Polycarp

[Guest kingdombrat]

3 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

MY ONE-STRING BANJO.. and why misapplication of scripture's prophecy is all important to understand. We MUST see that these falsehood are NOT benign.

Yeshua reigns NOW. Over everything and everywhere!!

Below is the heart of all the fake end times stuff:

Tim Lahaye and Lindsay both say that Yeshua failed and will have to come back later. They sold millions of false prophecy books and so now it is taught from pulpits. “Hang on folk, we are defeated but soon the great sky elevator will take us away and the 1000 years begins”. They rob Christ of His Deity.

THIS IS ALL GARBAGE.

 If we do not want to ACT with His Spirit's empowerment, then we will let the world infect the church.
haSatan the opposer is tied up and his influence is restricted, as prophesied.
However, we might listen to the rhetoric of the deposed pantheons (the archons) and let them control us and our thoughts. (It is all smoke and mirrors!)

It is our choice in the matter. The reason it seems to be going to hell in a hand basket is due to us... We let it happen. Every day.  We continually look over our shoulders for the next Camping event. What a waste of time the dispensationalist ideas are.
Let us stop looking for a ‘beast’ and a ‘mark’ and a ‘tribulation’ and all the other pursuits that are a waste of time. Let us instead ACT on our salvation beliefs and evangelize the lost.

We are in the so called ‘millennium’ right now. Are we making the most of it? The pre-mil futurists want to push Yeshua’s Reign out to some distant event. This causes us to be lax and non effectual in day to day life. He has given us the tools. We have to pick them up and use them. NOW.

All that is necessary for evil to abound is for good men to do nothing. We often give credit to the fallen foe and say, 'satan made me do it' etc. This is just not true. We are the sinners and have listened to the wrong Gospel.  We will not stop sinning, but the point is, are we working towards  God’s Kingdom and pushing His True  Gospel?

"Evil people run even though no one is chasing them, but good people are as brave as a lion. The wicked are edgy with guilt, ready to run off even when no one's after them;"

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you”.

"And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus"

"And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

"we are more than victorious, more than conquerors because of our LORD JESUS CHRIST"

We Reign With Christ Now (1 Cor. 15:24-25; Rev. 5:9-10)
Kings and Priests now (Rev. 1:6) 
Reign in life through righteousness (Rom. 5:17)

“in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us”.

Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues

For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people.”

Do you not know that you yourselves are God's temple, and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

In Him the whole building is fitted together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in Him you too are being built together into a dwelling place for God in His Spirit.

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” 

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature”.

 

 

 

Polycarp tells us we have yet to enter into the Mill Reign because he was encouraging the church of Philipi to remain steady for that Promise will happen one day.   This was in 150 A.D.

 

Why would i believe we're in the mill Reign when Polycarp is a good indicator we've not yet arrived to that point?

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Josheb.

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

...

Jesus has come many times for many in many ways for many purposes. He came at Pentecost to bestow the Holy Spirit.

One must be careful to delineate between the Persons of the Godhead. They have individual roles and should NOT be confused. Yeshua` the Messiah has NOT returned, yet. The Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God) descended upon those gathered at Shavuot ("Pentecost" from the Counting of the Omer: for 50 days the omer is counted from Passover and the fiftieth day is Shavuot, the commemoration of the giving of the Law to the children of Israel). 

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

He came to Paul on the Damascus road.

Yes, He APPEARED in the sky to Sha'uwl ("Paul"), brighter than the sun at noon! However, again, this is NOT His "coming."

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

He came in judgment against Jerusalem in 70 AD.

This would have to be implied from some theological viewpoint. Nothing is said that HE would be the one to bring judgment against Yerushalayim.

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

He came in a vision to John.

GOD, the Father of Yeshua`, gave the vision to Yochanan; Yeshua` APPEARED to Yochanan in the vision.

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

He comes many times in many ways for many purposes. In Hebrews he is said to come for a salvation apart from sin. 

The millennium modern future-tempelists, rapturists, and pre-tribulationalists describe is a coming that is not apart from sin. Their own description of the millennial coming contradicts the stipulation of Hebrews 9:28. 

Actually, the passage says,

Hebrews 9:27-28 (KJV)

27 And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

This simply means that He shall appear a SECOND time without sin being the need or purpose for the coming, but His purpose this SECOND time will be for SALVATION, that is, RESCUE or DELIVERANCE, particularly for THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, as promised in prophecy! 

[DeighAnn]

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman,

Satan took what God said and by changing it ever so slightly, turned that Truth into a lie using basically the same words and just discarding what didn't fit his program.

"Yea, hath God said",  THIS IS OUR FIRST LESSON.  Let's see how well we are following it today.  


(REMEMBERING OF COURSE, At that moment, God allowing Satan to TEMPT Eve Satan was doing exactly as he wanted and in full control of what he was doing.  No need to say or bring up the 'sovernity' of God, because if we don't believe that, no point in calling yourself a Christian.  THE PURPOSE OF GODS PLAN OF SALVATION is FOR WHOMSOEVER WOULD.    That is what it is all about.  The only way we can arrive AT THAT TRUTH is to READ GODS WORD AS WRITTEN and not to take our own take on it, ESPECIALLY IF it changes WHAT IS WRITTEN.


Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven.

Man giving this a definition doesn't turn that verse into a lie AS A MATTER OF FACT calling it PROOF TEXTING is the lie because 

GOD CALLS IT  'here a little there a little',  AND that is what it is written and THAT IS WHAT GOD CALLS IT and that is how we have been told how READ IT... after of course... precept one precept.... 


Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He will appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

AND all who are alive and remaining at that time WILL BE CHANGED.  This has never happened PROVING HE has never returned.  

Not to mention  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the BRIGHTNESS  of His coming

CAN CHRIST RETURN AND THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING BE HID?  CAN CHRIST RETURN AND EVIL NOT BE DESTROYED?


When I heard  'HE has come many times'  I asked how can I believe that when that is not what is written and so WHAT/WHO do I believe.  Seeking out how the message was  crafted and found escape routes all over the place,  yet the message or the lasting impression,  HE COMES BACK TIME AND TIME and time AGAIN must ask  'HATH GOD SAID it OR HATH GOD NOT SAID it?'  God did not say it and God is specific about what that return will look and be and sound like. 

We do know the 'angel of the Lord' has made appearances, but not the Lord in person.  Of course we know He could have but that just
is NOT WRITTEN,  so that is not what is happening.


 

1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

1 Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time:

1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon Him; for He careth for you.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour

1 Peter 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

   

 

John 14:15 If ye love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth Me no more but ye see me because I live, ye shall live also.

 

The Spirit of the Word.  We don't let the letter of it turn the Spirit of it into a lie or we have learned nothing from the past.   



Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

JESUS has always been king.  But wait, here it says He is the prince of the kings of the earth.  So while overall 'statements of ALWAYS HAS BEEN' may be truthful, they don't hold true to how IT IS WRITTEN so it isn't how it should be taught, as that would be twisting the Spirit of the Word.  
 

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed Me to preach good tidings unto the meek; He hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, AND THE DAY OF VENGEANCE OF OUR GOD, to comfort all that mourn;

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.

He cometh with clouds and EVERY EYE shall see Him.  Literally.  

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 



 

[Alive]

Folks--let's keep in mind that if one disagrees with your POV, that isn't the same as coming against you as a person. Also please keep in mind that the subject is eschatology and not soteriology.

Your position on end times stuff does not define the totality of who you are---hold it loosely and not personally.

[Heleadethme]

49 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Bad translation. The Greek does not say "world"; it states "ages." Notice also you did not highly (underline of bold-face) the "now" of the verse. 

NOW, at the end of the ages..... 

The word is "aiōnōn," "kosmon." Only the old KJV and the Aramaic translations say "world." Even the NKJV corrected it. 

That's not relevant to what I'm trying to show.....the point is that as Jesus appeared visibly once (the first time) to die on the cross, He will appear visibly a second time.  It's not talking about an invisible coming such as a 'visitation' of judgment or the giving of the Holy Spirit.

2Th 1:7-11

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

His holy Spirit was already given at Pentecost, but at His second coming He will complete the good work that He began, of which Pentecost was only the earnest/down payment guaranteeing what is to come.

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

 

Consider this, too: Not all mentions of the words "save," "saved," or "salvation," have anything directly to do with salvation from sin. God saved the wandering Hebrews from Egypt. That did not mean they were saved from sin. He saved Lot from Sodom but that did not mean Lot was saved from his own sin. 

NOW, at the end of the ages, Jesus will come for a salvation apart from sin. That is what the first century Hebrews were told.  

We disagree on that take.....I dont believe you're rightly dividing that scripture.  The salvation that is being alluded to there is the salvation/redemption that redeems our mortal bodies.

Eph 1:14

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1Pe 1:5

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

 

If Jesus comes again in human appearance that will - by definition - be a localized phenomenon. Only if he comes in omnipresent form will people on all sides of the globe see him at the same time. Logic is our friend; a gift given to us by God, not something to be perversely denied as an invention of men. God may be extra-rational, but He is never irrational. 

Logic is not our friend....it denies the power of God and cannot know it.  The carnal mind is enmity with God.  Jesus appeared in His resurrected body to over 500 people at once......it won't be a problem for Him to bodily appear to the whole world at once.  Every eye will see Him.

1Co 15:6

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

[Guest kingdombrat]

15 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Logic is not our friend....it denies the power of God and cannot know it.  The carnal mind is enmity with God.  Jesus appeared in His resurrected body to over 500 people at once......it won't be a problem for Him to bodily appear to the whole world at once.  Every eye will see Him.

1Co 15:6

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

This same [Omnipresence and Omnipotence] is also revealed in Genesis:

 

This interpretation is telling us it's the [SAME] LORD on Earth while also in Heaven working together.

 

24And the LORD caused to rain down upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire, from the LORD, from heaven.

כדוַֽיהֹוָ֗ה הִמְטִ֧יר עַל־סְדֹ֛ם וְעַל־עֲמֹרָ֖ה גָּפְרִ֣ית וָאֵ֑שׁ מֵאֵ֥ת יְהֹוָ֖ה מִן־הַשָּׁמָֽיִם:

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by kingdombrat

[Alive]

7 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Logic is not our friend....it denies the power of God and cannot know it.  The carnal mind is enmity with God.  Jesus appeared in His resurrected body to over 500 people at once......it won't be a problem for Him to bodily appear to the whole world at once.  Every eye will see Him.

1Co 15:6

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

I disagree--logic is our friend and ally and much more. Doing a full study of the the 'Word' translated as such from Logos in John 1:1 shows that Jesus Christ is among other things the logical reason and expression of all things.

We are made both in His image and as those that 'image' Him.

Logic is our friend and a real part of the fabric of who we are--ontologically.

Logic is part of our being.

Having said this, we are imperfect imagers, can be perfectly logical and perfectly wrong.

:-)

[Alive]

29 minutes ago, electlady said:

In my opinion, end-time beliefs can most certainly affect salvation if the end result may be that of deception when the Antichrist appears.

—electlady 

That is a discussion for another thread. Please note--I did not mention end time beliefs were connected to salvation--in fact it was implied, if anything, the opposite.

[Justin Adams]

33 minutes ago, electlady said:

In my opinion, end-time beliefs can most certainly affect salvation if the end result may be that of deception when the Antichrist appears.

—electlady 

And what is that 'antichrist' you refer to? Give me scriptures please.