Is God a liar, or is the creation account true?

[dad2]

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DOESN'T SEEM AT ALL DARK AT THIS TIME DOES IT??  DARKNESS DIDN'T COME FIRST.  IT HAD TO BE MADE

 

 

 There is no mention or light/dark in the verses you cited. Why pretend they somehow support your fantasy past? There is mention in a verse after this of some cloud being swaddled in darkness, but that does not mean millions of years, or anything you are pushing. There is also a question posed about where light lives..the answer has to be 'you and all other men have no clue at all'  Not sure why you post a chapter you do not understand to support a made up anti bible millions of years fantasy?

Edited September 22, 2021 by dad2

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

On day one the water was not separate from land yet, NOTHING to do with millions of imaginary inserted years.

Yes, but IT WAS ALREADY THERE.  So again, True, the water was not separated from the land but GOD did not 'speak' them into BEING at that time, did He?  No, as you yourself MUST know as it is you yourself who just stated it.   

These are not my 'fairyland' words.  I am just stating/pointing out the obvious AND  Clearly WRITTEN for all who can see it as "it is WRITTEN",  and not only as they were taught. 

If one is not willing to be led,  then one is not able to grow and so won't.  The choice is ours.  I choose to 'seek' deeper and speak where I am led, so that I may be led further.  That means, lots of 'Nopes.  You don't understands.  You have that all wrongs.  That isn't what He meants.'  The list of attacks goes on and on.  


You believe that 'the earth' CAME INTO BEING by, well, I guess, JUST being there?  so I don't know, you haven't given me any scripture on the how when and whys of your belief but have only pointed out no belief on the how when and why scriptures I have posted.  

So the 'millions' of years of 'imaginary' time isn't 

JUST 'INSERTED' by me at all. 

IT HAD TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE, some 'time'

BECAUSE THERE IT IS. AND

GOD SAID HE DIDN'T CREATE IT THAT WAY

SO IT HAD TO BECOME THAT WAY. 

The BEING HE CREATED THE FULL PATTERN turned on Him and turned into AN  ADVERSARY, our Adversary,  SOMETIME BEFORE HE WAS THE SERPENT (an adversary) IN THE GARDEN


GOD gives us hints (arrows) all over the place, 

Ecclesiastes 1:8 All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 THE THING THAT HATH BEEN IT IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE AND THAT WHICH IS DONE IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE DONE AND THERE IN NO NEW THING UNDER THE SUN. 

Ecclesiastes 1:10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? IT HATH BEEN ALREADY OF OLD TIME WHICH WAS BEFORE US.  

Ecclesiastes 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

Ecclesiastes 1:12 I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.

Are these words TRUTH or are they NOT?   I didn't write these things. And God didn't write them just so that I could make some really good points and win an argument I'm sure. 

THERE WILL BE A 'NEW JERUSALEM'.  THERE IS THIS JERUSALEM.  WHAT MAKES YOU BELIEVE THERE WASN'T A 'PRIOR' JERUSALEM?  

Ever notice how God does things in 3's?  

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.


Hebrews 13

Let brotherly love continue. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body. Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Let us go forth therefore unto HIM without the camp, bearing his reproach.  For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. But to do good and to communicate forget not: FOR WITH SUCH SACRIFICES GOD IS WELL PLEASED.

 

D

[dad2]

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Yes, but IT WAS ALREADY THERE. So again, True, the water was not separated from the land but GOD did not 'speak' them into BEING at that time, did He?

 

How would you know? Genesis 1:1

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 1:2

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

 

If He created it all in the beginning as verse one says, and in verse 2 we see water, then why would you claim water or land was not yet created?

 

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You believe that 'the earth' CAME INTO BEING by, well, I guess, JUST being there?

 

No, God created it. He furthermore explains the process to some extent in which He did that. First what was created was dark and not fully formed as we know it today. Neither were the heavens apparently. The firmament is where the stars were made. So there was no space and universe as we know it now. God had waters above that space and here below on earth. That was separated, and later we see that the stars and etc were made in the firmament. Those who claim the stars were 'really' here all along but just not visible or some such are making things up. There was also light created on day 1. Before the sun existed, there was light already divided from darkness, and days. By the third day, God divides the dry land from the waters. So yes the earth was created, and it was formed and completed in days that followed. No millions of years anywhere in sight.

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So the 'millions' of years of 'imaginary' time isn't 

JUST 'INSERTED' by me at all. 

IT HAD TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE, some 'time'

BECAUSE THERE IT IS. AND

GOD SAID HE DIDN'T CREATE IT THAT WAY

SO IT HAD TO BECOME THAT WAY. 

 

 

The first three days are when it happened. That is the time. No inserted millions of years involved, that is made up whole of cloth.

 

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The BEING HE CREATED THE FULL PATTERN turned on Him and turned into AN  ADVERSARY, our Adversary,  SOMETIME BEFORE HE WAS THE SERPENT (an adversary) IN THE GARDEN

 

Great, so what? In other words Satan was already created before he visited earth and the garden. Big deal. You do realize that one day Satan will be thrown down to earth permanently, and no longer have access to any part heaven? What, it is news that some fallen angels can travel? God allowed that visit because man needed it.

 

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Ecclesiastes 1:9 THE THING THAT HATH BEEN IT IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE AND THAT WHICH IS DONE IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE DONE AND THERE IN NO NEW THING UNDER THE SUN.

 

The earth WAS new when created! In the future once again He will make all things new! What sinner Solomon means is that IN this temporary world of fallen man, history repeats itself. It does not remotely have anything to do with some claim that God never does anything new or creates!

 

 

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IT HATH BEEN ALREADY OF OLD TIME WHICH WAS BEFORE US.

 

 

'Us' meaning Solomon and people alive then. NOT meaning before creation of the world and man!

 

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THERE WILL BE A 'NEW JERUSALEM'.  THERE IS THIS JERUSALEM.  WHAT MAKES YOU BELIEVE THERE WASN'T A 'PRIOR' JERUSALEM?

 

? Why raise such a silly strawman argument as if I did not think there was a city of Jerusalem on earth?

Yes God has made a new place for us, and it is also called Jerusalem-or New Jerusalem. Guess that shows you that Solomon did not mean what you thought!

 

 

[David1701]

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Yes, but IT WAS ALREADY THERE.  So again, True, the water was not separated from the land but GOD did not 'speak' them into BEING at that time, did He?  No, as you yourself MUST know as it is you yourself who just stated it.   

These are not my 'fairyland' words.  I am just stating/pointing out the obvious AND  Clearly WRITTEN for all who can see it as "it is WRITTEN",  and not only as they were taught. 

If one is not willing to be led,  then one is not able to grow and so won't.  The choice is ours.  I choose to 'seek' deeper and speak where I am led, so that I may be led further.  That means, lots of 'Nopes.  You don't understands.  You have that all wrongs.  That isn't what He meants.'  The list of attacks goes on and on.  


You believe that 'the earth' CAME INTO BEING by, well, I guess, JUST being there?  so I don't know, you haven't given me any scripture on the how when and whys of your belief but have only pointed out no belief on the how when and why scriptures I have posted.  

So the 'millions' of years of 'imaginary' time isn't 

JUST 'INSERTED' by me at all. 

IT HAD TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE, some 'time'

BECAUSE THERE IT IS. AND

GOD SAID HE DIDN'T CREATE IT THAT WAY

SO IT HAD TO BECOME THAT WAY. 

The BEING HE CREATED THE FULL PATTERN turned on Him and turned into AN  ADVERSARY, our Adversary,  SOMETIME BEFORE HE WAS THE SERPENT (an adversary) IN THE GARDEN


GOD gives us hints (arrows) all over the place, 

Ecclesiastes 1:8 All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 THE THING THAT HATH BEEN IT IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE AND THAT WHICH IS DONE IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE DONE AND THERE IN NO NEW THING UNDER THE SUN. 

Ecclesiastes 1:10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? IT HATH BEEN ALREADY OF OLD TIME WHICH WAS BEFORE US.  

Ecclesiastes 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

Ecclesiastes 1:12 I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.

Are these words TRUTH or are they NOT?   I didn't write these things. And God didn't write them just so that I could make some really good points and win an argument I'm sure. 

THERE WILL BE A 'NEW JERUSALEM'.  THERE IS THIS JERUSALEM.  WHAT MAKES YOU BELIEVE THERE WASN'T A 'PRIOR' JERUSALEM?  

Ever notice how God does things in 3's?  

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.


Hebrews 13

Let brotherly love continue. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body. Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Let us go forth therefore unto HIM without the camp, bearing his reproach.  For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. But to do good and to communicate forget not: FOR WITH SUCH SACRIFICES GOD IS WELL PLEASED.

 

D

Gen. 1:1 (WEB) 1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

That's the beginning - when God created the heavens and the earth.

Gen. 1:2 (WEB) The earth was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep and God’s Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters. 

This is the condition the earth was in, having just been created.  It was, as yet, unformed and unfilled.  God had also not created light yet.

Gen. 1:3-5 (WEB) 

3  God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
  4 God saw the light, and saw that it was good. God divided the light from the darkness.
  5 God called the light “day”, and the darkness he called “night”. There was evening and there was morning, the first day. 

Now God creates a light source (we're not told what it is) and the first day is not completed until after the first morning.  As we can see, days are really evening then morning, not vice versa.

Gen. 1:6-8 (WEB)

6  God said, “Let there be an expanse in the middle of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.”
  7 God made the expanse, and divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.
  8 God called the expanse “sky”. There was evening and there was morning, a second day. 

Now God begins to add structure and order to what he has created; in later verses, he starts to fill it with plants and living creatures, then, straight from the ground, he forms the first man, then takes the first woman out of the first man, making her from one of his ribs - all done in six days, each with an evening and a morning (i.e. literal days).

Edited September 22, 2021 by David1701

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

That's the beginning - when God created the heavens and the earth.

These words of God DIFFER from what you are stating.  

The heavens were created.  Sons of God were created.  Morning stars were created.  and they were singing and shouting for joy as the FOUNDATIOBNS OF THE EARTH WERE LAID.  

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


 

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

This is the condition the earth was in, having just been created.  It was, as yet, unformed and unfilled.  God had also not created light yet.

Again, this is not what the WORDS OF GOD tell us.  Of course, you can stick with what you think over that but God does speak on this subject in the MOST CLEAR TERMS.  

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD
THAT CREATED THE HEAVENS

GOD HIMSELF THAT FORMED THE EARTH AND MADE IT

HE HATH ESTABLISHED IT

HE CREATED IT NOT IN VAIN,

HE FORMED IT TO BE INHABITED

I am the LORD; and there is none else.

I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth

I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain:

I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

WHAT YOU ARE suggesting is a form of EVOLUTION.  

God SPEAKS things into existence. 

God did not speak 

'a null and void and in darkness mass of dirt covered by water' will be the beginning of earth. 

How do we know?  HE JUST TOLD US.  NOT in VAIN. 

These are not words that need to be interpreted.  They are pure and simple words GOD SAYS. I myself will not ever be saying to anyone that 'in vain' it was formed. 

D 


 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

15 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

HE CREATED IT NOT IN VAIN,

Therefore, the idea that there is some separate creation, that Gen 1:1 is a separate creation from 1:2 and therefore 1:1 is generally all we have on that creation, it was destroyed supposedly, well then that means that creation was in vain.

If what is going to happen is that everything is annihilated and He starts over from nothing, well then that something that gets annihilated, was in vain.

Things that are not in vain, last forever.

If, there is a literal city with streets of transparent gold literally on top
of the sky (which is hard like glass Job 37:18) that from since the beginning,
has been prepared and awaiting the time when this sky is destroyed,
that it may come down and be the ultimate physical residence of the Creator.
Well then the creation is not in vain, all is going as planned.

-------

Today the sun and moon are in perfect spots, such a beautiful day where I am today.
If you go outside right now in the morning, you can see them both very clearly right now together almost directly opposite one another.
Such a spectacular sighting does not fit with the globe model.
They are giant balls of plasma in the sky that rule over time.
In the 1960's there was a scientist who said he proved that the moon was a plasma just shortly before the supposed moon landing.

youtube com/watch ? v=XhIwZuPGfss

[David1701]

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

These words of God DIFFER from what you are stating.  

The heavens were created.  Sons of God were created.  Morning stars were created.  and they were singing and shouting for joy as the FOUNDATIOBNS OF THE EARTH WERE LAID.  

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?



 

As Genesis clearly states, in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 

It's quite possible that the heavens (including the angels) were created earlier on Day one than the earth.  This certainly does not contradict Genesis 1.

By the way, it is extremely bad hermeneutics to try to pit any passage of Scripture against another, especially not a poetic passage (Job) against a narrative passage (Gen. 1).

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Again, this is not what the WORDS OF GOD tell us.  Of course, you can stick with what you think over that but God does speak on this subject in the MOST CLEAR TERMS.  

My irony meter just broke. 

Quote

 

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD
THAT CREATED THE HEAVENS

GOD HIMSELF THAT FORMED THE EARTH AND MADE IT

HE HATH ESTABLISHED IT

HE CREATED IT NOT IN VAIN,

HE FORMED IT TO BE INHABITED

I am the LORD; and there is none else.

I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth

I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain:

I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

 

This passage in no way contradicts the clear teaching of the Genesis 1 narrative.

 

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WHAT YOU ARE suggesting is a form of EVOLUTION. 

Oh boy!  This kind of outrageous claim does not help proper discussion...

I'm not "suggesting" anything.  I'm simply believing what the Genesis 1 narrative states.  It certainly does not state "evolution"!

God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, over the course of six days.  He did not create it all on day one, nor is there a hint of evolution anywhere in the narrative.

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God SPEAKS things into existence. 

Yes, and...?

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God did not speak 

'a null and void and in darkness mass of dirt covered by water' will be the beginning of earth.

Where do you get "null" from?

The Bible states, very clearly, that the earth was unformed, unfilled and in darkness, on Day one of the creation week, until God created a light source. 

What makes you think that you know better than God?!

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How do we know?  HE JUST TOLD US.  NOT in VAIN. 

God did not create the earth in vain, he formed it to be inhabited.  Everyone agrees with that; so, what esoteric meaning are you placing upon these words, to arrive at your bizarre conclusion?

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These are not words that need to be interpreted.  They are pure and simple words GOD SAYS. I myself will not ever be saying to anyone that 'in vain' it was formed. 

D 

 

God created the earth to be inhabited, and, by the end of the creation week, it was inhabited by myriads of creatures, including one man and one woman.  What is your point???
 

James 3:1 (EMTV) My brothers, let not many become teachers, knowing that we shall receive greater judgment.

1 Tim. 2:11-14 (EMTV)

11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam first was formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, has come to be in transgression.

[dad2]

On 8/26/2021 at 4:05 AM, one.opinion said:

I think evolution is a tool that beautifully displays God’s creativity, power, and intricacy in His creation. It brings glory to Him.

It does not bring glory to anyone when they lied about how we came to exist. If one rejected what God told us about creation, and inserted evolution into the texts, that would be making God a liar.

[one.opinion]

58 minutes ago, dad2 said:

It does not bring glory to anyone when they lied about how we came to exist. If one rejected what God told us about creation, and inserted evolution into the texts, that would be making God a liar.

This is an arrogant and false position. Believing one’s own opinion to be the only possible explanation and regarding any disagreements as “lies” places an impossible burden on the personal intellect.

Was Jesus lying when He said “I am the door”?

[dad2]

1 hour ago, one.opinion said:

This is an arrogant and false position. Believing one’s own opinion to be the only possible explanation and regarding any disagreements as “lies” places an impossible burden on the personal intellect.

Was Jesus lying when He said “I am the door”?

We should try not to obfuscate issues, by comparing two things that have no resemblance or connection. Belief in the oft stated creation by God cannot be hammered into submission to the godless and evil theory of evolution. Yes Jesus is the way to heaven and eternal life. Yes he is the portal, the door. No one in their right mind would have thought He meant He was an actual wooden door.