Polycarp

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, kingdombrat said:

chapter 5

If we please Him in this present world, we shall receive also the future world, according as He has promised to us that He will raise us again from the dead, and that if we live worthily of Him, [we shall also reign together with Him].

^

Polycarp tells us the Reign with Christ has [NOT YET HAPPENED] and he is writing in 150 A.D. 80 years after 70 A.D. that some believe kicks off the Reign.

 

So from Polycarp's letter alone, we know 70 A.D. was just a tragic event, not the Reign of Christ upon Earth!   

 

No wonder Preterist want nothing to do with Polycarp's Letter!

It proves them Wrong!

I liked that post where you stated along the lines of 'it was to be taken literal for the 70AD event but is only to be seen as spiritual for the future'.  

It is very difficult to argue with the 'wise in mans traditions of 'rightly' dividing' the bible.  I believe the realm that Satan most works in is the religious one, the pulpit, (setting in those false beliefs before truth comes along making it harder for those seeking to find)  and he has long been at work making sure 'the letter' of what is written as opposed to 'the spirit' of what is written is what is taught.  



I absolutely believe that God Almighty is sovereign but ANY question about that sets our mind in a different direction from what we should really be asked,  and that is What is Gods Plan?  

Just because God is and can and has and knows and etc,  DOESN'T negate the fact that God has a plan and BECAUSE it involves 'true love', by definition FREE WILL has to be 1000% afforded the other side and because of that,  'WHO God is and what He is capable of' doesn't really figure in BUT for what He allows of Himself and to REACH the goal He has set for His Kingdom and His creation/creatures.  

How many times does God make promises to Himself?  How many times does He think and feel one way and then let us see Him change His mind?  How many times doesn't He and He says, I have said it and it will come to pass? 

Speculation from pondering

God certainly told us A LOT, but then again very little.  But He obviously doesn't want robots or puppies so
Maybe, just maybe, HE set His plan to END as He deems, but is finding pleasure in  'the journey' we are making.  Watching and allowing us to do it all under our own control, stepping back and just keeping score, so to speak and stepping in to 'adjust' the game play every now and then to keep the end of the Plan as it should be.  


The Spirit leads in a much different way than JUST the words and the laws of language and the exact definitions and once we learn the first place the 'other side' infiltrated was the Scribes and we are being led by the Spirit, The Spirit of the Truth shines through.  To try to argue THAT TRUTH with one arguing THE LETTER OF what is written never ends well, not for me at least.  You have some GREAT first instincts though.     



 

[Guest kingdombrat]

35 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I liked that post where you stated along the lines of 'it was to be taken literal for the 70AD event but is only to be seen as spiritual for the future'. 

  I for one am not fooling myself to believe there is no significance to what took place in 70 A.D.   It was definitely Prophetic and served a Purpose for the Gospel of Christ and Reign of the Gentile era in Christ.   But there is no doubt that the Gentile Reign in Christ and Mill Reign [with all believers [Hebrew/Jews/Gentiles] in Christ are 2 separate Events.   And that is why I kept looking for Ancient Writings that either claimed we're in that Ultimate Reign with Christ or we are still awaiting that Reign.   And I believe John the Apostle's well known Disciple Polycarp, [delivers] the concrete proof that separate the idealism's.

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It is very difficult to argue with the 'wise in mans traditions of 'rightly' dividing' the bible.  I believe the realm that Satan most works in is the religious one, the pulpit, (setting in those false beliefs before truth comes along making it harder for those seeking to find)  and he has long been at work making sure 'the letter' of what is written as opposed to 'the spirit' of what is written is what is taught.

The argument between Preterism and Futurism is that one is clearly wrong, but it can still become a millstone around the neck, because slick believers in the wrong idealism can be as smooth as Satan was to Eve in the Garden!

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I absolutely believe that God Almighty is sovereign but ANY question about that sets our mind in a different direction from what we should really be asked,  and that is What is Gods Plan? 

Yes, when the Creation's own wisdom begins to ignore the Creator's Own Words, there will always be a False Doctrine that emerges.

Quote

Just because God is and can and has and knows and etc,  DOESN'T negate the fact that God has a plan and BECAUSE it involves 'true love', by definition FREE WILL has to be 1000% afforded the other side and because of that,  'WHO God is and what He is capable of' doesn't really figure in BUT for what He allows of Himself and to REACH the goal He has set for His Kingdom and His creation/creatures.  

But the key about God's Plan is we know what that Plan is.   We are just trying to place it in the timeline of chain of events.  But we can clearly see the [Signs] really becoming more apparent in our own lifetime.   When we realize what is happening, we know certain Idealism's are false that specifically claim [ALL] Prophecy is fulfilled.

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How many times does God make promises to Himself?  How many times does He think and feel one way and then let us see Him change His mind?  How many times doesn't He and He says, I have said it and it will come to pass? 

Christ said we have the Faith to move a Mountain (Spiritually/physically].   So, if our Faith that God has given unto us is [activated and used properly], then what series of events were already in motion, can become altered.

Example:

Little girl is dead.  The series of events leads to in a couple days a burial.   But Christ said, Awake, and when the little girl arose, the event to be buried in a couple days became an event for a later time in future.

 

Our Faith in God is no different and works the [same] way!

Quote

Speculation from pondering

God certainly told us A LOT, but then again very little.  But He obviously doesn't want robots or puppies so
Maybe, just maybe, HE set His plan to END as He deems, but is finding pleasure in  'the journey' we are making.  Watching and allowing us to do it all under our own control, stepping back and just keeping score, so to speak and stepping in to 'adjust' the game play every now and then to keep the end of the Plan as it should be. 

I believe the Holy Spirit connects many of the missing clues.   But I do love the fact that the Word of God is the greatest [Puzzle] ever assembled together.

Quote

 The Spirit leads in a much different way than JUST the words and the laws of language and the exact definitions and once we learn the first place the 'other side' infiltrated was the Scribes and we are being led by the Spirit, The Spirit of the Truth shines through.  To try to argue THAT TRUTH with one arguing THE LETTER OF what is written never ends well, not for me at least.  You have some GREAT first instincts though.     

Discernment, the Gift of the Holy Spirit is the most valuable Gift I've ever experienced and read about.  It literally saves lives from situations we might not understand and see coming that is bringing harm.   It is instant and 100% accurate.   And it will definitely alert us when we are trying to be deceived.

Edited May 13, 2021 by kingdombrat

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Nope. The land of the Israelites and the general area encompassed by Jerusalem at that time in Judah. I had to read a lot of the Tanakh to get all the inferences. They are fairly specific if a little hard to follow in our modern day thinking. That is the main essence of misunderstanding scripture. Read as a reader of the day with his/her mindset of ancient Mesopotamian thought and understanding. Otherwise you go off into 'flat earth' crazy-ville.

"Because you have kept My command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth."

Just the fact of the precise language, and the repeated idea in less than a sentence, in this section of Rev 3 should be enough to put aside any conclusion of a limited, local, bygone time. But we can go a step farther.

'whole world';  holos oikoumene 

Holos: all, the whole, entire, complete.

Oikoumene: the inhabited earth

'those who dwell on the earth'; katoikeó epi gé

Katoikeó: to inhabit,

Epi: upon

Ge: the earth, land

The idea of 'oikoumeme' is the inhabited Roman world. This stretches far beyond Jerusalem and Israel. 'Ge' is much broader;

"1093 gḗ –the earth, soil, land, region, country, inhabitants of a region.  properly, the physical earth; (figuratively) the "arena" we live in which operates in space and time which God uses to prepare us for eternity."

Jesus is saying 'the entire land under the day and night sky and all the people who dwell on that land'. I'll grant there could be some similarity to past events on a limited level and in a limited region, but that has nothing to do with the as yet unfulfilled condition of Rev 3:10.

One can certainly feel free to believe anything they wish but I don't see scripture supporting every doctrine.

 

[Justin Adams]

5 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Rev 3:10.

Sorry, but it is all about things that will shortly come to pass. Read it again and see how many times that is mentioned. It has nothing to do with our future. It is their future only.

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Exactly the same. His prophesy was to 'you and your people'. Revelation is a commentary on Daniel.

Truth. But it wasn't liturgical, religious, nationalistic Israel he was speaking to, it's the people of the faith of Israel, the seed of Abraham. Daniel wasn't commended for his lineage but his faith. 

Unless otherwise specified the context of scripture is one of eternity involving God's plan for the sanctified in Christ Jesus. This involves and is focused on the faithful and obedient people in the faith of our Father, the Spirit led Christ redeemed people who are heirs to the promises. This has nothing to do with a nation or religion and it never did.

[Diaste]

4 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Sorry, but it is all about things that will shortly come to pass. Read it again and see how many times that is mentioned. It has nothing to do with our future. It is their future only.

Shortly come to pass speaks to the rapid pace of occurrence within the sphere of influence, not a time/space moment.  Jesus is saying when it begins it will all come quickly and He is not pointing to a specific time, early or late, for that matter. 

Some point to the 'the time is at hand' as well to prove it was an ancient fulfillment but this isn't the case. The  time was at hand for the presentation of the Revelation of Jesus Christ to His servants, not the beginning of the fulfillment.

[Justin Adams]

Read Ken Gentry, 'When Jerusalem fell'. Or see his series on YouTube. Then tell me what you think.

[Justin Adams]

27 minutes ago, electlady said:

Well then, the Millennium has not happened yet!!

Yeshua came and judged the Jews and destroyed them in 70 AD. We have been in the 'millennium' since His Resurrection when He was seated at the Right Hand of God the Father. He is our High Priest/King and we are Kings and Priests on the earth and hopefully cooperate with Him and His Kingdom 'which is not of this earth'.

We rule and reign with Him and we do it on the earth since ALL POWER has been given to Him. That mean ALL POWER in the Cosmos - everywhere!

Yeshua can go wherever He pleases and has appeared in visions (and some say in person) to many thousands over the years. He is God. His Reign is EVERLASTING.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Uriah]

17 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Yeshua came and judged the Jews and destroyed them in 70 AD. We have been in the 'millennium' since His Resurrection when He was seated at the Right Hand of God the Father. He is our High Priest/King and we are Kings and Priests on the earth and hopefully cooperate with Him and His Kingdom 'which is not of this earth'.

We rule and reign with Him and we do it on the earth since ALL POWER has been given to Him. That mean ALL POWER in the Cosmos - everywhere!

Yeshua can go wherever He pleases and has appeared in visions (and some say in person) to many thousands over the years. He is God. His Reign is EVERLASTING.

We missed the Second Coming? This is preterist propaganda. Gentry has been debunked many times. 

[Justin Adams]

2 minutes ago, Uriah said:

We missed the Second Coming?

Clever misdirected ad hominem. 

Yeshua can do as He pleases, unless you do not believe in His Divinity like most pre-mils.