What do you think of all the super-rich pastors around the world and their lifestyles??

[David1701]

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

I believe that is a false dichotomy. It is true the temporal and the physical were often foreshadowing or larger "spiritual" realities but that does not preclude their also being continued temporal, tangible, material, etc. realities. I say this because there are many wealthy people in the NT, some of whom are commended and others who are not. On no occasion is their wealth repudiated, only the attitudes and behaviors attached to the love of that wealth.

I used "often" and "primarily", deliberately to avoid a full dichotomy...

[David1701]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

Everyone here knows what was stated. I quoted it. I know what was stated. So do you. If you want to change, or amend what was stated that is completely within your ability to do AND completely acceptable to me but don't act like what was stated is not what was said. 

Furthermore, the scriptures quoted do NOT "warn against accumulating personal wealth". They warn against the love of money and the behaviors that stem from such affection and idolatry. One of the passages quoted even states the LOVE of money is the root of all evil AND you highlighted that text. That is NOT a warning aganst the accumulation of wealth; that is a warning against loving the accumulated wealth. Huge difference. 

 

If we're going to exegete these texts there are some siginifcant problems in they way they are being applied. For example, the first text (Mt. 13:22) was not spoken to believers about believers. It was spoken to Jews about those who hear the world and the hearing of the Word (the guy who was speaking to them ) gets "choked" out. They are not regenerate and indwelt believers. Does that preclude riches from causing problems in the lives of Christians? No, but that is not to whom or about whom Jesus is speaking. 

Shall I walk through the other texts with you to show how they do NOT state or say waringins against accumulating wealth as was previously stated?  

Happy to do so. 

 

It is a very real possibility Jesus was "super rich." He was given a great deal of wealth as a child and had it been invested and faithfully stewarded then by the time he began his earthly ministry he would have been extraordinarily wealthy. Yes, it is also likely he eschewed that wealth but neither speculation indicates Jesus decried wealth. It is the love of money, not the money itself that is the problem. 

Where are all these people who supposedly accumulate wealth for themselves (as you know, that is what I was talking about), without loving it?

[Slug1]

9 hours ago, Josheb said:

First, I said "prosperous," not "prosperity." In the normal, ordinary use of those two terms there would not be much if any distinction between the two and I could speak of my prosperousness or presperity without differences in intent or meaning. However, because of a few who teach what has become known as a "prosperity gospel" the term prosperity has taken on a different meaning within our circles. 

But it is not what I mean at all. 

For this reason I have stayed out of the exchanges that pertained to the prosperity gospel teachers. They have nothing to do with what I posted. I doubt anyone wants to read what I have about that wretched theology and the ungodly idolatrous (perhaps misguided) preachers who teach that dross. I appreciate the response (even though the questions asked were not answered) but I will tell you the same thing I told my other brother: the questions I asked were directed specifically to the op because the op stated maybe some of our opinions would help. I will therefore wait another day (I see he's re-entered the conversation) to see if he responds and offer more input once I know his answers to the questions put to him in relevance to his op. 

Fair enough?

Hooah, will be standing by.

[Mike Mclees]

20 hours ago, Josheb said:

I believe that is a false dichotomy. It is true the temporal and the physical were often foreshadowing or larger "spiritual" realities but that does not preclude their also being continued temporal, tangible, material, etc. realities. I say this because there are many wealthy people in the NT, some of whom are commended and others who are not. On no occasion is their wealth repudiated, only the attitudes and behaviors attached to the love of that wealth.

2 Peter 2:3-And through covetousness shall they with fiend words they  make merchandise of you. 

Like so many today are proud fast talking charismatics with tongues smoother than silk. We have have seen them. I have seen them. yet as lambs with blind eyes we follow after them. They entice us with dreams. prayer cloths, and promises God shall double their money. 

When  Jesus spoke the parable of the man with  many barns what was his real problem? Not because he was well off but that he never glorified God with it.  

Edited July 5, 2021 by Mike Mclees

[Mike Mclees]

Aside from Televangelists I have seen denominations with large congregations entice the rich  to be members of their assembly, with  Caribbean cruses and popular speakers. Get you tickets now and don't miss out. There is also much corruption, false teaching in this thing we call Christianity that has disenchanted me over my thirty five plus years.

This is why  we must maintain a deep personal walk With Jesus and be wise about every wind of doctrine 

Paul said Know ye not that ye are the Temple, and the Spirit of God dwells within you. 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Mike Mclees

[David1701]

19 hours ago, Josheb said:

Accumulate? Or are blessed by God with God's resources for God's purposes?  

Those are two distinct scenarios.  The first is based on intent by the person, the other is based on intent by God.

[David1701]

25 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Yep. Have I not from the beginning been making that very point? 

Riches? Not a problem.
Intent? Might be a problem. 
Effect? Might be a problem.
Outcome? Might be a problem. 
Measure? Christ and his whole word. 

Riches can be a problem, because of the strong temptation they pose, to many people.

The rest I already agree with.

[TheBlade]

Hi.. gonna said it.. when preachers names are dropped don't you have that thought from the start "they are not here to speak for them selfs"? What I always ask myself in threads like this is how can the the light of the world know darkness first? What good do they do? Why are you focused on the negative? Going to just fast and pray for them for hours weeks months because you believe they are in the wrong? 

I know the good.. no one posted it. Thats the first thing I choose to think about. Truth is no one here has been given any authority over them. Wanna toss out the right to judge go for it because GOD WILL judge us by our own words. See to judge is to love them help them.. that kind of thing. So since we tend to NOT do that its why He said don't. See them through His eyes.. 1st Cor 13 and through the fruits of the spirit. 

 you have no clue why I do this do you. Gossip stops the holy Spirit. In 60 years God, Holy Spirit, Christ has never once told me one negative thing about any believer. You see some faith preacher..where do you think those thoughts that not good not words of life but negative thoughts came from? They are in the wrong or in error and Gods going to give you negative thoughts? Yeah not Him your listening to. You would this love this peace something where you just HAVE to help! 

So know what good they do first. Speak words of life. Give no place for the devil. Were we not told how to think all the time? What does love see and remember? Do they truly sin against you? YES! I do this for those I truly do not agree with.. but if it was me... talk to me ask me.. if you see me in error pray for me.. HELP. Man I already have someone against me 24/7 I don't family doing the same thing. 

[Tammy Roesch]

I don't think much.  I don't find any example in the Bible of any Pastor or leader in the Church getting rich off the Church....in fact, the example of Paul seems to speak loudly against that.

[enoob57]

Especially when it is so loudly buffeted by Scripture

Matthew 6:24 (KJV)
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.