Is "The Law" a Curse?

[Jayne]

2 hours ago, Bawb said:

Have you read Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish The Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill (pleroo) them. ¹⁸ For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. ¹⁹ Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. ²⁰ For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Yes, I am very familiar with this passage. He isn't saying that the Old Testament law is going  to be in effect forever, but that HE would fulfill it.

Jesus said that he was coming to fulfill the law.  And he did.   He was the only one who could.  He fulfilled all the legal obligations, the moral ones, and yet ..... he also took on himself the punishment of the law.  

Because Jesus Christ fulfilled the law - in every way - it is over.  I didn't make that up.  That's what the Bible says.

• Romans 10:4 = "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."  The law is not timeless nor universal.  It cannot save.  

The law served a purpose.  It kept the Israelites spiritually separate from other people groups and made them God's special people.  Exodus 19:5.  And it helped to show what sin is and what holiness is.  Leviticus 20:7-8  But it was only a shadow of Christ to come.  Hebrews 10:1.

But mostly importantly for New Testament Christians, Galatians 4:19-21 says that the law was to reveal what sin was UNTIL the “S”eed came – Jesus Christ, the redeem from sin.  The law does not oppose the promises of God, but the law has nothing to do with salvation.

The Old Testament is VITAL to be read by Christians.  ALL of it.  I am currently teaching the minor prophets in Sunday School.  I learned the love of the Old Testament from my father.  But the laws for the Israelites in the Old Testament do not apply to Christans.  

Tell me - do you wear your wear with long sideburns that you never cut?  Do you wear clothing made of only one fiber?  If you have a rebellious son - do you stone him to death?  If you have an immoral daughter - do you burn her to death?  Do you and  your whole  family wear blue tassels on  your clothes?  Do  you bring a priest to your home if you find some mildew?

Which is the laws do you keep and why?

 

[other one]

3 hours ago, Bawb said:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/272584-what-is-the-law/

 

So, you are saying we should live by all the laws of the old testament? Is that is what the New Testament scriptures that are spoken of in this thread are speaking of when it says "The Law"?

[missmuffet]

20 hours ago, Bawb said:

What is the curse of the law in Galatians 3:10-13?

“The law is a curse!” You probably have heard that a lot of times from teachers and preachers who argue that the law of God has already been done away with — that we are no longer under the law and thus, we are free from doing whatever we want to do.

The primary verse people use to support their argument is Galatians 3:10 through 13 - 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”).

From these verses, people draw misguided conclusions such as:

    1. Anyone who follows the law would be under a curse.
    2. The law of God is a curse.
    3. We are justified by faith and there’s no need to perform the works of the law.

Are these conclusions accurate? Let’s see...

The first thing we must take note of is what Galatians 3:10-13 really says and not what it doesn’t say.

Undoubtedly, Paul mentioned the “curse of the law” in verse 13. However, what Paul didn’t say is that the law is the curse. What He was saying is that there’s a curse pronounced by the law, but the law was NEVER a curse itself!

Now, since there’s a curse of the law, who are those people who receive this curse?

The Apostle Paul gave us the answer in verse 10: “Cursed is everyone who does NOT continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

Did you get that? Paul was saying that there’s a curse of the law and this curse is cast on those people who DOES NOT follow the law of God!

What popular Christianity teaches today completely missed the point of Paul. They are saying that those who keep the law will be under a curse. Yet, the Bible tells us something that is contrary to this popular belief! Instead those people who keep the law will be under curse, Paul was saying that those who do not keep the law are the ones who are under a curse!

What a great difference!

So, what was the main point of Paul in Galatians 3:10-13?

His main point is that anyone who breaks the commandment and law of God is under a curse. Those who sin would be guilty and will incur the penalty of the law, which is death: Romans 6:23 - “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”

Death is the curse of the law. Galatians 3:10 is actually quoted from Deuteronomy 27:26: Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Galatians 3:13 is reminiscent to Deuteronomy 21:22-23: “If a man has committed a sin deserving of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God.”

Everyone of us is like the man who has “committed a sin deserving of death” referred to these verses. Because of this, all of us deserve to be hung on a tree, suffer the death penalty, and become a “cursed” sinner.

Since we all sinned, we deserve the penalty or curse of the law, which is death. However, Jesus Christ or Yeshua perfectly kept the law and thus, He is not under the curse of the law. He didn’t deserve any death penalty.

Just like what Paul said in Galatians 3:13, “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law.”

Instead of us, dying for our sins, Christ died for us. Yeshua “bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness” (1 Peter 2:24).

That’s the meaning of Galatians 3:10-13. As a summary, Paul was saying here that those people who don’t keep the law and transgress it will be under the curse of the law, which is DEATH.

However, because of the great love of God for us, Yeshua came to die on our behalf. He bore the full penalty and curse of the law and died for us so that we might live for righteousness.

Galatians 3:10-13 DOES NOT AND NEVER DID SAY that we are not to keep the law of God anymore!

Furthermore, those who falsely state the "Old Testament" was done away with and is no longer valid or applies to "Christians" really need to look at this! VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

https://www.bible.ca/manuscripts/List-of-300-Old-Testament-passage-quotes-in-New-Testament-Septuagint-Codex-Vaticanus-LXX-Masoretic-MT-Jewish-Tanakh-Bible.htm

Jesus Christ came to fulfill all the righteous requirements of the law. The law's comdemnation doesn't fall on us. Romans 8:2. 

[Bawb]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

It's not complicated. Paul specifies the context of his commentary: New Testament writers repeated appealed to the Law and taught it to both Jewish and Gentile converts to Christ, primarily in principle over the letter. 

Well said! The problem is the attitude that The Law is only for the Jews or if they follow the law, they are saved. But since we believe in the Messiah, we are under a Different Law or no Law at all.

The main problem with this line of reasoning is the fact that "The Law" doesn't save anybody, Jew or Gentile. Abraham was considered righteous by his Belief. Christians put on the Coat of Righteousness in Messiah.

Perfectly good rules and instructions to live by were given to the Hebrews on Mount Sinai. The problems arose when God's chosen people did not obey the rules and "whored after other gods". So The Father gave them over to the heathen around them by means of slavery. Numerous things happened that led to their captivity into Babylon. And giving credit where credit is due, the Pharisees coming out of Babylon did preserve the law. But they also distorted, added to and took away from the Law just like you mentioned. The Rabbi's "Laws" were the Heavy Yoke with their Laws and customs of men. These are also what Yeshua spoke against.

Now going to the other side of the cross timeline, we had the original Apostles keeping and observing the Laws as Yeshua told them to. But were these the same Laws as the Rabbi's? A commonly mistranslated in Matthew 23:1 through 3 - 1Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples: 2 “The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

The word "they" was not in the original Hebrew scrolls. The word should have been translated to"HE". This makes an enormous difference! It is a common misconception, but Yeshua was not teaching His Disciples to obey the Pharisees! The "He" Yeshua was speaking of was MOSES. So to paraphrase, "The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So practice and observe everything HE TOLD you. (Who's seat? Moses' seat) (Who told you? Moses told you!)

So the Apostles had the Law of Moses "The Commandments" and the belief in Yeshua. This is what they preached.

And then the Gentile Romans took this original and pure belief and distorted it. Sometimes this was due to not knowing the language and mistranslating it and other times on purpose to eradicate any "Jewishness" to their version of Christianity. Again credit where credit is due, the Romans preserved the Word. But in the case of the Romans, they, just like the Pharisees and Rabbi's, added to and took away. Their pagan beliefs and customs were syncretized into the doctrine of "THE WAY". And in order to justify their additions, they took away much of the Law that the original Apostles AND Yeshua kept. This evolved into what was called the UNIVERSAL church.

Aaand here WE are today trying to unpack this just like Yeshua was. Glory to YeHoVah that His Word was preserved. Although not always perfectly by men.

[Bawb]

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

 

Yes, I am very familiar with this passage. He isn't saying that the Old Testament law is going to be in effect forever, but that HE would fulfill it. You're correct. Until Heaven and Earth pass away... That's when the law will end.

Jesus said that he was coming to fulfill the law.  And he did.   He was the only one who could.  He fulfilled all the legal obligations, the moral ones, and yet ..... he also took on himself the punishment of the law.  

Because Jesus Christ fulfilled the law - in every way - it is over.  Have heaven and earth passed away? What about the jots and tittles? Still there.

I didn't make that up.  That's what the Bible says. Kind of but not...

Romans 10:4 = "For Christ is the (telos) end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." 

This is a wrong translation and interpretation.

The word "end" used here in the Greek is "telos" or the 'end, 'purpose', 'goal' or 'intent' Not Termination.

A correct translation therefore would be "For Christ is the GOAL of the law".

When using the same word "telos" in other Scriptures such as

1 Timothy 1:5 - The goal (telos) of our instruction is the love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere belief. Are we ENDING instruction here?

1 Peter 1:9 - Now that you are receiving the goal (telos) of your belief, the salvation of your souls. Are you ENDING your belief?

The law served a purpose.  It kept the Israelites spiritually separate from other people groups and made them God's special people.  Exodus 19:5.  And it helped to show what sin is and what holiness is.  Leviticus 20:7-8  But it was only a shadow of Christ to come.  Hebrews 10:1. God kept them separate. The Law could not do anything. That's why it was written in our hearts in the New Covenant instead of on stone.

But mostly importantly for New Testament Christians, Galatians 4:19-21 says that the law was to reveal what sin was UNTIL the “S”eed came – Jesus Christ, the redeem from sin.  The law does not oppose the promises of God, but the law has nothing to do with salvation. The Law still reveals sin...

The Old Testament is VITAL to be read by Christians.  ALL of it.  I am currently teaching the minor prophets in Sunday School.  I learned the love of the Old Testament from my father.  But the laws for the Israelites in the Old Testament do not apply to Christans.  Where is this written??? What scripture says that?

 

Tell me - do you wear your (Hair?) wear with long sideburns that you never cut?  Beard, and the correct translation is "mar" as in what the heathens did to THEIR beards by plucking out the hairs.

Do you wear clothing made of only one fiber? Do you know why someone would do that? The fact is, the ephod of the Levitical priest was made of linen and dyed thread (Exodus 28:6–8; 39:4–5). The dyed thread would have been made of wool. This is probably the key to understanding the prohibition. The ephod of the priest was the only garment that could be woven of linen and wool. No one else was allowed to have such a garment. Possibly, this rule was to place some distance between the priest and the people, with the ultimate purpose of reminding Israel of how holy God truly is. So, I ask you, "Are we now training to be "Kings and Priests"?

If you have a rebellious son - do you stone him to death?  If you have an immoral daughter - do you burn her to death?  There is more to just stoning and burning according to the Levitical system. It too is based on common sense practices Yeshua demonstrated with the woman caught in adultery. There has to be witnesses, there has to be a council, there has to be a TEMPLE. None of these things are in place, so we are not required to do so.

Do you and your whole family wear blue tassels on your clothes? Tzitzit... Tassels are for curtains.

Do you bring a priest to your home if you find some mildew? You mean a Levitical priest? Again we can't be required to do something if it no longer exists. Sadducees were not of the tribe of Levi. 

Which is the laws do you keep and why? I keep the ones I am physically able to. Because I love Yeshua and YeHoVah John 14:15 - If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Bawb

[Bawb]

Just now, Josheb said:

Thank you. 

I don't mean to be contentious but there are no problems when the law is understood as I posted. 
 

Be contentious, cantankerous I'm okay with it. But I agreed with what you stated.

[Bawb]

1 hour ago, other one said:

So, you are saying we should live by all the laws of the old testament? Is that is what the New Testament scriptures that are spoken of in this thread are speaking of when it says "The Law"?

Don't listen to what I say. What does the Bible say? We are to do the laws we can. Abba-Yah would not expect us to do the laws we can't...

Deuteronomy 30:11 and 12 - For this commandment I give you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12It is not in heaven, that you should need to ask, ‘Who will ascend into heaven to get it for us and proclaim it, that we may obey it?

Edited December 29, 2021 by Bawb

[adamjedgar]

i dissagree that Gods law is not going to be in effect forever..that is a false assumption that is easily proven 100% wrong.

 

Genesis 2 16And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”

 

So i have to ask, if the plan of salvation is to redeem us to the creator and the perfection before the fall of man, how is it that God commanded Adam in Genesis Chapter 2? (Adam and Eve sinned in chapter 3)

 

Lets now go to the very last book of the bible cannon...

Rev 14:12

12Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

 

Now to top it off, remember what Jesus said to the women taken in adultery...

John 8:11 “Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

 

Now i ask those who are willing to ignore doctrine for a minute and simply reply directly to the texts quoted above...what does it mean to "leave ones life of sin"? Is that not a two part requirement...choosing to believe in the testimony of Jesus (faith) and to make a choice not to engage in sinful activities by not committing adultery, not coveting, not bearing false witness, not killing etc (thus we are being asked to also "try" to keep the commandments of God).

 

There should not be any Sabbath keeping christian being blamed as a works based salvation advocate because they keep the commandments of God. Works based salvation is not even possible...we are cannot save ourselves...we have never been able to save ourselves, we are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and his dying on the cross for us. It is through faith in that event that we believe and are saved.

Even Abraham (OT) was saved by faith...The apostle Paul dedicates and entire chapter to Abrahams faith and salvation...see Romans Chapter 4!

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by adamjedgar

[Bawb]

Hosea 4:6 - My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you as My priests. Since you have forgotten the law of your God, I will also forget your children.

[Bawb]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

Jesus Christ came to fulfill all the righteous requirements of the law. The law's comdemnation doesn't fall on us. Romans 8:2. 

Yep! That official death warrant that is against each of us because of our sins was nailed to the cross.

Grace overrules the authority of sin, giving us power to obey God's law. This is the effective reason that we are not under the law's guilt and condemnation and also why Paul states that we will not continue to sin.

Romans 8:1 through 5 - 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh.4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

What does the flesh do?

What does the Spirit do?

Edited December 29, 2021 by Bawb