How can we define the great falling away

[Michael37]

12 minutes ago, Who me said:

you mean you are not aare of the growing hostility and rejection of Christianity in society?

Count the number of seats in your church, now cout how many houses in the square mile around it.

Is your church running multiple services on a Sunday to fit people in or are there empty seats?

When groups such as Lutherans ordain transgender ministers and those in same sex relationships to lead congregations, attendance in their services actually indicates apostasy, whilst avoidance of such groups by Christians is a show of their faithfulness to God's Word.

[Mike Mclees]

27 minutes ago, Who me said:

you mean you are not aare of the growing hostility and rejection of Christianity in society?

Count the number of seats in your church, now cout how many houses in the square mile around it.

Is your church running multiple services on a Sunday to fit people in or are there empty seats?

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Who me said:

you mean you are not aare of the growing hostility and rejection of Christianity in society?

Count the number of seats in your church, now cout how many houses in the square mile around it.

Is your church running multiple services on a Sunday to fit people in or are there empty seats?

 

 

It is more of what I sense. and for broader reasons. I deliberately did not say any thing in my opening. I wanted to see other opinions first. I am not of any established church and have not been for several years now, but I never gave up my faith. I did my best to serve in other ways. I would say the established church is waning.  Of course scripture said it would. Jesus sais in the latter days the love of many would wax cold.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Mike Mclees

[R. Hartono]

On 9/14/2021 at 2:43 AM, Mike Mclees said:

2 Thessalonians 2:3    It says the man of sin won't be reveled except their be a falling away be first . It can be called apostasy or rebellion. The question is how will we know when it begins or ends. There is no time frame. There may  be varying opinions. How will we know it is happening?  Opinions please   

 

When nations accept Lgbt, abortion, unmarried couple living together, legalizing weeds, worship of Mary n saints, pastors use church money to buy jetplanes instead of jet pump, are some examples of falling away.

Edited September 19, 2021 by R. Hartono

[Mike Mclees]

6 hours ago, Michael37 said:

And then there are those who assert that the falling away from truth began with the establishment of Papal Rome, and the man of sin is none other than he who occupies the office of Pope.

Food for thought . . . annoys the tar out of die-hard Roman Catholics.

I would say yes the first great apostasy began with Constantine an the Bishops of Rome who lusted for power religiously and politically . I question though about the pope being 'thee' man of sin. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Mike Mclees

[Desopixi Seilynam]

Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,
giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons...  1 Tim 4:1

apostēsontai   "shall depart from"

So we can conclude that what Paul is speaking about in 2 Thess 2:3
is that same departing from the faith that he mentions in 1 Tim 4:1.

[Who me]

47 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

I am not of any established church

the norm for Christians is to meet together with other Christians, whether that is in a church building, part of an organisation or meeting in a house or hall doesn't matter.

 

I was referring to the number of seats in a local church compared to how many people live around it.

example in the church I attend we can seat two hundred people, yet there are 10,000 people living in the area around us.

 

Great falling away, has been happening for a long time.

[Mike Mclees]

28 minutes ago, Who me said:

the norm for Christians is to meet together with other Christians, whether that is in a church building, part of an organisation or meeting in a house or hall doesn't matter.

 

I was referring to the number of seats in a local church compared to how many people live around it.

example in the church I attend we can seat two hundred people, yet there are 10,000 people living in the area around us.

 

Great falling away, has been happening for a long time.

I can agree with that. The question is more Why. We could write a book on this. Like Media, government, the atheisms and the spirit of antichrist in the world. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Mike Mclees

[Arrabon]

9 hours ago, Kelly2363 said:

 

Then seeing as it is an undoubted truth that there are but a few - a remnant - that are eyes wide open and ears to hear - how much more important that they all fully embrace the Cross and set their faces to suffer for the sake of Christ that Christ be glorified in the many who are His sheep. If not we ourselves will be found to have boasted in vain.

@Kelly2363

For me, I embrace the cross by growing in Christ through His word daily, loving God His way, and loving those around me, His way, not perfectly by any means, but the best I know how until I get better at it, as I pray to God to help me, and be the voice of truth through me, to all who will listen. 

I am nothing without Him, and without  the Holy Spirit leading and guiding me in all wisdom and truth of His word.

[Arrabon]

6 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

I would say yes the first great apostasy began with Constantine an the Bishops of Rome who lusted for power religiously and politically . I question though about the pope being 'thee' man of sin. 

@Mike Mclees

If you study church history since Paul's time, you'll find the apostacy began a long time before the Catholic Church was thought of.

"Apostasy is to be expected
This should really be preached before apostasy occurs, to prevent people being taken by surprise when it does happen. The whole Old Testament is a story of Israel’s apostasy. In the New Testament, we have individual apostates such as Judas and Demas. Some in Corinth denied the resurrection, and some in Galatia went back to the law as a way of salvation. No wonder the Apostles urged the churches to expect apostasy (Acts 20:29-30; 1 Cor. 11:19; 1 Tim. 4:1; 5:8; Jude; 1 John 2:19)."

Edited September 14, 2021 by Arrabon

[Michael37]

10 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

I question though about the pope being 'thee' man of sin. 

Something about not living up to expectations can be said.

Given time the culprit will manifest:

(2Th 2:9)  The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

(Rev 13:11)  Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.
(Rev 13:12)  And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
(Rev 13:13)  He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
(Rev 13:14)  And he deceives those who dwell on the earth—by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.
(Rev 13:15)  He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
(Rev 13:16)  He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
(Rev 13:17)  and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
(Rev 13:18)  Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.