Revelation Chapter 13 -

[BlindSeeker]

Dr. Luke,

I was truly anticipating a response from you regarding the

[Matthitjah]

Blindseeker,

Sorry Brother I will take a closer inspection of this and Post later.

I have been busy shouting;

Wake Up!

All over the Board, LOL

I do think it is very significant that we are exercising worldly authority over Israel being the only Empire in the World right now. It is also quite amazing to me people can't fathom or see this.

GBU,

Peace :il: Amen

[BlindSeeker]

Blindseeker,

Sorry Brother I will take a closer inspection of this and Post later.

I have been busy shouting;

Wake Up!

All over the Board, LOL

Please, by all means,

KEEP SHOUTING!

Peace,

William

[tsth]

I'm listenin! Dr. Luke! I'm listenin!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[BlindSeeker]

bump.

[RND]

Dr. Luke,

I was truly anticipating a response from you regarding the

Edited July 11, 2006 by EricH

[RGR]

Where did this one get dug up from?

[BlindSeeker]

Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and

they

that dwell on the earth shall wonder,

whose names were not written

in the book of life

from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Now shouldn't that make you think that the church should indeed know just who the eighth beast is?

However, I will submit for your consideration that from my studies I find there are actually 4 distinct divisions pertaining to the beast.

Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of

the woman

, and of

the beast

that carrieth her, which hath

the seven heads

and

ten horns.

Here are the 4 divisions,

First - THE WOMAN - I believe she represents the false religious systems that have been here since the Nimrod and the tower of Babel. It is demonic in origin, but often comes as an angel of light to try and deceive to who would be seeking truth and righteousness.

Note that in Rev 13:1 that the beast rising out of the sea does not have the women riding it. I believe that is because the mutually consensual unholy union of the beast and the woman happens just prior to their destruction, and because of their union, they are thereafter referred to as the one and the same. Not unlike "and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

This whorish religious system goes all the way back to through the history of Israel. I personally believe after Christ death and the destruction of Rome it morphed into Catholicism, which after it became so blatantly contrary godliness with its persecutions and inquisitions, then gave birth to many of the harlot churches presently now as denominations which either clung to some of their mother churches errors or created their own brand of heresy.

I have always believe that the true church need no reformation, but simple restoration. But that is another topic altogether . . .

Second - THE BEAST THAT CARRIETH HER - This is actually the final manifestation of the beast that has existed since the birth of the Nation of Israel. It is linked to Israel, for as Israel was, and then was not because Rome destroyed it, yet Israel is. The same is said therefore of the beast. "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

Third - THE SEVEN HEADS - Are the historical progression of nations which have had a direct influence and effect upon the Israelites. The heads represent seven mountains (not hills) which represent seven empires ruled by seven kings. According to the angel said 5 were already fallen in Israel's then past.

They are:

• 1. Egypt
  2. Assyria
  3. Babylon
  4. Medes/Persia
  5. Greece

Daniel mentions the last three in his visions, including the next empire which then “was,” that being Rome. Therefore Rome is head #6. Daniel is silent about Egypt and Assyria two because they were already history before his time of ministry.

The 7th empire would have to of been those in possession of the land when the Israelites began to migrate back to their land after World War 2. That would have been the British Empire. Therefore the 7th is England.

Please note that in Revelation 17:9-11 the angels only mentions seven kings, which leaves room to believe the eight beast would not be under a monarchal rule, rather a different government system.

Re 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Therefore, the mentioning of the SEVEN HEADS are just to give us "the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is

[Rome]

, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he

[England]

must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is

the eighth,

and

is of

[from]

the seven

, and goeth into perdition.

Therefore, it is the 8th beast that "goeth into perdition" that Rev. 13-19 is mainly dealing with.

Fourth - THE TEN HORNS - I believe represents the unification of Europe, a resurrection per se of the old Roman Empire. It is they who "shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."

I think it is necessary to address all these when endeavoring to rightly divide the prophecy of John in Revelation. Any attempt at an interpretation which doesn't I feel disqualifies itself failing to do so.

.

[RND]

First, the little horn arises out of the fourth beast (7:24); thus it is not separate from the Roman Empire but is actually part of it.

Second, it appears after the other 10 horns (7:8). The 10 horns represent the collapse and division of the Roman Empire; therefore, the little horn came after the Roman Empire's collapse.

Third, as Daniel 7:20 reveals, it becomes greater than the other horns ("literally 'whose appearance was bigger than that of its companions'. It represented an entity more powerful than the other kingdoms of divided Rome.

Fourth, three of the ten horns were uprooted (7:8). In order for it to have space to exercise its greatness, three powers are eliminated.

What power arose out of the ruins of pagan Rome to be a leading influence among the divided kingdoms? The answer is blatantly clear, the Roman Church. Historian R. P. C. Hanson comments that though the church "was formally unprepared for the appalling and unprecedented collapse of the society in which it had grown into maturity, when the crisis came the Church found powers within itself to deal with the crisis, to endure, to survive and finally to go far towards permeating and controlling the new state of affairs which the barbarian invasions and settlements had brought about."

[BlindSeeker]

The little horn is the papal system. . .

. . . It should be emphasized that the little horn represents a system, a church-state combination, a religious power that would grasp civil power to enforce certain beliefs and practices. Because the Papacy did use such civil power as the prophecy predicted does not by any means bring individual Roman Catholics under condemnation. Multitudes of Roman Catholics have followed Christ as best they knew, and many have exhibited a true devotion to the cross. But the papal system during its years of supremacy did singularly fulfill the prophecy of Daniel 7.

Assuming you were correct about Daniel 7:24, who were the "three of the first horns plucked up by the roots?"

How does that apply to the 8th beast that rises out of the sea in Revelation 13 and goes into destruction as noted in Rev. 13-19?

There are more players in this sene that need to be identified than just Rome . . .

Who is the woman (mother)?

Her daughters (harlots)?

Who are the 7 heads?

The 10 Horns?

I do, however, personally believe that 2 Thes. 2:3 does speak of the rise of the Papacy . . . after that which prevented its rise to power was removed (the fall of the Roman Empire).