Two questions for pretribulationists

[JoeCanada]

21 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

After the rapture of the Church those who are not believers will go into the 7 year tribulation. Many of those people will come to God during the 7 years. Most of them will be killed as martyrs by the Antichrist for their belief in God. Those people will be the tribulation saints. 

Hi mm,

You do know that scripture teaches that the great trib is 3 1/2 years and not 7. The antichrist will have a reign of 42 months, or 3 1/2 years. 

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi mm,

You do know that scripture teaches that the great trib is 3 1/2 years and not 7. The antichrist will have a reign of 42 months, or 3 1/2 years. 

Daniel and the book of Revelation teaches a 7 year tribulation. So suit yourself. I would rather go on the true literal teachings of the Holy Bible. 

[JoeCanada]

Just now, missmuffet said:

Daniel and the book of Revelation teaches a 7 year tribulation. So suit yourself. I would rather go on the true literal teachings of the Holy Bible. 

I would like to see scriptures for that.

There is a 70th week of Daniel, which is 7 years, but the great  tribulation itself is only 3 1/2 years.

[missmuffet]

8 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

I would like to see scriptures for that.

There is a 70th week of Daniel, which is 7 years, but the great  tribulation itself is only 3 1/2 years.

I have posted soooo many scriptures for that on Worthy. Perhaps you can find them on the search engine. 

[WilliamL]

On 12/30/2021 at 6:06 PM, truth7t7 said:

The reading in Revelation 12:4 is past tense, as satan through King Herod tried to destroy the child (Jesus) when he was born long ago

To say so is to deny the previous prophecies of Revelation. Everything after Rev. 4:1 is future to John's time:

Jesus told John,

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which you have seen [past], and the things which are [present], and the things which will take place after these [future].

“The things seen” (by John up to that point) are told in Revelation 1:9-20.

“The things which are” – that is, that were taking place at the time of John’s visions – are told in Revelation 2-3, when Jesus tells each of the 7 churches, “I know your works.”

Then, beginning in Revelation 4, we find:

Revelation 4:1 After these things I looked and beheld a door standing open in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show thee things which must take place after these things.

Everything John was shown from Revelation 4:1 onward is “after” – that is, future from – his day. This includes everything in chapter 12. The birth and ascent of the Manchild that John saw in Revelation 12:5 are future; although the birth and ascent of Jesus were of the same pattern and type. Jesus himself tells us who the Manchild shall be:

Revelation 2:26-27 The one overcoming, and the one keeping my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: and he shall shepherd/pastor them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to pieces: as I also have received from my Father.

Revelation 12:5 She bore a Manchild, who is about to shepherd/pastor all nations with a rod of iron.

Revelation 12:7-11 then reveals that this Manchild, a collective body, being the elect-of-the-elect overcomers, will participate in the casting down of Satan and his angels out of heaven:

Revelation 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon [Satan]… 11 And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their souls unto death.

The “they” of verse 11 cannot refer to any immortal angels, only to men. They can only be the ascended and empowered overcomers of Revelation 2:26, having been cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

To say so is to deny the previous prophecies of Revelation. Everything after Rev. 4:1 is future to John's time:

Jesus told John,

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which you have seen [past], and the things which are [present], and the things which will take place after these [future].

“The things seen” (by John up to that point) are told in Revelation 1:9-20.

“The things which are” – that is, that were taking place at the time of John’s visions – are told in Revelation 2-3, when Jesus tells each of the 7 churches, “I know your works.”

Then, beginning in Revelation 4, we find:

Revelation 4:1 After these things I looked and beheld a door standing open in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show thee things which must take place after these things.

Everything John was shown from Revelation 4:1 onward is “after” – that is, future from – his day. This includes everything in chapter 12. The birth and ascent of the Manchild that John saw in Revelation 12:5 are future; although the birth and ascent of Jesus were of the same pattern and type. Jesus himself tells us who the Manchild shall be:

Revelation 2:26-27 The one overcoming, and the one keeping my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: and he shall shepherd/pastor them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to pieces: as I also have received from my Father.

Revelation 12:5 She bore a Manchild, who is about to shepherd/pastor all nations with a rod of iron.

Revelation 12:7-11 then reveals that this Manchild, a collective body, being the elect-of-the-elect overcomers, will participate in the casting down of Satan and his angels out of heaven:

Revelation 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon [Satan]… 11 And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their souls unto death.

The “they” of verse 11 cannot refer to any immortal angels, only to men. They can only be the ascended and empowered overcomers of Revelation 2:26, having been cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

Satan was on earth when Jesus Christ was tempted 40 days/nights

Jesus in Luke 10:18 stated he witnessed satan fall from heaven

You want me to believe Michael and Satan will have a future battle in heaven, as Jesus Christ sits at the right hand of God watching? Smiles

Edited January 5, 2022 by truth7t7

[WilliamL]

On 1/4/2022 at 5:02 PM, truth7t7 said:

Satan was on earth when Jesus Christ was tempted 40 days/nights

Jesus in Luke 10:18 stated he witnessed satan fall from heaven

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Satan has been going to and from heaven for many an age. However, no amount of evidence from me or Joe Canada or Da Puppers will convince you about these things, so you are welcome to your opinion.

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Satan has been going to and from heaven for many an age. However, no amount of evidence from me or Joe Canada or Da Puppers will convince you about these things, so you are welcome to your opinion.

The Sons of G9d were human men, satan was cast to earth long ago, and he doesn't have access to the place of Gods abode in heaven

[Montana Marv]

On 12/8/2021 at 10:06 AM, JoeCanada said:

1) Pretribulation claims that believers would lose their blessed hope if they were persecuted by the Antichrist, then by that reasoning they must believe that so-called “tribulation saints” will lose their blessed hope since they will be persecuted by the Antichrist.

My question: please give me one passage where “tribulation saints” lose their blessed hope.

One passage will suffice.

 

2) The Church in Kenya..... Tragically, 9 Christians were recently murdered in Kenya for refusing to recite the Islamic Creed thereby denying their faith in Jesus.

So.... how is this any different than when the Antichrist will murder Christians when they refuse to deny their faith?

The Antichrist's great tribulation will NOT be God's wrath..... rather, it will be Satan's end-time wrath against the church and Israel, when he is kicked out of heaven.

 

 

Who says they lose their blessed hope.  They rise again and reign with Christ 1000 years (Re 20:4)

But they were not boiled, sawed to two, crucified , eaten by beasts as some of the Apostles were.

When Satan is kicked out of Heaven who will be there to place accusations on the brothers (Church) before the Throne, day and night.  Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them. He is filled with fury, because he knows his time is short (Rev 12:12)

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

On 12/31/2021 at 11:32 AM, JoeCanada said:

I would like to see scriptures for that.

There is a 70th week of Daniel, which is 7 years, but the great  tribulation itself is only 3 1/2 years.

3 1/2 years of so called peace on earth. They follow the beast who had the fatal wound and lived again (Rev 13).  Followed by 3 1/2 years of total chaos, fury by Satan (the Great Tribulation). Which includes the Wrath of God.

In Christ

Montana Marv