Heaven

[JohnR7]

Jesus tells us to pray: Our Father who art in Heaven... Does this mean God is in Heaven and somehow we are to pray to Him there in Heaven. Jesus goes on to pray: Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. I was in a church where we prayed this prayer every Sunday. So we are to pray that Earth is to become as Heaven is. But how can we know anything about Heaven if we have never been there and how do we know if the Earth is becoming as Heaven is. Although Paul tells us: "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven" (2Cor12:2) What does this mean to be caught up into Heaven?  He talks about: "things that man is not permitted to tell".  So this is my question: what does this mean in 2Cor12:4 that there was a man who knew things that he was not permitted to tell?  Why would God reveal things he did not want people to be told?  

[Willa]

16 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

Jesus tells us to pray: Our Father who art in Heaven... Does this mean God is in Heaven and somehow we are to pray to Him there in Heaven. Jesus goes on to pray: Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. I was in a church where we prayed this prayer every Sunday. So we are to pray that Earth is to become as Heaven is. But how can we know anything about Heaven if we have never been there and how do we know if the Earth is becoming as Heaven is. Although Paul tells us: "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven" (2Cor12:2) What does this mean to be caught up into Heaven?  He talks about: "things that man is not permitted to tell".  So this is my question: what does this mean in 2Cor12:4 that there was a man who knew things that he was not permitted to tell?  Why would God reveal things he did not want people to be told?  

Yes Jesus and Father God are in heaven.  We pray that God's will may be done here on earth just as it is being done in heaven.  Praying that His Kingdom will come on earth is praying that His will be done on all the earth as perfectly as it is being done in heaven. We are part of His Kingdom when we have submitted ourselves to obey Him as our ruler and King.  Jesus will also have an earthly kingdom and reign on earth in Israel for 1000 years.

We know about what the Bible describes heaven to be like.  Read Revelation 4. Paul was caught up into the 3rd heaven.  It may have been a vision, I don't know.  Daniel also Had been shown things he was not permitted to tell.  John told us more details of some of those things in the Revelation.   Ezekiel also told us of some of the things he saw in heaven.  They described archangels, for instance.  The second heaven is that which we can see--the air and space in the sky.  The third heaven may be beyond that or even another dimension.  We don't know.  We just know there will be praise and worship there.  

[HAZARD]

51 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

Jesus tells us to pray: Our Father who art in Heaven... Does this mean God is in Heaven and somehow we are to pray to Him there in Heaven. Jesus goes on to pray: Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. I was in a church where we prayed this prayer every Sunday. So we are to pray that Earth is to become as Heaven is. But how can we know anything about Heaven if we have never been there and how do we know if the Earth is becoming as Heaven is. Although Paul tells us: "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven" (2Cor12:2) What does this mean to be caught up into Heaven?  He talks about: "things that man is not permitted to tell".  So this is my question: what does this mean in 2Cor12:4 that there was a man who knew things that he was not permitted to tell?  Why would God reveal things he did not want people to be told?  

Hi John

 

 

Heaven is a created place, Heaven is where God lives now, until He comes to the Earth to be with mankind forever.

 

Isaiah 45:18, For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: He even has an army which follows Him; Revelation 19:14, And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

Heaven  is in the Northern part of the universe, for Lucifer, now Satan said;

 

Isiah 14: 12, How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer,7 son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
   

V. 13, For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, IN THE SIDES OF THE NORTH:

 

Heaven is so far away it has not been found or seen by man from the earth even by our most powerful telescopes, even Hubble?

Many Scriptures teach that Heaven is inhabited. (1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chron. 18:18; Matt.18:10; 22:30; 24:36; Rev. 12:12; 13:6).

Armies and hosts of Heaven are mentioned an number of times as seen in these passages and in Dan. 4:35; Luke 2:13; Rev. 19:14. These inhabitants are listed in part as common angels, archangels, seraphim, cherubim and other spirit beings. Heavenly bodies are mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:48-49. Rejoicing in Heaven is referred to by the inhabitants in Heaven (Ps. 96:11; 148:1, 4; Isa.44:23; Rev. 12:12). 8. Paul speaks of "the invisible things" in Heaven as being like the visible things on Earth; that is the things in Heaven are just like the things on Earth. (Rom. 1:20). The word "things" is used in many passages in referring to realities in Heaven. (Phil. 2:10; Col 1:16-20; Heb. 8:12; 9:23). We know from Scripture that in Heaven there are Cities (Rev.21), mansions (John 14:1-3), trees, rivers (Rev.22:1-3), fountains of water (Rev. 7:17), food (Ex.16:4; Ps.78:25: 105:40; John 6:31-51: Luke 22:16, 18, 30; Rev. 2:7, 17: 19:1-10; 22:1-3).

Animals are mentioned as being in Heaven in these following Scriptures; (2 Kings 2:11-12; 6:13-17; Zech. 1:8-11: 6:1-8; Rev. 19:11-14, 21: Rom. 1:20).

All these things are mentioned, furniture, tongs (Isa.6:6), fire and coals (Isa. 6:6; Rev.8:5) censer and incense (Rev. 8:4-6), smoke (Rev. 8:4; 15:8), musical instruments (Rev. 5:8; 14:1-5; 15:2-4), clothes (Dan. 7:9; Rev. 1:13; 6:9-11), stones (Rev. 2:17), books (Rev. 3:5; 5:1-7; 10:1-11; 20:11-15), Also mentioned in Scripture are, vials or bowls, crowns, thunderings, lightnings, clouds, lamps, a sea of glass, singing, worship, palm trees, temples, silence, so there must also be noise at other times, trumpets, hail, mountains, keys and chains, measuring sticks, olive trees, the ark of the testament, doors, posts, girdles, pearls, diamonds and other precious stones, walls, gates, gold in abundance, streets, fruits, banquets, and many other inumerable things.

If the invisible things in the heavenlies are clearly seen by the things on Earth, as Paul taught in Rom. 1:20, then we have a right to believe that there are in Heaven the same kind of things that we have on Earth. We have no right to make an exception of any good thing that God created and intended for man to have before the fall.

 

Revelation 12:12, Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, (PLURAL) and ye that dwell in them (PLURAL). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
After 20 years of studying the Scriptures trying to disprove them, and failing to do so, I found these Scriptures which teach that there is life out there in the heavenlies.
Colossians 1:16, For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (THRONES, DOMINIONS, PRINCIPALITIES. He created them all TO BE INHABITED) .Isaiah 45:18, For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited:

 

[JohnR7]

15 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Heaven  is in the Northern part of the universe, for Lucifer, now Satan said;

 

Isiah 14: 12, How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer,7 son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

The Bible uses the word Cosmos meaning the natural order of the Earth and the Universe. The word "fallen" has to do with a camel. They ride high and have a lot of the wealth of the world. Today we would use the word commerce. They can be rich one day and the next have that all taken away from them. Today we would talk about people who have fallen off of their high and mighty horse. 

[JohnR7]

36 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

He created them all TO BE INHABITED

You and Elon Musk would get along good. He thinks all he would need to do is nuke the poles on Mars to turn it into an inhabitable planet. 

[Whyme]

Colossians 3

3 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

[Tzephanyahu]

Hi @JohnR7

Great questions.

Heaven is a literal place above us.  Technically speaking in the connotative term for the realm above the firmament, as the Creator called the firmament “heaven” in Genesis 1.

Now, as for “thy Kingdom come…”. The Messiah was speaking about the literal Kingdom of Yahweh coming to Earth – descending from Heaven.  This Kingdom is more commonly known as New Jerusalem or Zion.  This is the whole message and point of the gospel “Repent, for the Kingdom is at hand”.  Why are we to be saved? What for?  To live, enjoy and rule in the Kingdom – New Jerusalem.   Right now we live as a kingdom of God’s children but we don’t have a home – we are scattered and have a sense of longing.  However, when New Jerusalem arrives, then the Kingdom has truly come and we will be united with Him in a very real way.  You can read more about the New Jerusalem in the latter chapters of Isaiah and at the end of Revelation but it’s strewn throughout prophecy really.

As for Paul being lifted up into the Third Heaven, you won’t understand this phrase or others such as “Heaven of Heavens” and “the highest Heaven” unless you first understand Biblical Cosmology.  For a brief summary describing Biblical Cosmology and our recently emerging understanding of it, check out this guide here. 

I hope that helps in some way but feel free to ask any more questions if you have them.

Peace. 

[johnthebaptist]

12 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Jesus tells us to pray: Our Father who art in Heaven... Does this mean God is in Heaven and somehow we are to pray to Him there in Heaven. Jesus goes on to pray: Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. I was in a church where we prayed this prayer every Sunday. So we are to pray that Earth is to become as Heaven is. But how can we know anything about Heaven if we have never been there and how do we know if the Earth is becoming as Heaven is. Although Paul tells us: "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven" (2Cor12:2) What does this mean to be caught up into Heaven?  He talks about: "things that man is not permitted to tell".  So this is my question: what does this mean in 2Cor12:4 that there was a man who knew things that he was not permitted to tell?  Why would God reveal things he did not want people to be told?  

Actually, you asked more than one quetion. Let me address one: "But how can we know anything about Heaven if we have never been there?" If heaven were a place, then you right - we haven't been there. But if heaven is the peace of mind we get when we repent of our sin (Matthew 4:17), then we can find out by repenting of our sin.

[Who me]

On 5/24/2021 at 2:40 AM, JohnR7 said:

Why would God reveal things he did not want people to be told?  

 

Because not everyone is at the same degree of maturity.

[Whyme]

18 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

Actually, you asked more than one quetion. Let me address one: "But how can we know anything about Heaven if we have never been there?" If heaven were a place, then you right - we haven't been there. But if heaven is the peace of mind we get when we repent of our sin (Matthew 4:17), then we can find out by repenting of our sin.

I always wondered if we had a piece of heaven in our heart. Maybe its the holy Spirit.  I have a treasure in my heart, maybe its God given faith, i dont what it is exactly but its mine and makes me happy.