Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[farouk]

4 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Yes, in which the victory over death has already been accomplished for those who have received the gift,  and so have been saved from death and destruction, so never die nor descend to the place of the dead!!! 

I don't think that there is an understanding of what DEATH as in Adam means in relation to the two bodies.

As in Adam means all natural bodies have a shelf life.  Our first body carries us though this 'alive on earth' time and then it dies.  


As in Christ means we all have a spiritual body too.  (the Lord of both the living and the dead)

For the SAVED we are raised up in the spiritual body as we have already had our baptism and so have already died and been raised up, and now just go home to heaven

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.


For the UNSAVED, they descend, in their spiritual body and now they have their 'baptism' but it is unto death and the corruption of the earth.  They remain in the corruption of hell until Christ returns.  They don't follow Him at all, they have to wait for the last day.  

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

How many people think that the rich man talking to Lazarus after they had both died are speaking to each other in this earthen flesh body?  We see one buried and one taken to heaven.  They have move on to the 'unseen' world.  The 'spiritual' realm, no less real and physical, just unseen to us presently.  

We have seen graves opened and there is no life in the carcass that once housed our spirit/souls.  And there never will be again.  

 

 

@DeighAnn On the Victory's side:

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

⁵⁸ Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord." (1 Corinthians 15.57-58)

 

[seeking the lost]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Are you saying when the natural body dies (the first death), that we are NOT raised up to continue on living in heaven in our spiritual body?




 

No not at all.  There are two resurrections.  The first is at the end of the tribulation.  This is a limited resurrection.  The people raised are raised to reign on the earth.  They do not go up for any length of time, like in a big u-turn.  The second resurrection includes the rest of the dead.  The time of the second resurrection is the time of judgment.  A time that the books are opened and there is a separation of sheep and goats.

It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment.

[DeighAnn]

5 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

The people raised are raised to reign on the earth. 

From where are they raised up?

[DeighAnn]

6 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

  The first is at the end of the tribulation.

What do you call this?


50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

[farouk]

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

From where are they raised up?

@DeighAnn 1 Thess. 5.23 comes to mind: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

[DeighAnn]

51 minutes ago, farouk said:

@DeighAnn 1 Thess. 5.23 comes to mind: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Do you think that we feed the natural body or the spiritual body with the body and blood of Christ? 

Do you think God allow any part of us in which He dwells to go into the corruption of the earth or do you think that is just a place for the spiritually dead that have died aka THE DEAD?

 

[choir loft]

23 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

My view is that many of the teachings of the rapture are demon inspired.  Most of these doctrines require adding to the scripture or taking away from it.

The demonic realm is very interested in driving man to be cursed.  The word of the Lord is, do not add to the writings of this book or you will be cursed.  The demons have deceived people with these words, God does not want you to suffer.  The inspiration of demons then is to assist in helping to find where the exit is.  The exit is the rapture.

The rapture is connected with the resurrection which is yet future.  No one should add resurrections or suppose that there is a rapture without the resurrection of the dead. 

The western Church is very interested in who can find the most raptures. Some teachers have identified as many as 16 raptures. I call it recreational rapture finding.  Most of the world is in severe persecution already.

Nothing May Be Added or Removed

18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

 

16 raptures?

I thought 3 or 4 was a stretch.  

Not a surprise, though.  

It's a doctrine of cowards and those who are more interested than a flight of fantasy than a walk of faith usually buy into it.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[choir loft]

On 2/16/2023 at 8:53 PM, Retrobyter said:

The Rapture does not take anyone to "Heaven!" It takes us THROUGH the "heavens" - THROUGH the "skies!" It's a TRANSPORT SYSTEM taking the Resurrected people from wherever they were buried or scattered to the Middle East, particularly Israel.

WOW!!!!

You've got a lot of science fiction going on for an item that isn't even mentioned in scripture. 

I live in the Southeast USA.   A lot of airlines used Atlanta, Georgia as a hub.  Many flights connect through there.

Some jokes have circulated here for years that the rapture would go through Atlanta.

BUT YOUR statement is the epitome of falsification.  Nowhere does the Bible refer to transport systems, going through the heavens or through the skies.  Neither does scripture suggest a destination in Israel.

I've stated earlier that the rapture dogma is for cowards, but you've demonstrated something else entirely.

What have you been smoking?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[seeking the lost]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

What do you call this?


50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

I can only go by the scripture.  Revelation 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[seeking the lost]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

From where are they raised up?

They were in the grave.  That is why it is called being raised.