Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[choir loft]

25 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Which part?  All of it!

The Rapture of the Church before the Tribulation.

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,”  Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent  of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

Daniel’s Seventieth Week and the Tribulation. Dan. 9:24-27.

The Tribulation will begin to affect Israel before the seventieth week begins. And when the Antichrist rises at the beginning of the Week, Israel will be undergoing persecution by the whore and the ten kings of Revised Rome who are dominated by the whore until the middle of the week. The Antichrist will make a seven years covenant with Israel assuring them protection in their continued establishment as a nation, Dan. 9:27.

The Jews will not accept Catholicism when it again dominates the nations of the old world and begins to murder all heretics as it has done in the past. Because Jews will not submit, there will be a widespread persecution of the Jews and “theywill be hated of all nations” during the time of “the beginning of sorrows” when the Antichrist will be endeavoring to conquer all these nations, Matt. 24:4-12.

Antichrist will need Jewish moral and financial support to help him rise over these nations, so he will make an alliance with them for seven years. Therefore, the time of the Tribulation is during the whole of Daniel’s Seventieth Week, Dan. 9:27. It will end at the second Advent, Matt. 24:29-31.

Jesus said that the angels don't know when the rapture will happen, He also said that even He does not know. So if the angels don't know then Satan also doesn't know when it will happen. Only the Father knows according to Jesus.

Mark 13:4, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Jesus replied,

Mark 13:32, But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Scripture also states that Satan knows that he has but a short time.

 

Revelation 12:12,Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

Taking in the fact that we and Satan live in eternity future, Satan knew he had but a short time the day he rebelled against the Father, and the fact the Jesus defeated him by His death and resurrection. Any length of time cut from a life to be lived in eternity, no matter when this occurs will be but a short time.

 

The disciples asked Jesus when will this all occur?

 

 

Mark 13:4, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

 

5, And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

    

6, For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    

7, And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

    

8, For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

 

9, But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

    

10, And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

 

All these things so far at one time or another have been happening since Jesus returned to Heaven and sent the Holy Spirit to keep us and guide us. The only thing I can see that has not yet occurred is the fact the gospel has not yet been preached among all nations.

 

There have been tribes found deep in South America, Papua New Guinea, and other parts of the Earth that have not yet even heard of God, the gospel, or Jesus.

 

The Rapture of the Church before the Tribulation.

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,”  Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent  of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

 

Daniel’s Seventieth Week and the Tribulation. Dan. 9:24-27.

 The Tribulation will begin to affect Israel before the seventieth week begins. And when the Antichrist rises at the beginning of the Week, Israel will be undergoing persecution by the whore and the ten kings of Revised Rome who are dominated by the whore until the middle of the week. The Antichrist will make a seven years covenant with Israel assuring them protection in their continued establishment as a nation, Dan. 9:27.

The Jews will not accept Catholicism when it again dominates the nations of the old world and begins to murder all heretics as it has done in the past. Because Jews will not submit, there will be a widespread persecution of the Jews and “theywill be hated of all nations” during the time of “the beginning of sorrows” when the Antichrist will be endeavoring to conquer all these nations, Matt. 24:4-12.

Antichrist will need Jewish moral and financial support to help him rise over these nations, so he will make an alliance with them for seven years. Therefore, the time of the Tribulation is during the whole of Daniel’s Seventieth Week, Dan. 9:27. It will end at the second Advent, Matt. 24:29-31.

 

"And the gospel must first be published among all nations."

 

WHEN WILL IT OCCURE.

 

Mark 13:33, Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

    

34, For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

    

35, Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

    

36, Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

    

37, And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

 

So when will it be? Lets forget the word "SOON."

 

Only the Father knows, and Jesus knows this much, Jesus commands us to be ever ready, for it can happen any time!

Your lengthy journey into irrelevancy denies the basis for End Times teaching in the first place.

Just as a hint, all End Times prophecy is focused upon Israel - NOT the church.   End Times prophecy is solidly based on Jewish Law, which establishes a period of time called the Year of Jubilee.  

Since Jews never observed this commandment, they lost track of calculating when it ought to be observed.   All the scriptures you quote were written by Jews and for Jews who understood this reference (which you neglected to make, btw).  By the time of Jesus, when the question of His second coming was asked, it was understood to be linked to the Year of Jubilee.   Nobody knew how to calculate the timing - even Jewish scholars to this day.   Therefore Jesus' reply was a mathematical answer, not specifically a spiritual one - and DEFINITELY not about the rapture.

Jewish holidays are usually, but not always, observed from sundown to sundown.  Therefore the second part of the question as to "times" asks when it will happen - sundown or noon or some other time?

I can go on and on with explaining your quotations, but suffice it to say you've gone completely off the rails.    What you are doing is NOT mining scripture to discern truth so much as using scripture to support a pre-defined argument - the rapture dogma.  That's the problem with rapture supporters.   They put the cart before the horse - the dogma before the scripture.   That's why its wrong.'

As for the time of the rapture, even rapture fans can't agree on it.  Why?  Again - because they establish a favorite notion and then try to shoehorn scripture and logic into it.  

IT SIMPLY DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE IT ISN'T TRUE.

but rapture fans simply don't get it........like Cinderella's step-sisters they continue to try to wedge their fat feet into a shoe that just won't fit.

Never will.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited April 8, 2019 by choir loft

[HAZARD]

5 minutes ago, choir loft said:

Your lengthy journey into irrelevancy denies the basis for End Times teaching in the first place.

Just as a hint, all End Times prophecy is focused upon Israel - NOT the church.   End Times prophecy is solidly based on Jewish Law, which establishes a period of time called the Year of Jubilee.  

Since Jews never observed this commandment, they lost track of calculating when it ought to be observed.   All the scriptures you quote were written by Jews and for Jews who understood this reference (which you neglected to make, btw).  By the time of Jesus, when the question of His second coming was asked, it was understood to be linked to the Year of Jubilee.   Nobody knew how to calculate the timing - even Jewish scholars to this day.   Therefore Jesus' reply was a mathematical answer, not specifically a spiritual one - and DEFINITELY not about the rapture.

Jewish holidays are usually, but not always, observed from sundown to sundown.  Therefore the second part of the question as to "times" asks when it will happen - sundown or noon or some other time?

I can go on and on with explaining your quotations, but suffice it to say you've gone completely off the rails.    What you are doing is NOT mining scripture to discern truth so much as using scripture to support a pre-defined argument - the rapture dogma.  That's the problem with rapture supporters.   They put the cart before the horse - the dogma before the scripture.   That's why its wrong.'

As for the time of the rapture, even rapture fans can't agree on it.  Why?  Again - because they establish a favorite notion and then try to shoehorn scripture and logic into it.  

IT SIMPLY DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE IT ISN'T TRUE.

but rapture fans simply don't get it........like Cinderella's step-sisters they continue to try to wedge their fat feet into a shoe that just won't fit.

Never will.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Holler all you like. You deny the Word of God.

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.
The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.
At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

[JustPassingThru]

What if, both views were right?

Man wouldn't that be something, ...Those that believe in a pre-Trib Rapture are taken before the start of the 7 years, .....and those that want to go through the Tribulation God gives them the desires of their hearts, ...hummmm, I think I have read that somewhere..., maybe it's no so far fetched!

[HAZARD]

2 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

What if, both views were right?

Man wouldn't that be something, ...Those that believe in a pre-Trib Rapture are taken before the start of the 7 years, .....and those that want to go through the Tribulation God gives them the desires of their hearts, ...hummmm, I think I have read that somewhere..., maybe it's no so far fetched!

Those who don't believe the Word of God and what Jesus Christ says about His saints being taken out of the world to protect them from the tribulation will be left here to go through it. God does not force anyone to believe anything He says in His Word.

[seeking the lost]

1 hour ago, choir loft said:

The mind wrenching argument goes on and on among rapture fans - without end, seemingly.   

None of them are sure about the arrival of their departure, but they are absolutely certain it will happen even if there's absolutely NO contextual support for the idea. The fact they have no idea what they're talking about and constantly argue with one another about fine points of a dream world they wish for is proof positive.  The rapture is a doctrine of demons and the imaginary world of fools.

Object to this demonic doctrine and you will eventually get censored by a moderator.  Free exchange of thought is not allowed.   Object to this poppycock and you'll start a religious fist fight that will result in all sorts of insults - supported I must add by the moderators themselves.  Point out the flaws and the language being used and censorship will take its toll.

Nobody and I mean nobody realizes the rapture is the doctrine of cowards, religious bigots, liars and profit hungry con artists.

"I pray not that thou shouldest take them from the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil one." - Jesus as quoted by John 17:15

Which part of NOT do rapture fans NOT understand?  

All of it, apparently.  It will generally be ignored, because of course Jesus didn't know what He was talking about did he?   It can also be suggested the quote is taken out of context even though the entire rapture nonsense is based on about a half-dozen verses scattered here and there in scripture having nothing at all to do with the doctrine except that it sounds good when used outside of the body of work from which it's lifted.

The rapture is a doctrine of cowards because it suggests gullible American Protestants will be wisked away from earthly trouble before they get their little tail feathers twisted.  The doctrine refuses to acknowledge that God will be with His disciples THROUGH any difficulty.  The entire Bible context attests to this attitude of the Most High.   God hates a coward (Revelation 21:8), but that is exactly what rapture dogma doesn't teach.   Jesus encourages His followers to be stalwart and of good courage.  Rapture fans sit in their pews and nod their bobble-heads and agree with whatever buzz words come their way. 

The rapture doctrine is anti-semitic and exclusivist.   ONLY American Protestant Christians will be allowed to "beam out".   The doctrine explicitly excludes Jews and all the rest of Christendom including Roman Catholics and the Orthodox denominations - which form the majority of Christendom by the way.   Of all the worlds' three major religions, only American Protestants believe they are somehow exceptionally endowed with Tinkerbell dust so as to fly away when things get dicey.

"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man can reason away." - Doobie Brothers WHAT A FOOL BELIEVES song of the year 1980

It goes without saying that fools who believe the rapture doctrine to be truth can not and will not be reasoned with.  Instead they cling to their dogma and refuse to accept the rest of the Bible's teaching.   Emmanuel is God with us.  What for?  So that he can punch a lottery ticket to beam American Protestants into the clouds -OR- so that He can comfort and encourage us in the midst of trouble?

Rapture fans seem to forget that part, or using double-minded logic somehow think they can have both at the same time.   That's impossible too, but they won't buy that logic either.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

The rapture is a biblical doctrine.  As with all doctrines of demons they start with biblical context.  The prevailing teachings of the rapture all have to add to the scripture or change the scripture to fit their doctrine.  The rapture will follow the resurrection at the end of the thousand years.  The purpose of the rapture is not to escape tribulation but to take us to a new place, like a new heaven and a new earth. 

Believers Who Have Died

13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Without adding a resurrection, which will bring a curse,there are only two resurrections to chose from.  The first resurrection is of those who were martyred during the tribulation.  These are being raised to reign and are not going up.  This is a limited and specific resurrection for purpose  The rest of the dead including Believers who have died will be raised at the end of the thousand years.  

Rev. 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

[HAZARD]

17 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

The rapture is a biblical doctrine.  As with all doctrines of demons they start with biblical context.  The prevailing teachings of the rapture all have to add to the scripture or change the scripture to fit their doctrine.  The rapture will follow the resurrection at the end of the thousand years.  The purpose of the rapture is not to escape tribulation but to take us to a new place, like a new heaven and a new earth. 

Believers Who Have Died

13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Without adding a resurrection, which will bring a curse,there are only two resurrections to chose from.  The first resurrection is of those who were martyred during the tribulation.  These are being raised to reign and are not going up.  This is a limited and specific resurrection for purpose  The rest of the dead including Believers who have died will be raised at the end of the thousand years.  

Rev. 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Scripture teaches that there has been one rapture already and will be four more raptures in the first resurrection?

First rapture was, the going to Heaven of Christ and the saints who were resurrected after HIS resurrection (Matt. 27:52; Eph. 4:7-11; Acts 1:11).

Second, The rapture of those "that are Christs at His coming" (1 Cor. 15:23; 1 Thess. 4:13-16).

Third, The rapture of the 144,000 Jews in the middle of the Week (Rev. 12:5; 14:1-5; Dan. 12:1; Isa. 66:7-8).

Fourth, The rapture of the tribulation saints (Rev. 7:9-17; 15: 2-4; 20:4-6).

Fifth, The rapture of the two witnesses (Rev. 11:3-12).

That there are two main resurrections from the dead with a thousand years between them. The first is that of the blessed and holy; and this is before the thousand years, for we read "THE REST OF THE DEAD LIVED NOT AGAIN UNTILL THE THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED" (Rev. 20:4-15).

[Zemke]

15 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Those who don't believe the Word of God and what Jesus Christ says about His saints being taken out of the world to protect them from the tribulation will be left here to go through it. God does not force anyone to believe anything He says in His Word.

First I think it's admirable to defend your beliefs against choir loft, he seems sincere enough but a little over the top with the messianic Jewdism. I believe the western church can use all the Hebraic understanding of the scriptures we can get but he has a strange way of not having the patience to teach it. But that's just me hollering from the back row.

However, to say not believing in a pre-trib rapture will leave one left behind is a stretch and borders on Jesus plus something. Like in, "Oh ya, believe in Jesus, sure, but you 'also' need to be taught dispensationalism and believe pretribulationism. It's statements like that that a person such as choir loft laughs aloud. 

I remember the day when the phrase, "We'll show you on the way up" was the standard for pre-trib. 

We have in Micah ch7 a clear statement that God will "bring me out to the light and I will behold His righteousness, and my enemy shall see. Then she shall be trampled down like mire in the streets." It's an interesting section of scripture. The prophet is in dire straights leading up to this proclamation. The phrase, "Do not rejoice over me oh my enemy, for if I should fall I will arise." (resurrection) Also, Daniel was clear there will be a rescue and Peter in Acts states that the sun will turn to darkness and the moon to blood 'before' that great and glorious day comes. To be dogmatic and condemn those who have been saved that have always seen the coming of the Lord as simply taught, as they can understand it clearly written, is something you need to check. Not only is pre-trib not clear to many Bible-believing God-fearing faithful brothers and sisters a statement like that is party spirit. It's divisive. We can discuss these things but this is not a divisive issue and with an attack on the rescue of God from all quarters we who know there is a rescue need to at least have unity in that. 

 The word yatsa, strongs 3318. It's a Hebrew word meaning brought out, pulled out, taken at any time. It's the word used for Lot, Rahab and Moses bringing the camp out to meet the LORD in Exodus 19 all the while a loud trumpet sound grew louder and louder. They had to wash their garments, an emphatic command. God said He would raise up a prophet like unto Moses. We see things differently concerning the coming of the LORD but the breaking of His body and the shedding of His blood is where we find unity, a common salvation. Really check yourself about declaring what you have.                           

[JustPassingThru]

17 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Those who don't believe the Word of God and what Jesus Christ says about His saints being taken out of the world to protect them from the tribulation will be left here to go through it. God does not force anyone to believe anything He says in His Word.

I know and believe that mate, I was just trying to bring some levity into all of this foolishness, ...from Genesis to Revelation the preponderance of evidence of the pre-Trib rapture is overwhelming in God's Word, ...the problem is, in Jesus' own words:

If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!  Mat 6:23

Lord bless

 

[Zemke]

59 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

I know and believe that mate, I was just trying to bring some levity into all of this foolishness, ...from Genesis to Revelation the preponderance of evidence of the pre-Trib rapture is overwhelming in God's Word, ...the problem is, in Jesus' own words:

If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!  Mat 6:23

Lord bless

 

 

So, are you saying that if a believer doesn't see this preponderance of evidence you say exists but has seen the coming of Jesus differently, they have darkness in them, great darkness? 

The litmus test for salvation being a belief in pre-trib?

[Last Daze]

19 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Those who don't believe the Word of God and what Jesus Christ says about His saints being taken out of the world to protect them from the tribulation will be left here to go through it. God does not force anyone to believe anything He says in His Word.

Everything will be revealed in His time.  May those who believe in Jesus endure and persevere until the last trumpet sounds on the last day.