The Last trump

[other one]

31 minutes ago, The Light said:

THE TIME TRAVELER.

he's the last trump

 

[transmogrified]

5 hours ago, The Light said:

Those that awake in Daniel 12 have accepted or rejected the Gospel. Those that remain in ground will be there to rise for the sheep and goat judgement.

Hello again...

In looking at the above statement are you saying all the righteous would awake or part of them would awake?  

[The Light]

1 hour ago, other one said:

he's the last trump

 

He's also a time traveler. Books written by Ingersoll at the end of the 1800's have some strange coincidences. 

[kenny2212]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

 

Those that awake in Daniel 12 have accepted or rejected the Gospel. Those that remain in ground will be there to rise for the sheep and goat judgement.

No. The dead don't rise to take part in the Sheep and Goat judgement. The Sheep and Goat judgement is for everyone who makes it alive through the tribulation.

Thank You.

[The Light]

4 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

Hello again...

In looking at the above statement are you saying all the righteous would awake or part of them would awake?  

The short answer is part of the righteous will awake. This stuff is extremely difficult to understand. I don't think there is any way to prove who is right on this, but here is the ultra-long version of what I think will happen and why.

The dead in Christ will rise first. These are those that believe that Jesus is the Messiah (The Church) and have died. This is the spring barley harvest that occurs at Passover.

Then the alive believers of the Church will be caught up. This is the early summer wheat harvest, and it will occur on Pentecost. This happens at the trump of God or voice of God. It will happen before the 70th week of Daniel as Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. It will be a secret pretribulation rapture.

Then part of the Jews will have their eyes opened as the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. God turns his attention to 12 tribes. There are 144,000 first fruits which GUARANTEES a harvest of the 12 tribes as they are seen standing before the throne as acceptable first fruits. They are the seed of the woman. The woman is the nation of Israel. This is the fall fruit harvest which occurs at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. It will be like the days of Lot where the very day Lot leaves Sodom destruction came. This occurs at the 6th seal when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. He will remain in the clouds and send His angels which gather the elect from heaven and earth. This happens just prior to the wrath of God.

We can see this harvest of the twelve tribes In Rev 15. Remember, the coming of Jesus in Rev 14, is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, and the coming of Jesus in Matt 24, just prior to the wrath of God.

They are of the 12 tribes as they sing the song of Moses before the throne.

Rev 15

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Back to the seed of the woman. This seed of the woman who keep the commandments of God now believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

Rev 12

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24, which is the coming of Jesus in Rev 14, happens immediately after the tribulation of those days.

Rev 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

When the stars fall from heaven, that is the angels being cast onto the earth. Which brings us to the verse in question in Daniel 12

Daniel 12

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The word says at that time THY people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. So, it is not all people being talked about, it is the people of Daniel, the Jews. Then it says that many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.

This is where I believe the following: The reason that many of them that sleep in the ground shall awake is because I believe that only those that have had an opportunity to accept or reject Christ get raised at this time. Those that accepted Christ in their lives go to the marriage supper which happens during the wrath of God. So there are two brides at the marriage supper. The Church and the believers of the 12 tribes.

Which brings us to the next resurrection in the word, which I think are those that never had the opportunity to accept or reject Christ. 

John 5

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Those that are still in the grave as they never had the opportunity to accept or reject Christ are judged differently. Those judged good are rewarded.

Rev 11

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Then of course there is the great white throne judgment. 

That's the way I see it.

I will answer your other post in the next day of two brother. All the best to you.

 

[transmogrified]

5 hours ago, The Light said:

The short answer is part of the righteous will awake.

Hello Brother-

The definition of who Jesus said he would raise on the last day was not 'all those who had not been previously resurrected.' 

He is not defining those who would be raised on the last day in a chronological sense..the chronological sense of the resurrection was:

'Every man in his order...Christ the first fruits, afterward those that are Christ's at his coming'

He did not say Christ and some other saints were the first fruits, he said Christ was the first fruits.

This is also stated in 1 Cor. 15:20

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of those that slept.."

There can be no other saints resurrected before the last day because of who Jesus said would be raised on the last day.

He said 'And this is the Fathers will that hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me, I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."
There is no saint that would not be in this definition.

John 6:44 states the same thing:

"No man can come unto me except the Father which hath sent me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day."

When he said he would raise 'him' up at the last day it is a synecdoche being used again...in other words he is using the singular word 'him' to represent the whole of those whom God has drawn. In this same sense, there is no saint who would not be in this category...If no man can come to him except God draws him, then the definition of a saint is one who has been drawn by God to Christ...and seeing he is  using the singular word 'him' to represent the whole, there would be no saints  that would not be raised at the last day.

Believe that Jesus is the first fruits because that is what scripture says he is...believe Jesus said he would raise all saints at the last day because that is what scripture says he will do....Trust in what he said...he will not let you down if you put your faith in Him....

Bless you Brother.

[transmogrified]

17 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

I agree that Matthew 24:29-31 parallels Rev. 6:12-14.

Hello Kenny2212-

The scripture states the sun shall be darkened and the moon turned to blood before the great and notable day of the Lord come.

These are the cosmic signs stated in Rev. 6 that occur at the 6th seal, but in order for the word of God to be true these are signs that happen before the Day of Lord comes, not signs that happen on the Day of the Lord. 

Thoughts?

[transmogrified]

16 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

The scripture says that those who participate in the first resurrection are "blessed and holy", and not cursed and unholy!  

Hello Da Puppers:

    Please address the scriptures showing both the good and the bad are resurrected at the Second Coming...This is not to be construed to mean the wicked are part of the first resurrection. The righteous are in the first resurrection because they are in Christ who was the first to be resurrected, it does not mean the righteous are resurrected at the Second Coming and the wicked are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years. 

Go through each of the scriptures cited and explain why they say that both the wicked and the righteous will be resurrected at the Second Coming if it is not true. It is not a valid response to quote one scripture as if one inspired scripture could invalidate another inspired scripture. They are all inspired and are not to be added to or taken from.

The list included:

The wheat and the tares

The good and bad fish

The faithful  and unfaithful servant

Resurrection of good and bad being fulfilled at the end of the reign of the beast in Dan. 12

Those who were persecuting the saints in Thessalonica would be punished with everlasting fire at the Second Coming

The wicked would be judged on the Last day....same day the righteous would be judged

Caiphas sees Jesus coming in the clouds

Every eye shall see him when he comes in the clouds, even those who pierced him

These scriptures do not disparage the fact that the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years are finished...The above scriptures that are given are inspired as well as the one you quoted...Rev. 20:4 is true, but its purpose is not to overturn other scriptures. One piece of the puzzle is just that...it is one of many pieces, but they all must be included to get the full picture....Blessings to you- Gary 

[The Light]

2 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Hello Brother-

The definition of who Jesus said he would raise on the last day was not 'all those who had not been previously resurrected.' 

He is not defining those who would be raised on the last day in a chronological sense..the chronological sense of the resurrection was:

'Every man in his order...Christ the first fruits, afterward those that are Christ's at his coming'

He did not say Christ and some other saints were the first fruits, he said Christ was the first fruits.

This is also stated in 1 Cor. 15:20

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of those that slept.."

 

Believe that Jesus is the first fruits because that is what scripture says he is...believe Jesus said he would raise all saints at the last day because that is what scripture says he will do....Trust in what he said...he will not let you down if you put your faith in Him....

Bless you Brother.

Good morning brother,

I do trust in what He says. He gives a specific order. And He will follow that order.

Jesus is the first fruits of those that sleep. The order: Christ the first fruits and then afterward those who are Christs at His coming.

What happens first? The dead in Christ will rise. Is that all dead or those in Christ? The answer is those in Christ AT HIS COMING.

The dead in Christ rise first. This is the barley harvest. Passover harvest.

Then the Lord comes for the wheat, the alive Church. Pentecost harvest.

When He comes, He only comes for THOSE IN CHRIST.

Part of the Jews cannot see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. We are told not to be ignorant of this mystery.

Rom 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

After the Church is gone what does Israel realize?

Jer 8:20

20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

Then what happens? There are 144,000 first fruits GUARANTEEING another harvest. The 12 tribes across the earth will be raptured at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. This is the fall fruit harvest that happens at the last trump. Feast of Trumpets harvest.

Then after Jesus returns with His armies, we have the dead that are not in Christ. They are judged by whether they are good or bad. 

Daniel 12 tells us specifically that many of THY people shall be raised. This agrees perfectly with the coming of Jesus for the 12 tribes across the earth at the 6th seal.

Only those in the nation of Israel that flee to a place of protection and unbelievers will be on earth during the wrath of God. God's people are not appointed to wrath.

 

[transmogrified]

25 minutes ago, The Light said:

Jesus is the first fruits of those that sleep. The order: Christ the first fruits and then afterward those who are Christs at His coming.

 

Yes, indeed this is the order.

25 minutes ago, The Light said:

The dead in Christ rise first. This is the barley harvest. Passover harvest.

Please clarify...Jesus said the Wheat is the children of the kingdom...these are the believers identified in Rev. 11:18 - The prophets, the saints, them that fear his name both small and great..these are the ones Jesus raises on the last day...he specifically says it will be ALL those whom God has given to him...at one time...at the last day....not two groups of people...not two different times..it is adding into the text something that is not there. 

25 minutes ago, The Light said:

What happens first? The dead in Christ will rise. Is that all dead or those in Christ? The answer is those in Christ AT HIS COMING.

Yes, brother...the question was not whether all of the dead would raise at the Second coming, they will, but the question was whether all the righteous dead would be raised at his coming...the answer that was given was that part of the righteous would be resurrected...this was why John 6 was brought up and other scriptures was to show that all the righteous are raised at one time...

Please address what Jesus said that All the God gave to him would be raised at the last day...it would be a direct contradiction to say God will not raise all those who God gave to Christ on the last day, but rather he will raise some of those who God gave to him before the last day, and the rest of them that God gave to Christ he will raise at the last day.