He that leadeth into captivity into captivity shall they go ???

[R. Hartono]

1 hour ago, tatwo said:

There are a number of you that have become overtly cantankerous…in nearly any sub you participate in…it’s disappointing because some of these topics are both important and exciting.

It really doesn't matter what anyone says here...the division is unbridled…don’t fool yourselves as the Pharisee’s did/do…consider the picture of Christ you people paint here. No one can take you serious spiritually…you don’t even take each other seriously, you mock and taunt one another as children or the carnally immature. You present a visual picture of a beggarly people whose house is on fire, and things are dire and desperate.

What you are doing is a dead work…not Christ…it does not build the kingdom of God, but rather tears down yourselves and others…repentance is now required…or you will heap upon yourself exactly what you put on each other.

Tatwo...:(

People have different views.

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, tatwo said:

There are a number of you that have become overtly cantankerous…in nearly any sub you participate in…it’s disappointing because some of these topics are both important and exciting.

It really doesn't matter what anyone says here...the division is unbridled…don’t fool yourselves as the Pharisee’s did/do…consider the picture of Christ you people paint here. No one can take you serious spiritually…you don’t even take each other seriously, you mock and taunt one another as children or the carnally immature. You present a visual picture of a beggarly people whose house is on fire, and things are dire and desperate.

What you are doing is a dead work…not Christ…it does not build the kingdom of God, but rather tears down yourselves and others…repentance is now required…or you will heap upon yourself exactly what you put on each other.

Tatwo...:(

Ephesians 6:10-12KJV

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

[tatwo]

11 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Ephesians 6:10-12KJV

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Yes...but you wrestle against flesh and blood truth7t7, and apparently cannot see it.

Have all of that you can get sir...there's plenty to go around.

[truth7t7]

On 1/22/2022 at 6:08 PM, R. Hartono said:

@Josheb Will people of nations around the globe accept a one world government led by antichrist ? There may come resistance in each nations to rebell against this NWO and you may organize armed patriots to try to capture your government leaders /NWO pawns supporting antichrist government, but later your rebellion will be fought back and you will end up in captivity.

@truth7t7

@AdHoc

The two Witnesses,the prophets returned will be rulers in the tribulation, bringing all plagues often as the will, just like Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt 

It's not going to be the Antichrist in control,it's Gods empowered two witnesses that are in control

[AdHoc]

On 1/23/2022 at 3:08 AM, R. Hartono said:

@Josheb Will people of nations around the globe accept a one world government led by antichrist ? There may come resistance in each nations to rebell against this NWO and you may organize armed patriots to try to capture your government leaders /NWO pawns supporting antichrist government, but later your rebellion will be fought back and you will end up in captivity.

@truth7t7

@AdHoc

No doubt there will be resistance. But anyone refusing the Beast will be killed (Rev.13:15).

[AdHoc]

14 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Correction: Anyone refusing to worship the beast was killed.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, you are correct. But if you apply that rule, then you create a huge problem for yourself. Note the tense of this;

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Chapt 21)

So, by your reckoning he New Heaven, New Earth and New Jerusalem came in John's lifetime.

But then you must ignore this ...

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne ... (Chapt.4)

John, alive on Patmos, is shown things that "must be hereafter". And the next verse is past tense. So either New Jerusalem has come - in John's lifetime, OR, John saw something of the future and reported what he saw in the past tense.

I'll stick to this understanding.

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

I do not. No problems are created with proper exegesis. Wanton copy-and-paste eisegesis is what creates those "problems". 

Chapter 13, not chapter 21, not chapter 4. They are all part of the same what has been seen, what is, and what will happen afterwards. They are NOT all "hereafter." 

Yep. And ALL of it is couched between the two "at hands". 

 

Most (not all) that was future for them is past for us. The beast and the deaths of those who did not worship the beast was future for them but is past for us. That is especially so for all the specifics mentioned in this opening post. NWO is irrelevant to Rev. 13:10. 

 

Your exegesis is hidden through non-response when challenged and questioned, as seen in the question below, 1 week in non-response

Question: Do you see the event described below as the end of human mortal life, or does this mortal life continue on this earth?

Matthew 13:37-43KJV

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Edited February 4, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

Chapter 13, not chapter 21, not chapter 4. They are all part of the same what has been seen, what is, and what will happen afterwards. They are NOT all "hereafter." 

Yep. And ALL of it is couched between the two "at hands". 

 

Most (not all) that was future for them is past for us. The beast and the deaths of those who did not worship the beast was future for them but is past for us. That is especially so for all the specifics mentioned in this opening post. NWO is irrelevant to Rev. 13:10. 

 

When has or will Chapters 13/21 taken/take place, please explain, when, where, how?

Edited February 4, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Post hoc argument. 

Whenever it was, it was near to the time the revelation was disclosed. That's what the scripture itself teaches. 

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is at hand.

Revelation 1:19
Therefore, write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things. 

Revelation 22:10-11
And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy." 

 

That is when it happened. That is what the scriptures state. What the scriptures state is what I believe. I don't follow men who had difficulty accepting what was written and felt the need to interpret what is plainly stated so that it means something other than what is stated. I don't buy into the arm-crossed huffing fals- indignation of "When did it happen?" because scripture tells us quite plainly when it happened and the appeal to after-the-fact interpretations that don't meet doctrinal expectation and defining scripture by secular history instead of the other way around are fallacious arguments. Trying to put everything in the last third of Rev. 1:19 and then make that last third contradict verse 1:3 and 22:10 is neither scriptural nor

Scripture states what it states. 

Read it, accept it, believe it, and act upon it based first on what it Be as critical of those who change God's words as you are of my posts. 

Revelation 22:18-20
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.  He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen.

I strongly urge everyone not to add or subtract from the book, especially those who believe it's all our future because that is an addition to what is stated. According to verses 1:3 and 22:10 Rev. 13:10 was "at hand," near to the time the revelation was revealed. God never used the phrase "en gys" to mean anything other than near in time and space and post hoc inquiries don't change those facts.

 

 

 

Now let's see if some parity will be provided or whether this will be another set of exchanges that's one-sided. Does Revelation 1:3 state we should "heed the things which are written in it; for the time is at hand," or not? The answer requires only one single simple word. I'm not asking for much.

 

You didnt answer the questions explaining "Where" and "When" the events of revelation 13:4-8 seen below, have taken place or will take place?

If you believe the events seen below have taken place and are fulfilled, "Where" and "When" on earth did this take place?

Revelation 13:4-8KJV

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Edited February 4, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Post hoc argument. 

Whenever it was, it was near to the time the revelation was disclosed. That's what the scripture itself teaches. 

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is at hand.

Revelation 1:19
Therefore, write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things. 

Revelation 22:10-11
And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy." 

 

That is when it happened. That is what the scriptures state. What the scriptures state is what I believe. I don't follow men who had difficulty accepting what was written and felt the need to interpret what is plainly stated so that it means something other than what is stated. I don't buy into the arm-crossed huffing fals- indignation of "When did it happen?" because scripture tells us quite plainly when it happened and the appeal to after-the-fact interpretations that don't meet doctrinal expectation and defining scripture by secular history instead of the other way around are fallacious arguments. Trying to put everything in the last third of Rev. 1:19 and then make that last third contradict verse 1:3 and 22:10 is neither scriptural nor

Scripture states what it states. 

Read it, accept it, believe it, and act upon it based first on what it Be as critical of those who change God's words as you are of my posts. 

Revelation 22:18-20
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.  He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen.

I strongly urge everyone not to add or subtract from the book, especially those who believe it's all our future because that is an addition to what is stated. According to verses 1:3 and 22:10 Rev. 13:10 was "at hand," near to the time the revelation was revealed. God never used the phrase "en gys" to mean anything other than near in time and space and post hoc inquiries don't change those facts.

 

 

 

Now let's see if some parity will be provided or whether this will be another set of exchanges that's one-sided. Does Revelation 1:3 state we should "heed the things which are written in it; for the time is at hand," or not? The answer requires only one single simple word. I'm not asking for much.

 

If you believe Revelation 13:4-8 below has been historically fulfilled, who was (The Beast), the He, His, Him, seen below?

Revelation 13:4-8KJV

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Edited February 4, 2022 by truth7t7