Rev 12, A Brief History of Israel 63 BC - 1967

[abcdef]

28 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

I should ask before answering your post, are you claiming 70 A.D. kicked off certain events, or fulfilled certain portions of Matthew 24?   Are you blending Revelation 12 to some Scripture from Matthew 24?

No I wasn't, but I can.

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Matt 24, Mk 13, Lk 21, etc., are about,

The time leading up to the 70 AD destruction, wars, etc.

The time of the 70 AD destruction, The end of the age is the temple age. Jerusalem is under siege.

The time after the destruction, The times of the gentiles trampling, Lk 21:24.

And the restoration of Jerusalem. Matt 24:31 is the 5th trumpet that calls Israel to leave the gentile nations and reunify Israel in Jerusalem.

The presence/coming of Jesus as God was at the 70 AD destruction, but it wasn't a resurrection coming, that has yet to happen.

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Rev 12 covers about the same time period on the time line.

The fall of 70 AD Jerusalem, the fleeing, and the promise of the restoration of Jerusalem after the time in the gentile nations wilderness and the trampling of Jerusalem has been completed (1967).

[Revelation Man]

41 minutes ago, abcdef said:

Yes, it shows the people of Israel fleeing the Roman dragon nation.

But, it is the 70 AD fleeing and not future. The time of being in the gentile nations has ended.

How are you guys Christians and you can't hear the voice of the Holy Spirit? I do not get this !! THIS IS WAT TOO EASY TO PROVE for anyone to make this argument.

Jesus says when you see the AoD Daniel spoke of, flee unto the Mountains.

So, when was Daniels chapter 12 AoD referring to, PROBLEEM SOLVED.

Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

STARTING TO GET IT? Its just tat SIMPLE sir. The AoD happens at he VERY END when Daniels peoples (Jews) are DELIVERED, not SACKED as in 70 AD. And the dead are Raised AND judged (Rev. 20:4 judgment seat). 

 

Dan.12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Dan. 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Daniel is told to seal this book  until the TIME OF THE END (because its about the very END TIMES).......here we see a Time, Times and a HALF [Times] or 3.5 years being spoken of, the same as we see in Revelation 12, its not rocket science brother, you guys not only overthink it, you are not hearing this from the Holy Spirit, which means Satan sneaks in and whispers UNTRUTHS, and if we think Satan STOPS lying to us we are just fooling ourselves !! The Pharisees had great intellect, but the unlearned Disciples could see what they couldn't see, that Jesus was God come in the flesh. 

Dan. 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

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Rev. 12:1 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels. 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Satan is CAST DOWN at the 1260 mark of the 70th week. 

How can anyone not get this? You are not hearing this from God sir. Men are way to proud, just admit you are in error and thank God for shoeing you the light. We all start out in DARKNESS and we journey unto God's TRUTHS. Satan doesn't just stop tryin to deceive us sir. The bible is our Sword, but we have to use it properly, else Satan will use it to confuse us "Ye shall not surely die". 

If you refuse to admit this is the END TIMES then I cant help you, but God will have a problem with it, I can assure you, when we continue down a path we know is untrue, God has bog problems, He doesn't have a problem telling us, YOU ARE WRONG, now go this way, do this differently, that's what any parent does unto their children. 

The above idea you had has bee  proven incorrect. 

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

13 minutes ago, abcdef said:

No I wasn't, but I can.

----

Matt 24, Mk 13, Lk 21, etc., are about,

The time leading up to the 70 AD destruction, wars, etc.

The time of the 70 AD destruction, The end of the age is the temple age. Jerusalem is under siege.

The time after the destruction, The times of the gentiles trampling, Lk 21:24.

And the restoration of Jerusalem. Matt 24:31 is the 5th trumpet that calls Israel to leave the gentile nations and reunify Israel in Jerusalem.

The presence/coming of Jesus as God was at the 70 AD destruction, but it wasn't a resurrection coming, that has yet to happen.

-----

Rev 12 covers about the same time period on the time line.

The fall of 70 AD Jerusalem, the fleeing, and the promise of the restoration of Jerusalem after the time in the gentile nations wilderness and the trampling of Jerusalem has been completed (1967).

Ahhh, that makes it more clearer than what you're trying to say.   And I don't have an argument with your viewpoint because I agree many portions of Revelation have been fulfilled.

[Alive]

7 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

How are you guys Christians and you can't hear the voice of the Holy Spirit? I do not get this !!

Be careful--this crosses the line. Eschatology is not vital. Salvation is.

Because someone doesn't agree with your end time views you write that?

Not appropriate, brother.

[abcdef]

15 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

Ahhh, that makes it more clearer than what you're trying to say.   And I don't have an argument with your viewpoint because I agree many portions of Revelation have been fulfilled.

So just for a moment, let's consider that this theory is right, that the time of the woman in the wilderness is over and Jerusalem is restored.

The next question might be, "What happens after the time in the gentile nations is over and Jerusalem is restored?"

Rev 12 does not give us the answer to that question, but the answer is found in the parallel passages of the Revelation that also show the restoration of Jerusalem to Israel.

Most seem to take the viewpoint that the Revelation is exclusively future to our time, but we are now 1900 years in the future from the writing of the Revelation.

Some of the events that are shown are now clearly behind us.

Rev 12 is an example of this, showing the birth of Jesus, the ascension, and 70 AD destruction as the woman fleeing into the gentile nations. 

Understand, that this same timeline is shown over and over again.

[Guest kingdombrat]

Just now, abcdef said:

So just for a moment, let's consider that this theory is right, that the time of the woman in the wilderness is over and Jerusalem is restored.

The next question might be, "What happens after the time in the gentile nations is over and Jerusalem is restored?"

Rev 12 does not give us the answer to that question, but the answer is found in the parallel passages of the Revelation that also show the restoration of Jerusalem to Israel.

Most seem to take the viewpoint that the Revelation is exclusively future to our time, but we are now 1900 years in the future from the writing of the Revelation.

Some of the events that are shown are now clearly behind us.

Rev 12 is an example of this, showing the birth of Jesus, the ascension, and 70 AD destruction as the woman fleeing into the gentile nations. 

Understand, that this same timeline is shown over and over again.

My biggest [clue] I would considered like I have myself, is the mass worldwide beheading.   Revelation is clear the Beheaded will [Rule] with Christ during His Ultimate physical Reign upon Earth [New Jerusalem].   So, until there is a worldwide mass Beheading, everything at that point and beyond is all [Future].

[Revelation Man]

22 minutes ago, Alive said:

Be careful--this crosses the line. Eschatology is not vital. Salvation is.

Because someone doesn't agree with your end time views you write that?

Not appropriate, brother.

I acknowledged this so say I am out of here for good. You guys are such wussies on this site. Did Paul rebuke the Galatians? Yes he called them fools for trying to live under the law when coming to Christ by Faith. This man in in peril of not making heaven because he is living in the lies of Satan, and you guys are like Well, its OK to spread untruths, you guys are a joke. 

Now you can all get together and stroke each others ego, instead of rebuking untruths because you are too scared to call out untruths. And as a preacher of 35 years, please do not tell me that spreading untruths will not take you to hell. Good thing Paul didn't have someone like you trying to tell him how to preach and teach, because its quite evident you have no clue at all. 

People like you are what's wrong with the Church going astray, you have no understanding of leadership, yet you sit here and try to correct me. I know what I am doing, its quite evident you don't. 

Lets not REBUKE wrong ideas even though Paul COMMANDS us to do so and did so often. lets just pretend everything is OK. Lets allow people to talk about the RCC but lets not allow anyone to call them out. I have seen plenty of that on here. A 5th grader could prove this guy wrong, yet lets all be nice to him. 

Better yet, lets stop being wussies and call people out for untruths and lies !! NO, WE CAN'T DO THAT. Thus I don't want to be a part of this loony place any more. Lets the crazies run the show. One thin is for are, you are the worst mod I have ever seen on any board, most you never her from, but you want to try and teach a 35 year preacher what his job is, LOL. that's funny. 

[Guest kingdombrat]

10 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

I acknowledged this so say I am out of here for good. You guys are such wussies on this site. Did Paul rebuke the Galatians? Yes he called them fools for trying to live under the law when coming to Christ by Faith. This man in in peril of not making heaven because he is living in the lies of Satan, and you guys are like Well, its OK to spread untruths, you guys are a joke. 

Now you can all get together and stroke each others ego, instead of rebuking untruths because you are too scared to call out untruths. And as a preacher of 35 years, please do not tell me that spreading untruths will not take you to hell. Good thing Paul didn't have someone like you trying to tell him how to preach and teach, because its quite evident you have no clue at all. 

People like you are what's wrong with the Church going astray, you have no understanding of leadership, yet you sit here and try to correct me. I know what I am doing, its quite evident you don't. 

Lets not REBUKE wrong ideas even though Paul COMMANDS us to do so and did so often. lets just pretend everything is OK. Lets allow people to talk about the RCC but lets not allow anyone to call them out. I have seen plenty of that on here. A 5th grader could prove this guy wrong, yet lets all be nice to him. 

Better yet, lets stop being wussies and call people out for untruths and lies !! NO, WE CAN'T DO THAT. Thus I don't want to be a part of this loony place any more. Lets the crazies run the show. One thin is for are, you are the worst mod I have ever seen on any board, most you never her from, but you want to try and teach a 35 year preacher what his job is, LOL. that's funny. 

We can always learn no matter our Role within the Body of Christ.

 

And trust me, much of the Threads surrounding 70 A.D., where the time placement of John was at Patmos in relationship to a Mill Reign beginning off of the 70 A.D. has gotten me a bit steamed myself.   I've even been [WARNED] by the Mods and rightfully so [even though I disagree due to sometimes one can be pulled into such a position because the indoctrinations are blurred enough to blend together and you have to come against it].

 

I took a step back and sought God's guidance.   He led me to my Polycarp thread.   You can do the [same thing].   Just take a DEEP BREATH and chill for a bit.   Seek God in how to respond that is accordance to Worthy's Law and come back with a renewed focus.

 

You're in my Prayers, Brother!

[abcdef]

20 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

My biggest [clue] I would considered like I have myself, is the mass worldwide beheading.

Consider this, that the beheadings are about Israel and the Roman Caesar Empire beast nation and not about the planet.

When we read the OT, we see it from the eyes of the people of Israel exclusively. In Dan. 2:39, we see that the brass Greece Empire ruled over all the earth, but Greece did not rule the planet, only over all the earth of Israel.

When some read the Revelation, they switch viewpoints from being the earth of Israel to being the planet earth, which would not be consistent with the other scriptures.

This is the case with the idea of the beheadings, which is history.

The beheadings are references to John the Baptist who was resurrected with Jesus at the first resurrection in 33 AD.

John the Baptist is in heaven right now and reigning over the Pentecost kingdom on earth by His words recorded in the NT. Behold the Lamb of God.

 

20 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

   Revelation is clear the Beheaded will [Rule] with Christ during His Ultimate physical Reign upon Earth [New Jerusalem].   So, until there is a worldwide mass Beheading, everything at that point and beyond is all [Future].

Rev 19, does not show Jesus returning to this planet, it shows heaven opened and Jesus in heaven.

Rev 20, shows Jesus and the OT saints from the first resurrection in heaven ruling the Pentecost kingdom which is on earth at this present time.

Again, Rev 20, the same principle applies that this is centered on the people in the kingdom of Israel and not the planet. So when it says the Jesus rules for the mill period, it is talking about the Pentecost new covenant kingdom of Israel and not the planet.

All the imagery in the Rev centers on the people of Israel. The fire burning the grass and trees are images of unbelieving Israel after 70 AD (Fig trees, olive trees). The burning mountain is Jerusalem being covered up by the seas of the gentile nations.

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Rev 12 clearly shows the dragon is the Roman Empire and Caesar who are the beast nation that rules over the earth of Israel, and not the planet earth, for the time that Israel is scattered into the gentile nations.

All time lines must fit together. Dan. 2, Rev 12, Rev 20, are all showing the same timeline, based on the return to restore Jerusalem after the scattering.

 

 

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

3 minutes ago, abcdef said:

Consider this, that the beheadings are about Israel and the Roman Caesar Empire beast nation and not about the planet.

When we read the OT, we see it from the eyes of the people of Israel exclusively. In Dan. 2:39, we see that the brass Greece Empire ruled over all the earth, but Greece did not rule the planet, only over all the earth of Israel.

When some read the Revelation, they switch viewpoints from being the earth of Israel to being the planet earth, which would not be consistent with the other scriptures.

This is the case with the idea of the beheadings, which is history.

The beheadings are references to John the Baptist who was resurrected with Jesus at the first resurrection in 33 AD.

John the Baptist is in heaven right now and reigning over the Pentecost kingdom on earth by His words recorded in the NT. Behold the Lamb of God.

 

Rev 19, does not show Jesus returning to this planet, it shows heaven opened and Jesus in heaven.

Rev 20, shows Jesus and the OT saints from the first resurrection in heaven ruling the Pentecost kingdom which is on earth at this present time.

Again, Rev 20, the same principle applies that this is centered on the people in the kingdom of Israel and not the planet. So when it says the Jesus rules for the mill period, it is talking about the Pentecost new covenant kingdom of Israel and not the planet.

All the imagery in the Rev centers on the people of Israel. The fire burning the grass and trees are images of unbelieving Israel after 70 AD (Fig trees, olive trees). The burning mountain is Jerusalem being covered up by the seas of the gentile nations.

--

Rev 12 clearly shows the dragon is the Roman Empire and Caesar who are the beast nation that rules over the earth of Israel, and not the planet earth, for the time that Israel is scattered into the gentile nations.

All time lines must fit together. Dan. 2, Rev 12, Rev 20, are all showing the same timeline, based on the return to restore Jerusalem after the scattering.

 

 

 

The Jews did this to themselves.   It was their own fault.   It's not like Rome came without warning or that the Jews had been really quiet and good and Rome just bullied them.  So the Beheading does not match the 70 A.D. events.

Edited May 10, 2021 by kingdombrat