Who Was The Beast In The Book Of Revelation?

[The Light]

On 7/6/2021 at 9:55 AM, abcdef said:

Take another look at the nations that rule over the people of Israel in Dan. 2 and Dan. 7.

These are nations that all have more than one ruler, but are in each case still pictured as one individual beast nation.

The beast nations are spoken of as "he" even though it encompasses several or many rulers, especially when it comes to the last beast which is Rome (iron). 

The image of the 7-8 heads that rule are shown in Rev 17, show that the beast nation has more than one ruler. So the time of the beast is not just one person, but is many lifetimes.

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The beast nation that ascends out of the abyss is Rome.

The sea beast Rome dies in 476 AD ish and comes out of the abyss in 1929 when the Bishop of Rome returns to sit on the seat of the beast, exactly where he was 2000 years ago.

Sorry, but you just don't understand. The first beast is Nimrod. 

Ecc 1:9

9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

He is the Assyrian. He is the King of Babylon. He suffers the deadly wound of the sword and will live again.

How is it that the world understands these things and yet Christians don't . What happens in Ghost Busters? What do you the think that the movie the Mummy is all about?

Nimrod is the answer to every single scripture that talks about the Antichrist. If you are looking for a nation to come out of the abyss, you will be looking forever.

[abcdef]

9 hours ago, The Light said:

Sorry, but you just don't understand. The first beast is Nimrod. 

The first beast nation of Dan. 7:4 is Babylon.

The first beast nation of Rev 13:1-2 is Rome.

Show me the beast that you say is Nimrod.

 

9 hours ago, The Light said:

Ecc 1:9

9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

This was true when Solomon said it, but now we have cars, planes, rockets, organ transplants, and a new covenant through the blood of Jesus. 

 

9 hours ago, The Light said:

He is the Assyrian. He is the King of Babylon.

The statue of Dan. 2 showing the iron nation proves that the Antichrist is Rome and Caesar and can be no other entity.

 

9 hours ago, The Light said:

He suffers the deadly wound of the sword and will live again.

Nimrod will be resurrected with the evil souls at the end of this planet, but he won't be back as a person.

Rome is the beast that is killed by the sword. Not a individual person.

 

9 hours ago, The Light said:

How is it that the world understands these things and yet Christians don't .

The world does not understand the things of the spirit and cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned, 1 Cor 2:14.

 

9 hours ago, The Light said:

What happens in Ghost Busters?

If Nimrod shows up, who are you going to call?

Will he be a full torso vaporous apparition? 

 

9 hours ago, The Light said:

What do you the think that the movie the Mummy is all about?

Fantasy

 

9 hours ago, The Light said:

Nimrod is the answer to every single scripture that talks about the Antichrist.

The Antichrist is Caesar and the Bishop of Rome.

Not fantasy, reality for 2000 years.

 

9 hours ago, The Light said:

If you are looking for a nation to come out of the abyss, you will be looking forever.

The beast nation came out of the abyss in 1929, when the Vatican became a nation again.

The Caesar/Bishop of Rome returned to the seat of the beast where he was 2000 years ago.

[The Light]

On 7/8/2021 at 10:05 AM, abcdef said:

The first beast nation of Dan. 7:4 is Babylon.

The first beast nation of Rev 13:1-2 is Rome.

Show me the beast that you say is Nimrod.

2 Thes 2

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

First off, that wicked will not be revealed until he that letteth be taken out of the way. We can certainly tell that this is NOT A NATION. It is a man.

I can show you how we can be sure who the Antichrist is, but you will not understand the scriptures. That's apparent because you think that he is a nation. If you could understand the following scriptures, you would be able to understand why the first beast, the Antichrist, is Nimrod.

Isaiah 14

3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

If you understood verse 8, you would understand why the king of Babylon that is spoken of, has to be Nimrod.

Isa 2

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Verse 16 tell us that it is a man and not a nation that made the earth tremble.

On 7/8/2021 at 10:05 AM, abcdef said:

 

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[abcdef]

11 hours ago, The Light said:

2 Thes 2

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Yes, this is speaking about one person. But it does not refer to him here as a beast.

Understand the the Antichrist is the king/leader of the Dan. 7 fourth beast nation. And he is just not one person that rules over the beast nation, he is one of many "heads" of the iron  4th beast nation. The life of the Dan. 7, 4th beast nations must last through the life of the 4th beast, the break of the nation into the 10 horns, and then the little horn devours 3 of its's companion nations, which takes centuries.

The Antichrist of Paul's time was Caesar and Rome. This was not completely confirmed to Israel, that the Dan.2 iron and the Dan. 7-4th beast were Rome, until Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in the 70 AD time period. 

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Titus, Caesar, Rome.

Caesar is Rome, Rome is Caesar. (Man is God)

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Paul wrote before Jerusalem fell to Caesar and Rome in 70 AD.

An event that was 10-20 years away.

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, 

The Holy Spirit left Jerusalem when Christians followed the prophecies of Jesus  about the fall of Jerusalem and the temple and fled before the 70 AD destruction.

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The gospel consumes the souls of the Roman Empire, just as the kingdom consumes the standing statue of Dan. 2. Eventually the Roman Empire becomes "Christian". 

The brightness of His coming is the stone of Dan. 2 striking the statue and is broken down into chaff and wheat. So the destruction of the beast nation happens when the stone strikes the statue when Jesus comes for the kingdom at the resur/rapt, 2nd resurrection.

So it is not Titus Caesar and the Roman Empire who is destroyed by the brightness of His coming, but is the future end time 4th beast Rome and the image Caesar, the Bishop of Rome.

Rome has lasted centuries, changed form, but is to this day, a kingdom and power to be considered. 

It's power over the people of Israel ended when Jerusalem was restored. (That is why he must deceive the kings of the east to destroy restored Jerusalem, because he is only the image Caesar/Empire) 

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

First off, that wicked will not be revealed until he that letteth be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit dwells in people.

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

We can certainly tell that this is NOT A NATION. It is a man.

Yes, in this passage it is a man, but he is not in this passage spoken of as a beast.

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

I can show you how we can be sure who the Antichrist is,

OK, show me.

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

but you will not understand the scriptures.

I have come to believe, that we really just know what God has revealed to us.

We seek God, but it is up to Him, what He reveals to us.

By His grace and mercy we understand that Jesus is God's Son and that He loves us, and gave His life for our sins.

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

That's apparent because you think that he is a nation.

The beasts are nations, the Antichrist is the head of the nation.

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

If you could understand the following scriptures, you would be able to understand why the first beast, the Antichrist, is Nimrod.

There are many "Antichrists".

Satan, Cain, Nebuchadnezzar, Antiochus, Judas, Caesar.

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You still haven't shown me a scripture that shows Nimrod as a beast.

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

Isaiah 14

3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

If you understood verse 8, you would understand why the king of Babylon that is spoken of, has to be Nimrod.

Sorry, I just don't see how v 8 shows Nimrod. 

The Babylon of Isaiah's day was a long time after Nimrod with different leaders and rulers.

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

Isa 2

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Verse 16 tell us that it is a man and not a nation that made the earth tremble.

 

Could this king of Babylon do any thing without a nation behind him?

The beasts are nations. The descriptions of the beasts are on a national scale of centuries and not necessarily of one individual's lifetime period.

 

[The Light]

49 minutes ago, abcdef said:

/Sorry, I just don't see how v 8 shows Nimrod. 

 

As I said, you would not understand verse 8. If you did understand verse 8, you would understand why the beast is Nimrod.

Maybe the verses of Jerimiah 10 could help you understand the verses of Isaiah 14.

2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

I really don't think you understand what is going on in the world. The world is looking for their savior and it is not Jesus the Christ. Maybe this will help.

The Eye.

Maybe this will help.

Left eye

Maybe this will help.

Right eye

How is it that the world knows what is going to happen, and are looking for their false savior and most Christians are unable to see what is coming on the world.

Nimrod is the Antichrist and the 1st beast of Revelation.

Edited July 11, 2021 by The Light

[Dennis1209]

On 6/5/2021 at 11:52 AM, Diaste said:

Yeah...NO. This is false.

Might as well let mankind override the truth of scripture. It's what the church is best at.

The Preterists will swarm this one.

Yeah, it reeks of preterist. It makes no sense discussing or debating a predetermined viewpoint. I cannot even convince my wife that the earth is flat 

[Alive]

40 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Yeah, it reeks of preterist. It makes no sense discussing or debating a predetermined viewpoint. I cannot even convince my wife that the earth is flat 

Is your point of view determined? Or is it ever learning?

Nobody that has posted as far as I know is a full-preterist.

If anyone holds the position that some of what Jesus talked about happened in 70AD, then that person is a partial pret. It becomes a matter of degree.

If Revelation was penned before 70AD--and there is a very good argument that it was--then this opens up a bunch more stuff that needs to be considered. Isn't it a good idea to allow ourselves the opportunity to further study. To question why we believe what we do and how we came to believe it?

Reading scripture through a predetermined construct of ideas will always result in those scriptures looking like they support the construct....the construct may not be true.

Can we at least agree on this and go on to converse?

Edited July 11, 2021 by Alive
add thoughts

[WilliamL]

5 hours ago, Alive said:

Nobody that has posted as far as I know is a full-preterist.

Those who believe we are already in the Millennium, that Rev. 20:4 is now taking place -- and some here have done so-- are full preterists, as I understand the term.

5 hours ago, Alive said:

If anyone holds the position that some of what Jesus talked about happened in 70AD, then that person is a partial pret. It becomes a matter of degree.

I hate the term "partial preterist," because there is no real way of nailing down what that means. Different people have widely different views, so this term only leads to confusion IMHO. For example, I would not agree with your definition above.

[WilliamL]

On 7/6/2021 at 10:14 PM, abcdef said:

On 7/6/2021 at 1:21 PM, WilliamL said:

Jesus is a king, indwelt by His Father.

Jesus is the Father.

Monophysitism: Christ did not have a dual nature. Problems with that doctrine are numerous. Beginning with, Jesus often addressed the Father as being another one from Himself.

On 7/6/2021 at 10:14 PM, abcdef said:

Just like the iron nation in Dan. 2, the 4th beast is continual, with a continuing line of kings over centuries.

In this we agree.

On 7/6/2021 at 10:14 PM, abcdef said:

On 7/6/2021 at 1:21 PM, WilliamL said:

Nebuchadnezzar was indwelt by the spiritual sar of the Chaldean nation.

Show me where it says that.

Daniel 10:13, 20-21 speak of the spiritual sarim of Persia, Greece, and Israel. So it is no real stretch to accept that there are like ones who ruled/rule over Chaldeo-Babylon and Rome. For those in the know, these are the 70 heavenly rulers over the nations in the councils of heaven. Job 1 and Psalm 82, among other scriptures, speak of them.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, Alive said:

Is your point of view determined? Or is it ever learning?

 

Oddly enough and contrary to my previous position pov may indeed be determined to a greater or lesser degree. In fact we just may be under a form of determinism affecting everyone. Possibly this arranges our relationships, vocations, where we live, how we live, etc. 

Not to the level of robotic control but exercised for a grand purpose to further that unseen plan, and we don't even realize it. 

Maybe. Information does point in that direction.