Eternal state

[Uriah]

There a number of views on this, and it can be challenging to describe. I have heard it connected with statements telling of the universe becoming a spiritual existence or the continuation of Earth indefinitely remaining in a blissful a paradise, which I tend to support.  We need scriptures to guide us. Let's share some varying insights on this. 

[AdHoc]

8 minutes ago, Uriah said:

There a number of views on this, and it can be challenging to describe. I have heard it connected with statements telling of the universe becoming a spiritual existence or the continuation of Earth indefinitely remaining in a blissful a paradise, which I tend to support.  We need scriptures to guide us. Let's share some varying insights on this. 

Just for myself, I will answer to the "everlasting state". It might be semantics but I understand "eternal" to mean "without beginning and without end", while "everlasting" means it had a beginning but has no end. And so it is with the earth. Scripture makes clear that the earth had a beginning but is permanent (Psalm 78:69, 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 119:90 and 1st Chronicles 16:30). But then we have multiple scriptures that say that the earth will be consumed with fire and even melted. The answer to this apparent anomaly is found in Psalm 102:25-26 and its repeat in Hebrews 1:10-12. There the purging fire is only applied to the surface of the earth to do away with the history of defiling works. Thus, the earth in SUBSTANCE remains forever, but its history of rebellion and evil will be removed. Thus, the "everlasting" state of the earth is that it remains in substance and physical laws. The Greek word for "new" as in "New Earth" means "made pristine". It does not necessarily mean a new creature. The blood of Christ "speaks better things than Abel's blood". Abel's blood called for vengeance and God cursed the earth. This curse is lifted for the earth because Christs blood was the vengeance. The earth will bring forth its glory.

The sea was a picture of the military power of the nations and death (Ezek.26:3). It is used by God to judge the earth in Genesis 1.2 and Chapter 6 to 8. Thus, on the renewed earth there will be no more sea. The sea is also the place of demons, but with the sea gone they have their punishment by wandering in "dry places" (Matt.12:43 etc.).

The believers have the special future of being co-kings with Jesus on the New Earth. They enjoy God to the fullest, having His life and His favor. The believer will be a normal human being except he will have a renewed body (2nd Cor.5:1-5). Because he possesses eternal life he will live effortlessly and healthily forever. God's plan was for man to be in his image and likeness and to rule the earth and its environs. This will be the portion of the believers. Man was man of the earth for the earth Gen.1:26-28, Rev.22:4).

Israel was promised a piece of the earth for an "everlasting possession". Thy will thus occupy Canaan with its borders according to those given in Ezekiel. Jesus is their King and will dwell in physical Jerusalem. the 12 Tribes will each have their portion of this Land and the Levitical priesthood will serve Emmanuel in His Palace. This Palace will be constructed in the millennial Kingdom and reflect that which Christ accomplished. Israel, because of the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-33, will keep God's Laws and never be ejected from their land again. Because Israel did not believe, they cannot possess eternal life. But s part of God's Kingdom they enjoy special connection to God. This Kingdom is called "life"

The Nations will be in their countries, the borders of which are fixed by the Lord. Christians will be kings over their cities (Lk.19:17-19). At the White Throne it will be decided by Christ which individuals will escape the Lake of Fire and who goes into it. Since the Lake of Fire is a STATE of personal suffering, men will mix freely, but the sufferings of those suffering will be evident (Isa.66:24). Because the Nations  never believed, they cannot possess eternal life. Though they all have resurrection bodies, they need to be sustained by the "leaves of the Tree of Life".

The Lake of Fire was prepared for Satan and his rebel angels. The Lake of Fire is a STATE of maximum personal suffering of the body and soul (Matt.10:28). Satan and his fallen angels will be in this State, and the demons, wandering in dry places, will also be in this STATE. The Lake of Fire is everlasting. It is a monument for God's justice.

I am unable to show what the geography or weather will be like on the New Earth, but if Canaan is an everlasting possession to Israel, I think the geography will be much the same as now. Without the sea, there will be a massive increase in habitable area. With the curse on the earth lifted, it will be very fruitful. There will be huge harvests. Since the waters of the sea must go somewhere, I speculate that it will form a canopy above the earth causing a lovely sub-tropical "greenhouse" weather over the whole earth. All men are in resurrection bodies and the Adamic nature will thus be eradicated. There being no more "sin-nature" among men, there will be no more death.

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Just for myself, I will answer to the "everlasting state". It might be semantics but I understand "eternal" to mean "without beginning and without end", while "everlasting" means it had a beginning but has no end. And so it is with the earth. Scripture makes clear that the earth had a beginning but is permanent (Psalm 78:69, 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 119:90 and 1st Chronicles 16:30). But then we have multiple scriptures that say that the earth will be consumed with fire and even melted. The answer to this apparent anomaly is found in Psalm 102:25-26 and its repeat in Hebrews 1:10-12. There the purging fire is only applied to the surface of the earth to do away with the history of defiling works. Thus, the earth in SUBSTANCE remains forever, but its history of rebellion and evil will be removed. Thus, the "everlasting" state of the earth is that it remains in substance and physical laws. The Greek word for "new" as in "New Earth" means "made pristine". It does not necessarily mean a new creature. The blood of Christ "speaks better things than Abel's blood". Abel's blood called for vengeance and God cursed the earth. This curse is lifted for the earth because Christs blood was the vengeance. The earth will bring forth its glory.

Hi AdHoc,

Very good. I also do not see the Earth as being totally burned up. In the tribulation there will be many fires and 1/3 of the trees and grass are burned.

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The sea was a picture of the military power of the nations and death (Ezek.26:3). It is used by God to judge the earth in Genesis 1.2 and Chapter 6 to 8. Thus, on the renewed earth there will be no more sea. The sea is also the place of demons, but with the sea gone they have their punishment by wandering in "dry places" (Matt.12:43 etc.).

Though the source you cite is not one specifically aimed at a future world, there is the likelihood that the demonic forces will be sent with their master to the "pit" (bottomless pit).

 

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The believers have the special future of being co-kings with Jesus on the New Earth. They enjoy God to the fullest, having His life and His favor. The believer will be a normal human being except he will have a renewed body (2nd Cor.5:1-5). Because he possesses eternal life he will live effortlessly and healthily forever. God's plan was for man to be in his image and likeness and to rule the earth and its environs. This will be the portion of the believers. Man was man of the earth for the earth Gen.1:26-28, Rev.22:4).

The passage in 2 Cor is about resurrected people. We will be in New Jerusalem where the throne of God and of the Lamb are. It is those who survive the tribulation that will populate the Earth. We will be like the angels NO reproduction in the resurrection. Zec. 14:16- And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Israel was promised a piece of the earth for an "everlasting possession". Thy will thus occupy Canaan with its borders according to those given in Ezekiel. Jesus is their King and will dwell in physical Jerusalem. the 12 Tribes will each have their portion of this Land and the Levitical priesthood will serve Emmanuel in His Palace. This Palace will be constructed in the millennial Kingdom and reflect that which Christ accomplished. Israel, because of the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-33, will keep God's Laws and never be ejected from their land again. Because Israel did not believe, they cannot possess eternal life. But s part of God's Kingdom they enjoy special connection to God. This Kingdom is called "life"

This sounds more like the millennium than the "eternal state" which most put after the thousand years. 

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The Nations will be in their countries, the borders of which are fixed by the Lord. Christians will be kings over their cities (Lk.19:17-19). At the White Throne it will be decided by Christ which individuals will escape the Lake of Fire and who goes into it. Since the Lake of Fire is a STATE of personal suffering, men will mix freely, but the sufferings of those suffering will be evident (Isa.66:24). Because the Nations  never believed, they cannot possess eternal life. Though they all have resurrection bodies, they need to be sustained by the "leaves of the Tree of Life".

So, now this looks like resurrected people (believers) are denied what the scriptures promise believers. John 12:26- If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I am unable to show what the geography or weather will be like on the New Earth, but if Canaan is an everlasting possession to Israel, I think the geography will be much the same as now. Without the sea, there will be a massive increase in habitable area. With the curse on the earth lifted, it will be very fruitful. There will be huge harvests. Since the waters of the sea must go somewhere, I speculate that it will form a canopy above the earth causing a lovely sub-tropical "greenhouse" weather over the whole earth. All men are in resurrection bodies and the Adamic nature will thus be eradicated. There being no more "sin-nature" among men, there will be no more death.

Yes the "new heaven" (sky) will be from the canopy created by the impact in Rev 8:8

 

[AdHoc]

59 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Hi AdHoc,

Very good. I also do not see the Earth as being totally burned up. In the tribulation there will be many fires and 1/3 of the trees and grass are burned.

Though the source you cite is not one specifically aimed at a future world, there is the likelihood that the demonic forces will be sent with their master to the "pit" (bottomless pit).

 

The passage in 2 Cor is about resurrected people. We will be in New Jerusalem where the throne of God and of the Lamb are. It is those who survive the tribulation that will populate the Earth. We will be like the angels NO reproduction in the resurrection. Zec. 14:16- And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

This sounds more like the millennium than the "eternal state" which most put after the thousand years. 

So, now this looks like resurrected people (believers) are denied what the scriptures promise believers. John 12:26- If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Yes the "new heaven" (sky) will be from the canopy created by the impact in Rev 8:8

 

Hi Uriah.

Thanks for the input. I think that some of the scriptures you gave I see as the Millennium while you see them as the everlasting state and visa versa. But it is a big thing that we agree on the earth remaining. If that is agreed on, the ground is set for ironing out other differences. Also, your view that New Jerusalem is literal would cause some difficulties, but I try to see everything as literal until proven otherwise and so I applaud you. I believe that New Jerusalem is a picture of the consummation of all that God set out to do.

1. In Galatians 4:26 she is a mother of both Christian and Jew (context) and she is "above"
2. In Revelation 12 there is a mother of both Christian and Jew and she is a "sign" in heaven
3. In Revelation 21 she both City and Bride and Tabernacle - a difficult one to reconcile literally
4. In Revelation 21 she is heavenly but comes to earth
5. In Revelation 21 the Tabernacle is the City, but God is the Temple - difficult if taken literally
6. In Revelation 21 the Wall is made with the materials for building the Church (1st Cor.3)
7. In Revelation 21 the Gates are named for Israel's Tribes
8. In Revelation 22 presents difficulties. Verse 2 says that the "Street of the River of water of life ..." Can a river have a street?
9. In Revelation 22 gives THE Tree of Life (singular) on both sides of the river

But if the City is taken as a picture, then God's fourfold purpose with man is seen consummated:

1. God made man to be in His image and likeness. The City has the glory of God
2. God made man to rule - the City rules (22:4)
3. God made man to be His Temple - the city is a Tabernacle
4. God made man for a Bride for His Son Jesus - the City is a heavenly Bride
5. God made man to fence the Garden - The City has a high wall

But I could have missed something.

[other one]

Quote

2 Peter 3:10-13

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV
 

All burned up and gone.    And when you look at the new heaven and the new earth and the new city of Jerusalem, it's pretty obvious that because of the size of it the new place will not be under the same laws of physics as this one.   No sun or moon for God himself will be our light...    In studying "M" String physics it seems as though we will be in a much higher dimension where there is literally no time.    If there is no time, in our thought process today it means it's eternal....  lasts forever.   NO beginning; No end; just is.

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, other one said:

All burned up and gone.    And when you look at the new heaven and the new earth and the new city of Jerusalem, it's pretty obvious that because of the size of it the new place will not be under the same laws of physics as this one.   No sun or moon for God himself will be our light...    In studying "M" String physics it seems as though we will be in a much higher dimension where there is literally no time.    If there is no time, in our thought process today it means it's eternal....  lasts forever.   NO beginning; No end; just is.

Hi.

I can see why you come to that conclusion. The plain language seems to say it. But let us go back to your text from 2nd Peter 3. This is the lead-up to your proffered verses.

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

We know that the world was covered with water and in darkness in Genesis 1:2 - a sure sign of God's judgment. About 1655 years after Adam, God again covers the earth in waters of judgment. Thus, verse 5 says; (i) "standing out of water" as God restores the earth in 6 days in Genesis 1, and then (ii) "(standing) in water" at Noah's time. The interesting thing though is that the grammar says "the world that THEN WAS ...". This would normally imply that we have a new earth - a different one. Verse 7 confirms this with, "the heavens and the earth WHICH ARE NOW." But we know that neither in Genesis 1 nor in Chapters 6 to 8 that the world was dissolved and a new one put in its place.

To God, the washing away of whatever had gone before was, to Him, a new earth. This is the case in Peter's first Epistle in Chapter 3,

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Here, the eight were SAVED BY WATER. How? Not the washing of the flesh. That takes blood. What was washed away was any evidence of what men did before the flood so that Noah and family could start again fresh. It was still the same earth, but devoid of any evidence of what had gone before.

The matter of time is also not settled. I tend to agree with you that time on the New Earth will not matter, but in two scriptures make me pause: 

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

 Ephesians 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

These were written in this "age". So the age to come is the next age, but "ages to come" indicates time-periods future to even the next age. And "ALL ages" seems to indicate multiple ages still to come. I have no knowledge of these "ages" but normally an age is defined by time.

[missmuffet]

A study of “the eternal state” is rightly seen as a subdivision of the greater study of eschatology, or the doctrine of last things. It must be admitted first that the only sure word of testimony regarding this subject is the Holy Bible; no other “holy book” or philosophy is as trustworthy or as informative as the Bible.

The Greek word most often translated “eternal” in the Bible is aionos, from which we get our word eon. Essentially, this word denotes having no beginning and no end, or having a beginning but no end, with respect to time. The exact meaning is always determined by the context. When this word is combined with “life” (Greek zoe), it denotes not only life without end, but a certain quality of life that is distinguished from mere biological life.

We know that all believers will receive resurrected bodies (1 Corinthians 15:42). Thus, we will not exist as disembodied spirits, but we will possess glorified bodies especially suited for an existence in the eternal state.

The Bible gives few details of what that state will be like. Scripture says that God creates a new heaven and a new earth, and the New Jerusalem descends from God to the new earth (Revelation 21:1-2). In this new creation, “the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God” (Revelation 21:3). “So, we will be with the Lord forever” (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

Our existence in the eternal state will be markedly different from what we are used to now: “There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away” (Revelation 21:4). The curse that came with sin will never hold sway again (Revelation 22:3). We can hardly imagine a world without pain or sorrow, but that’s what God promises—a reality beyond imagination. “As it is written: ‘No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him’” (1 Corinthians 2:9; cf. Isaiah 64:4).

Neither will our existence in the eternal state be marred by bad memories of the old earth. Joy will swallow up all distress: “Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind” (Isaiah 65:17).

The eternal state will involve serving the Lord (Revelation 22:3), seeing God face to face (verse 4), and living in perfect health (verse 2) and holiness (verse 5). Second Peter 3:13 says that the new heaven and earth will be “the home of righteousness.” Sin will not cast its shadow anywhere in that realm.

From the beginning of creation, it has been God’s plan to bring His redeemed ones to this place of completion and glory (Romans 8:30; Philippians 1:6). No more sin, no more curse, no more death, no more good-byes—all because of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. In the eternal state, God’s perfect plan will be brought to glorious realization, and mankind will accomplish its chief end, “to glorify God and to enjoy him forever.”

/www.gotquestions.org/eternal-state.html

Edited January 20, 2022 by missmuffet

[AdHoc]

4 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

A study of “the eternal state” is rightly seen as a subdivision of the greater study of eschatology, or the doctrine of last things. It must be admitted first that the only sure word of testimony regarding this subject is the Holy Bible; no other “holy book” or philosophy is as trustworthy or as informative as the Bible.

The Greek word most often translated “eternal” in the Bible is aionos, from which we get our word eon. Essentially, this word denotes having no beginning and no end, or having a beginning but no end, with respect to time. The exact meaning is always determined by the context. When this word is combined with “life” (Greek zoe), it denotes not only life without end, but a certain quality of life that is distinguished from mere biological life.

We know that all believers will receive resurrected bodies (1 Corinthians 15:42). Thus, we will not exist as disembodied spirits, but we will possess glorified bodies especially suited for an existence in the eternal state.

The Bible gives few details of what that state will be like. Scripture says that God creates a new heaven and a new earth, and the New Jerusalem descends from God to the new earth (Revelation 21:1-2). In this new creation, “the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God” (Revelation 21:3). “So, we will be with the Lord forever” (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

Our existence in the eternal state will be markedly different from what we are used to now: “There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away” (Revelation 21:4). The curse that came with sin will never hold sway again (Revelation 22:3). We can hardly imagine a world without pain or sorrow, but that’s what God promises—a reality beyond imagination. “As it is written: ‘No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him’” (1 Corinthians 2:9; cf. Isaiah 64:4).

Neither will our existence in the eternal state be marred by bad memories of the old earth. Joy will swallow up all distress: “Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind” (Isaiah 65:17).

The eternal state will involve serving the Lord (Revelation 22:3), seeing God face to face (verse 4), and living in perfect health (verse 2) and holiness (verse 5). Second Peter 3:13 says that the new heaven and earth will be “the home of righteousness.” Sin will not cast its shadow anywhere in that realm.

From the beginning of creation, it has been God’s plan to bring His redeemed ones to this place of completion and glory (Romans 8:30; Philippians 1:6). No more sin, no more curse, no more death, no more good-byes—all because of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. In the eternal state, God’s perfect plan will be brought to glorious realization, and mankind will accomplish its chief end, “to glorify God and to enjoy him forever.”
 

A very nice understandable summary.

[I am no one]

Matthew 13:11 Because it is given unto them to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Edited January 20, 2022 by I am no one
correcting

[Marilyn C]

18 hours ago, Uriah said:

There a number of views on this, and it can be challenging to describe. I have heard it connected with statements telling of the universe becoming a spiritual existence or the continuation of Earth indefinitely remaining in a blissful a paradise, which I tend to support.  We need scriptures to guide us. Let's share some varying insights on this. 

Hi Uriah,

A very important topic as God has planned and is fulfilling that - `in the fullness of the times He might gather together in one, (harmony) all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him.` (Eph. 1: 10)

We read in Colossians concerning the `all things,` - `For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through him and for him.` (Col. 1: 18)

Thus we see that the Lord will bring all rulership under His feet. (1 Cor. 15: 25) for there has been rebellion in every realm - the third heaven, the Universe and on the earth. Every realm will have rulership under the Lord Jesus Christ.

1. Third heaven -  The Body of Christ, kingpriests with Christ on His own throne. (Rev. 3: 21)

2. The Universal realm - the OT saints, (Heb. 11: 16) 144,000 priests, (Rev. 21: 17) Kings, (Matt. 19: 28,  Rev. 21: 14)

3. The Earth - Israel and the nations. (Rev. 21: 24)

Every realm has a throne which means rulership, and all under Christ who rules above all.