The test of the wise virgins is right now, but the test of the foolish is later.

[R. Hartono]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Agreed, with the exception of Moses and Elijah probably being the 2 Witnesses.

Moses n Elijah have met n witnessed Jesus ministry in Judea, who else ? They still hv their living bodies for end Times purpose of witnessing.

 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 10/21/2021 at 1:19 PM, WilliamL said:

Nothing in the passage of Daniel 9:24-27 can be demonstrated to have any unequivocal prophetic message for OUR time, despite the great deal of hype to the contrary. It doesn’t mention at all

 

– any “abomination of desolation of the Holy Place [Sanctuary]” (Matt. 24:15; cf. Deut. 7:25-26 and Dan. 11:31);

– the time of the end/latter time/latter days, or any similar term;

– the Great Tribulation/“time of trouble such as never was” (Dan. 12:1);

– the saints, or any flight of God’s people;

– Messiah’s coming in the clouds, Divine Judgment, and/or the establishment of God’s kingdom;

Daniel 9:26 "And after threescore and two captivities shall Messiah
suffer the death penalty, but not for Himself:"

Therefore we know that the rest of 26 and 27 definitely speaks
of things that happen after the death and resurrection of the Messiah.

And therefore it is referring to the abomination of desolation
by saying "cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.."

Daniel 11:31 says the same thing "shall take away the daily sacrifice.."

The kingdom is mentioned in Daniel 9:24;
"to bring in everlasting righteousness.. and to anoint the most Holy".
To anoint Him as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
First He suffers the death penalty, but nor for Himself; Daniel 9:26.

Then "the people of the prince that shall come",
that is, the people of the anti-Christ,
"shall destroy the city and the sanctuary"

"And the end thereof will be with a flood"

"the dragon opened his mouth and sent out a river of water
as a flood after the woman" Revelation 12:15

 

Daniel 9:24-27 is indeed very clearly speaking about the Messiah
and then end times events. It's talking about 70 captivities that
are determined upon Israel and the children of Israel.
In the middle of which the Messiah suffers the death penalty,
but not for Himself.

[WilliamL]

On 11/1/2021 at 5:46 PM, R. Hartono said:

Moses n Elijah have met n witnessed Jesus ministry in Judea, who else ? They still hv their living bodies for end Times purpose of witnessing.

 

Moses and Elijah represented the Law and the Prophets of the dispensation/Age of the Law, which ended at the First Coming of the Messiah.

We are now in the Church Age, with a different priesthood and law. Therefore, it is appropriate that the two witnesses represent the end of this age, just and Moses and Elijah appeared in the Transfiguration to represent the end of their age.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I highly suspect that John the Apostle will be one of the two witnesses, to fulfill the prophecy of this verse:

Rev. 10:11 And he said to me, “You must prophesy again before many peoples, nations, tongues, and kings.”

[WilliamL]

On 11/2/2021 at 5:09 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Therefore we know that the rest of 26 and 27 definitely speaks
of things that happen after the death and resurrection of the Messiah.

Agreed.

On 11/2/2021 at 5:09 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

And therefore it is referring to the abomination of desolation
by saying "cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.."

Daniel 11:31 says the same thing "shall take away the daily sacrifice.."

False presumptions here, based upon a lack of knowledge or amisunderstanding of history. The latter verse is, by all knowledgeable historians, said to be a clear reference to the events during the time of Antiochus Epiphanes, who fulfilled this passage of Daniel 11 to a T.

Regarding the first sentence, the phrase "abomination of desolation" is not found in Daniel 9:27 in the original Hebrew text, which has been widely misquoted and misinterpreted. For the evidence for this, anyone here may read "Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 5: Verse 27," here:  https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1598-daniel-924-27-examined-part-5-verse-27/

On 11/2/2021 at 5:09 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Then "the people of the prince that shall come",
that is, the people of the anti-Christ,
"shall destroy the city and the sanctuary"

"And the end thereof will be with a flood"

"the dragon opened his mouth and sent out a river of water
as a flood after the woman" Revelation 12:15

More misunderstandings and false presumptions. All of the above prophecies of Daniel were literally fulfilled to a T at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple in 66-70 A.D. Again, the evidence for this may be found here:

45. Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 7: Were Verses 26b-27 Fulfilled Historically?

Tests the view that the seven prophesied events were fulfilled during the Jewish War of 66-73 A.D. Also, explains the reason for the time-gap between the 69th and 70th weeks.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

[R. Hartono]

On 11/8/2021 at 1:47 AM, WilliamL said:

Agreed.

False presumptions here, based upon a lack of knowledge or amisunderstanding of history. The latter verse is, by all knowledgeable historians, said to be a clear reference to the events during the time of Antiochus Epiphanes, who fulfilled this passage of Daniel 11 to a T.

Regarding the first sentence, the phrase "abomination of desolation" is not found in Daniel 9:27 in the original Hebrew text, which has been widely misquoted and misinterpreted. For the evidence for this, anyone here may read "Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 5: Verse 27," here:  https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1598-daniel-924-27-examined-part-5-verse-27/

More misunderstandings and false presumptions. All of the above prophecies of Daniel were literally fulfilled to a T at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple in 66-70 A.D. Again, the evidence for this may be found here:

45. Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 7: Were Verses 26b-27 Fulfilled Historically?

Tests the view that the seven prophesied events were fulfilled during the Jewish War of 66-73 A.D. Also, explains the reason for the time-gap between the 69th and 70th weeks.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

There has never been any 7 years peace deal between Israel - Arab in history.

 

[WilliamL]

On 11/9/2021 at 2:45 AM, R. Hartono said:

There has never been any 7 years peace deal between Israel - Arab in history.

 

Which is entirely irrelevant, since Daniel 9 does not mention Arabs at all. Nor implies them in any way. Your point?

[R. Hartono]

5 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Which is entirely irrelevant, since Daniel 9 does not mention Arabs at all. Nor implies them in any way. Your point?

My point is the fact that Israel is surrounded by Arabs and make wars with them since they cross the Red Sea to Judea. Until now 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 11/7/2021 at 12:47 PM, WilliamL said:

False presumptions here, based upon a lack of knowledge or a misunderstanding of history. The latter verse is, by all knowledgeable historians,

I'm going off of scripture only.

Clearly the two passages speak about the daily sacrifice being taken away,
and about abomination and desolation.

 

"cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.."

"shall take away the daily sacrifice.."

 

"for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate"

"armies shall stand on his part...
and they shall place the abomination that makes desolation"

 

Clearly the two passages are speaking about the same thing.

 

"abomination of desolation" is not the phrase,
it's abomination that causes desolation in both passages.

-------

If it all happened in 70 A.D. why are we still able to read the vision?
"..to seal up the vision and prophecy.."

To say that it all came to pass in 70 A.D. is to assert that Daniel 9:24
is fulfilled and the most Holy is anointed, sin has ended,
and everlasting righteousness has been brought in.

Indeed one would say something like, Christ did all that on the cross,
and yes He did spiritually, but it is to be fulfilled actually physically.
And it is clear that Daniel, the book of Daniel, is referring to that actual
physical kingdom; Daniel 2:44, 7:27. In context of the book,
Daniel 9:24 is saying that after 70 somethings,
that eternal kingdom of God, mentioned in the previous visions, would be established. That eternal kingdom [Rev 21:1-2] has not been established yet,
so we know Daniel 9:24-27 has not fully come to pass yet.

I am interpreting "weeks" as "captivities".
Due to the context of Daniel 9:2, Jeremiah 25:12,18 and 2 Chronicles 36,
it is clear that Daniel was concerned about the end of the 70 year captivity
he was in, and the resulting destruction of Jerusalem; Jeremiah 25:18, Daniel 9:3-19
and so what Gabriel comes and tells Daniel is within the context of the captivity,
it is not random future info, Daniel is told that 70 such 70 year captivities would happen, ending with everlasting righteousness; the establishment of Gods eternal kingdom, as he saw in previous visions; 2:44, 7:27. So that's some 4,900 years,
in about the middle of which... the Messiah suffers the death penalty, but not for Himself..... 70 A.D. was the end of one of the captivities.  We can't conclude that they happen back to back, just that there will be 70 captivities.
I believe that one seeing things correctly will come to the clear realization
that another captivity started in 1967. The end thereof will be the destruction of Jerusalem and other cities around the world; ww3.

 

 

[WilliamL]

You are welcome to your views. Since you did not include chapter and verse numbers, I won't bother to try to sort this out. Will just say that some of your translations of the Hebrew are not accurate.

I have explained, word-by-word, the Hebrew grammar and text of Daniel 9:24-27 beginning here, for anyone willing to put it the study:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1568-daniel-924-27-examined-part-1-verse-24/

 

[R. Hartono]

On 11/25/2021 at 3:44 AM, WilliamL said:

You are welcome to your views. Since you did not include chapter and verse numbers, I won't bother to try to sort this out. Will just say that some of your translations of the Hebrew are not accurate.

I have explained, word-by-word, the Hebrew grammar and text of Daniel 9:24-27 beginning here, for anyone willing to put it the study:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1568-daniel-924-27-examined-part-1-verse-24/

 

Either we are the wise or the foolish virgins both should fulfill the prophecy, to be taken to the wedding or to be left behind !