Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, missmuffet said:

But Jesus Christ is now glorified in heaven and has been given this information by the Father. 

You could be right since the Father and Son are one. Not sure how that info could be kept secret from the Son, that being the case.

We still won't know.

[OneLight]

18 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Yep. And he said it would happen in the generation of those to whom he was speaking when he said immediately after the tribulation. 

That is where that theory looses a lot of credibility.   It's not who Jesus was speaking to, but who He was speaking about.  Who is the "fig tree" that puts forth its leaves?  Many agree that this is Israel, as when Israel became a nation again in 1948.

Matthew 24:32-35

Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.  So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!  Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

What are "these things" they will see?  Everything in the beginning of the chapter Jesus spoke of.

Matthew 24:3-31

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.  For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.  All these are the beginning of sorrows.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.  And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.  Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.  And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.  But he who endures to the end shall be saved.  And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.  Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.  And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!  And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.  For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.  And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it.  For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.  See, I have told you beforehand.

“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.   For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.  For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

I had asked this in previous threads and received no answers.  I'll ask again.  Was all the above fulfilled by the time AD 70 came around?

[R. Hartono]

On 6/14/2021 at 2:15 AM, TrueGospel said:

The Word of God says that Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation.

Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, John 17:15

Matthew 24:29-31 King James Version

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

 Before the Real Jesus Christ comes back: Great earthquake that shakes Earth and Heaven, sun shall be turned into darkness, moon into blood, stars shall withdraw their shining, heaven rolled like a scroll, every mountain and island moved out of their places, great hail out of heaven pelting on some of Satan's children on earth.

 

Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 38:19-23, Joel 2:10-11, Joel 2:30-32, Haggai 2:6, 21, Matthew 24:29-34, Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:24-29, Mark 13:31, Acts 2:19-20, Luke 21:25-33 and Hebrews 12:26-28, Revelation 6:12-17, Compare Daniel 7:13-14, 27, Ezekiel 13:13, Revelation 11:15-19, Revelation 16:17-21

 

Joel 3:16-21 "16The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel."

 

 

If you are interested in freedom from sin and how do we receive the Holy Spirit? read below.
After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.

1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)


15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Now I will be preaching about how to receive the Holy Spirit and be 100% going to Heaven.

First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires. When you pray to God to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or sinful desires (Romans 6:6-7 and Galatians 5:24), Satan will intervene and extremely tempt you in watching the TV. But if it’s God’s will and if you are one of God’s elects, you will overcome it and God will destroy all your evil desires of watching TV. After God has destroyed all your evil desires of watching TV and if you are one of God’s elects, you receive the joy of the Holy Spirit for about 40 minutes. After the joy wears off, all existence of boredom no longer exists and you no longer burn out (psychology) anymore. That is when you have received the Holy Spirit.

Then it’s by the grace of God that he forgives you of your sins, as you confess and repent of your sins throughout your life which is called sanctification. But you can watch Christian stuff that don’t have sins (Like sermons) because that helps you grow more mature as a Christian spiritually and for more information about this sermon, go to spreadthegospel59.wordpress.com then go to
The short version of “To be free from sin (sin deceives and hurts everyone) and how do we receive the Holy Spirit?”

Why does God hate sin? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that “you were bought with a price” (1 Corinthians 6:20; 7:23)? | GotQuestions.org
Sin Will Never Make You Happy
(What does the Bible say about hypocrisy? | GotQuestions.org)
Gives thanks to God, that you are free from sin (sin deceives=never satisfied no matter how many times you do it,
gives pain, makes you guilty, go from bad to worse)
if you are one of God’s elect, to fight off self-pity is to give thanks to God for everything. What does the Bible say about self-pity? | GotQuestions.org
Is eternal security a “license” to sin? | GotQuestions.org

The reason why am hated for no reason since I were physically born and never fit in is because am one of God’s elects. (John 15:18-19)


Just so you know Jesus had to carry all of God’s elects sins and endure the punishment for God’s elects sins which is Hellfire spiritually, which is extreme love and mercy.
Go to the bottom website, for better explanation.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/jesus-eternal-punishment-hours/

 

On 6/14/2021 at 2:17 AM, Justin Adams said:

It all mostly happened around 70 AD. Read Josephus' account along with Revelation. "these things must shortly come to pass". Same as Yeshua said in Matt 24. So they did escape to Pella and not a single believer was killed.

 

On 6/14/2021 at 3:35 AM, DeighAnn said:

How is it 'shortly' is to be STRICKLY followed and '1000' years is NOT, even to the point of being doubly wrong by now?  

How is it a prophecy is counted as 'fulfilled' when only parts of 'what is written' to be fulfilled took place? 

Who is it the whole world worshipped after in 70AD?  Does Josehpus give the names of the two witnesses who were killed?  Does Josephus' tell of anyone seeing them come back alive and be taken to heaven?  Does he tell what it was like to BE CHANGED when Christ returned?  Or what it was like to see  Christ coming as Lord of lords and King of kings? 


WHAT all does he tell of the Lords return?  DID every knee bow?  Did His feet touch the mount of Olives?  Did the landscape completely change?  Have the nations been going to WORSHIP HIM ever since then?  

Or was just the temple destroyed? Like Christ told us would happen BEFORE the end times?  




Am I correct in that you believe ALL this took place?    I do agree with all the BOLDED parts having taken place so don't need acknowledgement on that but the rest, I would like a yes or no on, if you would help me out here.  

Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Matthew 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Matthew 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Matthew 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

Matthew 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

Matthew 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Matthew 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

Matthew 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?



 

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.

Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Matthew 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Matthew 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

Matthew 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

Matthew 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



No matter what THEY believe God knew it wasn't the END and wouldn't be for at least 2000 or so years that we know of RIGHT?  Did ANYTHING change in the rest of the world when the temple was destroyed?  Did all the 'nations' start worshipping God as GOD and leave their gods behind?  

Who was 'taken' and who was 'left' and WHO TOOK THEM?  and what happen to those who were 'left'?  

Were the 'elect' gathered by the angels?

What did Josephus say about JESUS coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory?   

AND THEN WHERE DID HE GO?  Why isn't He still here?  


Some questions about Marks statements of that time

 

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
Mark 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

AGAIN, I agree this took place, and it took place in 70 AD  IT IS WHAT FOLLOWS that I have questions about
 

Mark 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,

Mark 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Mark 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

Mark 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mark 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

Mark 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.

SURELY THIS IS going to be/or was   A BIG DEAL

Does Josephus tell anything about the HOLY SPIRIT speaking through people ?  How many does he speak about?  Does he tell who turned in family members to have them put to death?
 

Mark 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Does Josephus tell who ENDURED TO THE END AND WAS SAVED?

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Does Josephus tell EXACTLY where he stood?  (so curious to know)  And what it must have been like to see Christ returning in the clouds with an army with Him and to see Satan put down.  

 

Mark 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

Mark 13:16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

Mark 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Mark 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Josephus MUST TELL exactly how the 'days were shortened'.  WHAT did that look like?  
 

Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:


Does Josephus tell HOW MANY people claiming to be 'CHRIST' were walking around at the time?  Were they doing miracles?

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

How does Josephus DESCRIBE the 'SIGNS AND WONDERS' that took place?  Did he say that he himself WAS SEDUCED and now believed the one who was claiming to be Christ WAS?
 

Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
 

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

WHY did NOT Jesus have any ANGELS or MESSENGERS write anything to have put in the WORD OF GOD?  WEIRD
 

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

Does Josephus tell what it was like to SEE the stars of heaven fall?  Do he compare it to Sodom at all?  

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mark 13:27 And then shall He send his angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

NOW this is an event that must have been AWESOME to behold.  How does he describe it?
 

Mark 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

Mark 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

SO obviously you believe that ALL THOSE THINGS TOOK PLACE, correct?  

WHAT is left to come?  Just the dumping out of the bowls?  

 

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Mark 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Mark 13:34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

So I take it that the 'FAR JOURNEY' wasn't really that far.  Were there any commandments given on how to get us from then to now?  


 

Mark 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

Mark 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Its true the 2nd coming of Jesus to rule the world Will happen after the great tribulation.

However, the wise virgins are taken to the Feast of the Bridegroom but the Foolish virgins are LEFT BEHIND ......sad sad sad as God will serve the world with Wormwood coffee free of charge.

 

[Diaste]

11 hours ago, The Light said:

Making that part of the conversation changes nothin, if you understand what is being talked about. The day of the Lord will not take the believers by surprise. The believers will be the Jews, as the Gentile Church will already be in heaven. The Jews will be fully aware that Jesus is returning at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. Part of Israel will have their blindness removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Aside from the natural olive tree the unnatural branches cannot be grafted in. Nothing to graft to. The natural olive tree is the Israel of God, the seed of Abraham, of which everyone in Christ is a part. There is no 'church' as the west defines it. The 'church' as defined by the west is not a part of the Israel of God or the seed of Abraham. This alone is a huge mistake propagated by dispensational propaganda and it obscures the truth and hence, accurate interpretation.

There are two Israels: The country, and the people in Christ who are the seed of Abraham, the true Israel of God.  There isn't the nation, the people and the 'church'.  You'll never see it if you keep wearing dispensational spectacles.

There is no last trump at the feast of trumps. It a memorial of blowing trumps. No first, no last trump. Likening the last trump of the end of the age to the feast of trumps doesn't work since no such last trump exists in the command by God concerning the feast of trumpets.

 

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

Matt 24 

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

As to the Church, the Gentile believers, the GOODMAN will not know when He is coming. The GOODMAN can escape ALL THE THINGS that will come to pass and stand before the son of man. The GOODMAN can escape all the events of the seals as the seals are the 70th week of Daniel. This time is determined to be about the people of Daniel.

You built that conclusion out of absolutely nothing. There isn't a whiff of pretrib proof in the scripture you posted. The NT tells us the Gentiles are grafted into the Israel of God. WE are Daniel's people, everyone who believes.

11 hours ago, The Light said:

Two raptures. Two harvests. Learn the parable of the fig tree. The fig tree has two harvests.

" Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."

 

I see no harvest of any kind here. This is an analogy of discerning the times.

Are you referring to the parable of the barren fig tree? That tree yielded no fruit at all, there was no harvest. 

[Diaste]

20 minutes ago, OneLight said:

That is where that theory looses a lot of credibility.   It's not who Jesus was speaking to, but who He was speaking about.  Who is the "fig tree" that puts forth its leaves?  Many agree that this is Israel, as when Israel became a nation again in 1948.

Matthew 24:32-35

Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.  So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!  Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

What are "these things" they will see?  Everything in the beginning of the chapter Jesus spoke of.

Matthew 24:3-31

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.  For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.  All these are the beginning of sorrows.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.  And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.  Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.  And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.  But he who endures to the end shall be saved.  And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.  Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.  And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!  And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.  For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.  And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it.  For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.  See, I have told you beforehand.

“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.   For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.  For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

I had asked this in previous threads and received no answers.  I'll ask again.  Was all the above fulfilled by the time AD 70 came around?

Good luck with getting an answer. Your question has been asked many times and I have not yet seen the answer. There was an attempt at slicing and dicing Matt 24 into shreds to make the answer work. It's pretty painful.

[Diaste]

"Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.

...until all these things have happened.

...until all these things have happened."

A terminal generation yet to rise. 

[TrueGospel]

https://testallthings.com/2009/06/05/a-study-of-revelation-13/amp/

Only nonelects receive mark of the beast 666.

It is impossible for God’s elects to “worship the beast and his image and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand”.

• Only God's elects will get to Heaven for sure 100% because God will give them the Holy Spirit. (Psalm 37:28, John 6:37, John 10:27-29, Romans 8:35-39, Ephesians 1:11-14, 1 Peter 1:5)

Ephesians 1:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Revelation 7:3
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

https://testallthings.com/2010/05/31/when-is-the-rapture/

If you are interested in freedom from sin and how do we receive the Holy Spirit? read below.
After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.

1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)


15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Now I will be preaching about how to receive the Holy Spirit and be 100% going to Heaven.

First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires. When you pray to God to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or sinful desires (Romans 6:6-7 and Galatians 5:24), Satan will intervene and extremely tempt you in watching the TV. But if it’s God’s will and if you are one of God’s elects, you will overcome it and God will destroy all your evil desires of watching TV. After God has destroyed all your evil desires of watching TV and if you are one of God’s elects, you receive the joy of the Holy Spirit for about 40 minutes. After the joy wears off, all existence of boredom no longer exists and you no longer burn out (psychology) anymore. That is when you have received the Holy Spirit.

Then it’s by the grace of God that he forgives you of your sins, as you confess and repent of your sins throughout your life which is called sanctification. But you can watch Christian stuff that don’t have sins (Like sermons) because that helps you grow more mature as a Christian spiritually and for more information about this sermon, go to spreadthegospel59.wordpress.com then go to
The short version of “To be free from sin (sin deceives and hurts everyone) and how do we receive the Holy Spirit?”

Why does God hate sin? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that “you were bought with a price” (1 Corinthians 6:20; 7:23)? | GotQuestions.org
Sin Will Never Make You Happy
(What does the Bible say about hypocrisy? | GotQuestions.org)
Gives thanks to God, that you are free from sin (sin deceives=never satisfied no matter how many times you do it,
gives pain, makes you guilty, go from bad to worse)
if you are one of God’s elect, to fight off self-pity is to give thanks to God for everything. What does the Bible say about self-pity? | GotQuestions.org
Is eternal security a “license” to sin? | GotQuestions.org

The reason why am hated for no reason since I were physically born and never fit in is because am one of God’s elects. (John 15:18-19)


Just so you know Jesus had to carry all of God’s elects sins and endure the punishment for God’s elects sins which is Hellfire spiritually, which is extreme love and mercy.
Go to the bottom website, for better explanation.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/jesus-eternal-punishment-hours/

Edited June 15, 2021 by TrueGospel

[OneLight]

29 minutes ago, Josheb said:

No, it is not. 

I knew you would say this.  It is the only response you can give and still hold onto your theory.

Quote

False dichotomy. Those to whom he was speaking are also those about whom he was speaking. He plainly states they would see the things he was describing. He quite plainly stated they would be handed over to tribulation and Matthew quite plainly reported the entire conversation occurred within the context of Jesus stating the temple would be destroyed. Don't  look to what you've been taught the passage says. Read it for yourself and see what it states, not what others have made it say. 

"Many say"? Yes, many do say the tree is Israel but the text does not say that. In fact the text does not in any way say the fig tree is a symbol for anything or any one! It's a simple analogy: you know summer is near when the leaves come forth. When those in attendance saw the events he was describing then Jesus would be near. No need to insert "Israel" into the text. Just read it as written. 

 

Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.
See to it that no one misleads you.
You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened...
Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name.
Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place...
But pray that your flight will not be in the winter...
Behold, I have told you in advance.
When its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that he is near.
Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 
Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

Did the disciples see the fig tree bloom, Israel become a nation again?  Nope, not at all.  They saw the temple destroyed in 70 AD by Titus.  Jesus spoke about those who witnessed the fig tree blooming, which happened in 1948.  That generation will not pass away till all these things take place.  Those are Jesus words, not yours nor mine. 

Realize it or not, Jesus was talking to the disciples, so of course He would use the word "you".  I can't imagine anyone thinking that everything written in scripture is intended only to those who were present at the time the words were spoken.  The problem with the theory you hold is that anyone that follows it cannot show one bit of evidence that all that is written in Matthew 24 has come to pass.  All they can do is what you just did, redirect His words to make them appear like Jesus was only talking to and about those who were in audience.  List all that Jesus said would happen and provide evidence in history of it happening if you want to make a real case.

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by OneLight
spelling

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, OneLight said:

Realize it or not, Jesus was talking to the disciples, so of course He would use the word "you".  I can't imagine anyone thinking that everything written in scripture is intended only to those who were present at the time the words were spoken.  The problem with the theory you hold is that anyone that follows it cannot show one bit of evidence that all that is written in Matthew 24 has come to pass.  All they can do is what you just did, redirect His words to make them appear like Jesus was only talking to and about those who were in audience.  List all that Jesus said would happen and provide evidence in history of it happening if you want to make a real case.

 

Quite right.

Like Matt 5 would not apply to anyone that wasn't in the audience at the time. The same would apply to anytime Paul was addressing a group. Rev 2-3 would only apply to those specific churches and the members thereof. 

 

[OneLight]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Quite right.

Like Matt 5 would not apply to anyone that wasn't in the audience at the time. The same would apply to anytime Paul was addressing a group. Rev 2-3 would only apply to those specific churches and the members thereof. 

 

To me, it's rather simple.  Jesus set certain conditions that had to be met in order to say this was the time period He was speaking of.  The question is, were all the conditions met?  No prophecy can claim to be fulfilled if only part of the prophecy was completed.