Angels

[Desopixi Seilynam]

"And I fell at his (the angels) feet to worship him.
And he said see thou do it not, I am thy fellow servant
and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus;
worship God; for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy"
Revelation 19:10 [Numbers 11:29]

 

"God said, let there be light, and there was light"
 I wonder if what He said was heard, was a sound?
Certainly light heard.

"it is the spirit that gives life, the flesh profits nothing,
the words that I speak to you they are spirit and they are life"
John 6:63

"we wrestle not against flesh and blood..
but against.. spiritual hosts of wickedness in high places"
Ephesians 6:12

 

I think the fallen angels want to keep people from seeing
that there is an actual spiritual realm.
They want people to believe everything is all physical,
therefore a belief in 'aliens' on distant 'planets' in 'outer-space',
is what is likely to be used to explain away the ideas of 'angels' and 'spirits'.

"For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection,
neither angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees confess both."
Acts 23:8

 

 

[Retrobyter]

On 2/24/2022 at 11:51 PM, Golds and Blues said:

Conflating the 2 with conjecture is the error.

Seraf in Hebrew context is described by Yeshayahu and is known well where Fire is found upon the alter.

Nachash in Hebrew context is a similar example of strange fire, or serpent of rebellion.[Mark 9:44] not to be conflated with לְתַנִּין .

Shalom, Golds and Blues.

Better to have some well-placed conjecture than the gobbledy-gook you've given me to work with here!

First,

it seems you're taking the thoughts of the fire found upon the altar and the strange fire that Nadav and Aviyhuw (Nadab and Abihu) presented before the LORD and were struck down for it.

Let's look at this history briefly:

Numbers 3:1-4 (KJV)

1 These also are the generations of Aaron and Moses in the day that the LORD spake with Moses in mount Sinai. 2 And these are the names of the sons of Aaron; Nadab the firstborn, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar. 3 These are the names of the sons of Aaron, the priests which were anointed, whom he consecrated to minister in the priest's office. 4 And Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai, and they had no children: and Eleazar and Ithamar ministered in the priest's office in the sight of Aaron their father.

They're mentioned again in ...

Numbers 26:60-61 (KJV)

60 And unto Aaron was born Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar. 61 And Nadab and Abihu died, when they offered strange fire before the LORD.

This goes back to the history of the altar of incense found in Exodus 30:

Exodus 30:1-10 (KJV)

1 And thou shalt make an altar to burn incense upon: of shittim wood shalt thou make it. 2 A cubit shall be the length thereof, and a cubit the breadth thereof; foursquare shall it be: and two cubits shall be the height thereof: the horns thereof shall be of the same. 3 And thou shalt overlay it with pure gold, the top thereof, and the sides thereof round about, and the horns thereof; and thou shalt make unto it a crown of gold round about. 4 And two golden rings shalt thou make to it under the crown of it, by the two corners thereof, upon the two sides of it shalt thou make it; and they shall be for places for the staves to bear it withal. 5 And thou shalt make the staves of shittim wood, and overlay them with gold. 6 And thou shalt put it before the vail that is by the ark of the testimony, before the mercy seat that is over the testimony, where I will meet with thee. 7 And Aaron shall burn thereon sweet incense every morning: when he dresseth the lamps, he shall burn incense upon it. 8 And when Aaron lighteth the lamps at even, he shall burn incense upon it, a perpetual incense before the LORD throughout your generations. 9 Ye shall offer no strange incense thereon, nor burnt sacrifice, nor meat offering; neither shall ye pour drink offering thereon. 10 And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the LORD. 

We also read,

Exodus 19:22 (KJV)

22 And let the priests also, which come near to the LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.

So, how did it happen? Well, we also read this:

Leviticus 10:1-7 (KJV)

1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. 2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

3 Then Moses said unto Aaron,

"This is it that the LORD spake, saying,

"'I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified.'"

And Aaron held his peace. (THINK ABOUT IT! He had just lost TWO of his SONS!)

4 And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said unto them,

"Come near, carry your brethren from before the sanctuary out of the camp."

5 So they went near, and carried them in their coats out of the camp; as Moses had said. 6 And Moses said unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons,

"Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes (don't show any signs of grief or mourning); lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people: but let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which the LORD hath kindled. 7 And ye shall not go out from the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: for the anointing oil of the LORD is upon you."

And they did according to the word of Moses.

This is how SERIOUS their sin was!

Second, you've attempted to put the saaraaf and the naachaash as though they represented the LORD'S fire and the strange fire, but there's no legitimate Scripture that authorizes such a comparison. This is a fiction.

Third,

you've thrown into the mix a reference to Mark 9:44 which has absolutely NOTHING to do with any of the other things!

Mark 9:42-48 (KJV)

42 "And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Verse 44 is repeated twice more in verses 46 and 48. Several Greek versions don't include verses 44 and 46, although they all seem to have verse 48, at least. The "worm" there is the Greek word "skooleex," pronounced "sko'-lakes," meaning a chewing worm that feasts on decaying flesh, such as a maggot.

The "fire that is not quenched" is that of the Lake of Fire, but "hell" mentioned in verses 43, 43, and 47 is the Greek word "ge-enna," often written "gehenna," meaning "valley of Hinnowm," where the kings would set up their judgment thrones outside of the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. On the left, were the fires of the trash heap where criminals would be stoned and burned, and on the right, was the Golden Gate into the city, near the location of the Temple, where the acquitted would be required to make a sacrifice and enter into the city with their alleged crimes expunged.

However, this was not the same fire, nor was it the same situation, nor was it the same creature! So, why?

Fourth,

One doesn't have to confuse the base Hebrew word with the "l-" prefix meaning "to," "unto," or "for." The "taniyn," or "taniynim" (plural in Hebrew) is a "sea snake." It's found in Job 7, but more importantly, it is listed in Genesis 1:21 as one of God's created beings:

Genesis 1:20-23 (KJV)

20 And God said,

"Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."

21 And God created great whales (Hebrew: hataniynim hagadowliym = "the-sea-serpents the-huge"), and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying,

"Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth."

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

On 2/24/2022 at 11:51 PM, Golds and Blues said:

Moshe was instructed to raise the Seraf upon a standard. Keen ears and eyes. Did Moshe follow the instruction exactly as The Lord said? 

This, of course, refers to that incident in which the children of Israel were being bitten by the "s'raafiym" around them. Here's the text:

Numbers 21:4-9 (KJV)

4 And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea, to compass the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. 5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses,

"Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread!"

6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. 7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said,

"We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us."

And Moses prayed for the people. 8 And the LORD said unto Moses,

"Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live."

9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

So, whatever you THINK is the right answer to your skeptical question, the true answer is, YES, Mosheh did EXACTLY as YHWH had commanded him to do. Mosheh chose to make it out of brass, but if it wasn't done correctly, it wouldn't have worked to heal the people who were bitten! The proof that it was done as YHWH had said, is that when people looked upon the saaraaf of brass, they were healed. God VALIDATED the saaraaf that Mosheh made!

However, there IS a bad end to this thing Mosheh made:

2 Kings 18:1-6 (KJV)

1 Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. 2 Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Abi, the daughter of Zachariah. 3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did. 4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan (Hebrew: n'huwshtaan = "a hunk of brass"). 5 He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. 6 For he clave to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses.

People started to burn incense to it, as though it was a "SACRED RELIC!" They were treating it as though it was some special, magical object, almost worthy to be worshipped! Hezekiah took the thing and broke it into pieces, saying it was merely a "hunk of brass." They weren't supposed to be trusting in and showing respect to this relic; they were supposed to be trusting in YHWH, the God of Israel!

On 2/24/2022 at 11:51 PM, Golds and Blues said:

You will need to study further to find the finer details in The Spirit of wisdom given on The mountain.

You need to get away from this allegorical nonsense, and quit trusting in Spiritualism.

[Retrobyter]

6 hours ago, Golds and Blues said:

The prophet sh'muel gives the definition of rebellion as nachash ie divination.

Shalom, Golds and Blues.

If you're referring to 1 Samuel 15:23, "naachaash" is not found in that verse at all. Shmu'eel ("Samuel") said that "Rebellion" (Hebrew: meriy) is "as the sin of witchcraft" (Hebrew: chaTTa't-qesem), qesem meaning "divination," but he said NOTHING about "naachaash."

6 hours ago, Golds and Blues said:

Just as rebellion is described as strange fire offered by the arrogant children who died.

If you're still referring to NaadaaV and AVihuw' (Nadab and Abihu), they weren't just "arrogant children"; they were young adults (a person had to be at least 20 to be a priest) who were inattentive to the details God had particularly laid out for them to follow! By not following all the steps and in the correct order, they got themselves killed!

Their deaths MAY have been due to arrogance, but we're not told so. Don't read into the text what isn't there! The truth is their deaths were caused by NOT FOLLOWING DIRECTIONS!

6 hours ago, Golds and Blues said:

And as in 2 kings the example of rebellion given grows into idolatry.[exodus 20;4-7]

Well, could you be any more cryptic? Here's a reference to the WHOLE BOOK of 2 Kings, and a vague link between "rebellion" and "idolatry!" And, then, you throw in the reference to the second and third of the Ten Commandments! EXPLAIN, please!

6 hours ago, Golds and Blues said:

In numbers 21 the hebrew pertains to my question concerning moshe. He was a man that made mistakes yet was humble till his end. The Lord specifically instructed that a seraf be raised on a banner. And yet moshe raised a brazen nachash.

Okay, I can understand where you're coming from in a general way, but where do you get the idea that YHWH God specifically instructed him "that a seraf be raised on a banner?" The Hebrew word for banner is "דֶּגֶל" ("degel"). I don't find that word ANYWHERE within the text!

6 hours ago, Golds and Blues said:

No need to retreat to the english translations if desire of the Truth is in the heart. Everyone should enjoy a hebrew word study. Look closer to see if nachash is in the hebrew text.

ח  וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֶל-מֹשֶׁה, עֲשֵׂה לְךָ שָׂרָף, וְשִׂים אֹתוֹ, עַל-נֵס; וְהָיָה, כָּל-הַנָּשׁוּךְ, וְרָאָה אֹתוֹ, וָחָי.

8 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole; and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he seeth it, shall live.'

 

Blessings in your studies

 

Thank you. Let's make this a little simpler to understand:

The Hebrew text (which is read from right to left) of verse 8 is:

וַיֹּ֨אמֶר יְהוָ֜ה אֶל־מֹשֶׁ֗ה עֲשֵׂ֤ה לְךָ֙ שָׂרָ֔ף וְשִׂ֥ים אֹתֹ֖ו עַל־נֵ֑ס וְהָיָה֙ כָּל־הַנָּשׁ֔וּךְ וְרָאָ֥ה אֹתֹ֖ו וָחָֽי׃

The transliterated Hebrew text (read left to right) of verse 8 is:

8 Vayyo'mer YHWH 'el-Mosheh `aseeh l-khaa saaraaf v-siym 'otow `al-neec v-haayaah kaal-hanaashuwkh v-raa'aah '0tow vaachaay:

Translated word for word, we get ...

8 And-said YHWH to-Moses, "Make to-yourself a-fiery-[serpent] and-put it upon-a-pole and-shall-come-to-pass everyone-bitten and-looks on-it shall-live": 

Nope. "Naachaash" is NOT in the text, although "saaraaf" is.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Retrobyter
to fix a spelling

[Retrobyter]

On 3/1/2022 at 5:41 PM, Golds and Blues said:

Kohanim were between 30 and 50 yrs of age.[numbers 4]

Shalom, Golds and Blues.

I stand corrected. You're right; I was thinking about those who could be numbered as soldiers in their army.

On 3/1/2022 at 5:41 PM, Golds and Blues said:

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/words/Tongs

The english translation is inherently obscured from the hebrew meaning of seraf. The only form of their likeness is described by yeshayahu and yochanon in revelation. Their armored visage are also known as the 4 banners of yshrayl while encamped. Eagle, Lion, Man, Oxen. Which is relative to the 4 rows upon the Choshen that reflect The Fire.

As for divination, sorcery, rebellion, strange fire, etc. The contextual meaning is apparent when studying the historical uses of each word. Nachash(ie enchantment) is to jacob as Qesem(ie divination) is to Israel. In the spirit of understanding a son or daughter is well enough in age to see the meanings are comparable where Wisdom is concerned.

כג  כִּי לֹא-נַחַשׁ בְּיַעֲקֹב, וְלֹא-קֶסֶם בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל; כָּעֵת, יֵאָמֵר לְיַעֲקֹב וּלְיִשְׂרָאֵל, מַה-פָּעַל, אֵל.

23 For there is no enchantment with Jacob, neither is there any divination with Israel; now is it said of Jacob and of Israel: 'What hath God wrought!'

In the spirit of COMMUNICATION, didn't I ask IF you were referring to 1 Samuel 15:23? Finally able to see the WHOLE quote, I discerned you are speaking of Numbers 23:23! For all your knowledge, if you don't communicate from WHERE you are pulling your information, all you've done is to engender CONFUSION!

STATE YOUR REFERENCE!

Now, that I'm looking at the right verse, I can finally agree to what you've written! (IN PART).

Let's look at the Hebrew of this verse a little closer:

A transliteration of what you have written would be ...

23 Kiy lo'-nachash b-Ya`aqoV, v-lo'-qesem b-Yisraa'eel; kaa`eet, yee'aameer l-Ya`aqoV uwl-Yisraa'eel, mah-paa`al, 'Eel.

A word-for-word translation would be ...

23 For not-an-enchantment in-Jacob, and-not-a-divination in-Israel; now, shall-be-said to-Jacob and-to-Israel, "What-has-been-done, O-God?!"

These are the words of Bil`aam ("Balaam") to Baalaaq ("Balak") in Baalaaq's second attempt to have Bil`aam curse the children of Israel. What Bil`aam is saying is that no enchantment, no divination will stick in Jacob or in Israel! "They're TEFLON, baby!"

The last sentence, in the quotes (in the transliteration), means "What has been accomplished, O God?" The answer is: NOTHING! It's been a WASTE OF TIME to try to curse the children of Israel!

Although "nachash" (nakh'-ash) is of the same family of words as is "naachaash" (naw-khawsh'), the two words ARE pronounced differently and have different meanings. It's not truly about the snake, although snakes were used in attempts at enchantment.

The point here, as far as the Hebrew is concerned, is that neither "with" nor "against" is a good translation of "b-" meaning "in." And, it's important to recognize that the "`Eel " at the end of the verse, is a DIRECT REFERENCE to God Himself, an appositive. Furthermore, with the word "mah," meaning "what," this is a QUESTION, not a STATEMENT.

Now, the first two lines: "Kiy lo'-nachash b-Ya`aqoV, v-lo'-qesem b-Yisraa'eel" are a COUPLET; that is, in Hebrew poetry, they were coupled together as either synonyms, antonyms, or strengthening the thought. In this particular case, they were synonyms. "Ya`aqoV" ("Jacob") is EXACTLY THE SAME PERSON as "Yisraa'eel" ("Israel"). And, the children of Israel were Jacob's children! It's just that Ya`aqoV's name (meaning "trickster") was changed to Yisraa`eel (meaning "a 'prince' [winner] of God").

To make a relationship such as ...

nachash : Ya`aqoV :: qesem : Yisraa'eel

is really rather pointless. Since, "Ya`aqoV" = "Yisraa'eel," then "nachash" = "qesem."

If you're trying to say the MEANINGS of the words are compared ...

enchantment : trickster :: divination : a-prince-of-God

it's still dubious.

[In Him]

Water, Salt, and bread.

וַיֹּ֗אמֶר קְחוּ־לִי֙ צְלֹחִ֣ית חֲדָשָׁ֔ה וְשִׂ֥ימוּ שָׁ֖ם מֶ֑לַח וַיִּקְח֖וּ אֵלָֽיו׃ He responded, “Bring me a new dish and put salt in it.” They brought it to him;

Salt and its uses for tanning employ an important service likened to a shield. A son or daughter visiting a tanner and tentmaker could learn well of this beautifully unique value of salt.

יח  וְלִזְבוּלֻן אָמַר, שְׂמַח זְבוּלֻן בְּצֵאתֶךָ; וְיִשָּׂשכָר, בְּאֹהָלֶיךָ.	18 And of Zebulun he said: Rejoice, Zebulun, in thy going out, and, Issachar, in thy tents.
יט  עַמִּים, הַר-יִקְרָאוּ--שָׁם, יִזְבְּחוּ זִבְחֵי-צֶדֶק:  כִּי שֶׁפַע יַמִּים יִינָקוּ, וּשְׂפֻנֵי טְמוּנֵי חוֹל.  {ס}	19 They shall call peoples unto the mountain; there shall they offer sacrifices of righteousness; for they shall suck the abundance of the seas, and the hidden treasures of the sand.

[Numbers 4][isaiah 54][Ezekiel 43][Acts 10}{18]

There is much to share in the treasures of sand with a mirror of Pearl's. Stones upon the choshen 4 rows and faces of good soil. A work to see the serafim that are the names of the women upon the ark.

Silence upon the vessel half an hour. The half hr named dinah.

 Baptism in water is memory of dinah

Count the wings of the birds that noach sent out and you'll see the seraf

 

https://sarata.com/bible/verses/about/tents.html

Blessings in the fluidity of time

Edited March 4, 2022 by In Him

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, In Him said:

Water, Salt, and bread.

וַיֹּ֗אמֶר קְחוּ־לִי֙ צְלֹחִ֣ית חֲדָשָׁ֔ה וְשִׂ֥ימוּ שָׁ֖ם מֶ֑לַח וַיִּקְח֖וּ אֵלָֽיו׃ He responded, “Bring me a new dish and put salt in it.” They brought it to him;

Salt and its uses for tanning employ an important service likened to a shield. A son or daughter visiting a tanner and tentmaker could learn well of this beautifully unique value of salt.

Shalom, In Him.

Perhaps, but what are you actually trying to say?

2 hours ago, In Him said:

יח  וְלִזְבוּלֻן אָמַר, שְׂמַח זְבוּלֻן בְּצֵאתֶךָ; וְיִשָּׂשכָר, בְּאֹהָלֶיךָ.18 And of Zebulun he said: Rejoice, Zebulun, in thy going out, and, Issachar, in thy tents.יט  עַמִּים, הַר-יִקְרָאוּ--שָׁם, יִזְבְּחוּ זִבְחֵי-צֶדֶק:  כִּי שֶׁפַע יַמִּים יִינָקוּ, וּשְׂפֻנֵי טְמוּנֵי חוֹל.  {ס}19 They shall call peoples unto the mountain; there shall they offer sacrifices of righteousness; for they shall suck the abundance of the seas, and the hidden treasures of the sand. 

[Numbers 4][isaiah 54][Ezekiel 43][Acts 10}{18]

It appears that your subject of interest is "tents," but WHAT'S YOUR POINT?!

2 hours ago, In Him said:

There is much to share in the treasures of sand with a mirror of Pearl's. Stones upon the choshen 4 rows and faces of good soil. A work to see the serafim that are the names of the women upon the ark.

Silence upon the vessel half an hour. The half hr named dinah.

 Baptism in water is memory of dinah

Count the wings of the birds that noach sent out and you'll see the seraf

I'll give you the same information I gave Golds and Blues:

"Count the wings." Ridiculous.

TWO birds were sent out, one at a time, and one three times. So, there were a total of four wings, but not all on the same creature! There were two per bird, same as today.

Raven - flew back and forth over the waters until they dried up enough. (Genesis 8:7)
Dove - Came back to rest. (Genesis 8:8-9)
Dove - Came back with an olive branch. (Genesis 8:10-11)
Dove - Didn't come back. (Genesis 8:12)

The birds don't have ANYTHING to do with "angels!"

And,

Nope. Sorry, too many birds and too many wings. He sent out the same bird (the dove) three times.

STICK TO THE SCRIPTURES! Don't YOU be guilty of making up the "truth!"

Here's the chronology:

7/17/600 - the ark ran aground on Mount Ararat
10/1/600 - the tops of the mountains were seen
11/10/600 - the window was uncovered and the raven and dove were sent; dove returned
11/17/600 - dove sent out again returning with an olive branch
11/24/600 - dove sent out again and didn't return
1/1/601 - waters dried up off the earth; surface of the earth was dry
2/27/601 - earth was completely dry; Noach, his family, and all animals were told to leave the ark

DON'T be a mouthpiece for the author of confusion!

[Alive]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, In Him.

Perhaps, but what are you actually trying to say?

It appears that your subject of interest is "tents," but WHAT'S YOUR POINT?!

I'll give you the same information I gave Golds and Blues:

 

"Count the wings." Ridiculous.

TWO birds were sent out, one at a time, and one three times. So, there were a total of four wings, but not all on the same creature! There were two per bird, same as today.

Raven - flew back and forth over the waters until they dried up enough. (Genesis 8:7)
Dove - Came back to rest. (Genesis 8:8-9)
Dove - Came back with an olive branch. (Genesis 8:10-11)
Dove - Didn't come back. (Genesis 8:12)

The birds don't have ANYTHING to do with "angels!"

And,

 

Nope. Sorry, too many birds and too many wings. He sent out the same bird (the dove) three times.

STICK TO THE SCRIPTURES! Don't YOU be guilty of making up the "truth!"

Here's the chronology:

7/17/600 - the ark ran aground on Mount Ararat
10/1/600 - the tops of the mountains were seen
11/10/600 - the window was uncovered and the raven and dove were sent; dove returned
11/17/600 - dove sent out again returning with an olive branch
11/24/600 - dove sent out again and didn't return
1/1/601 - waters dried up off the earth; surface of the earth was dry
2/27/601 - earth was completely dry; Noach, his family, and all animals were told to leave the ark

DON'T be a mouthpiece for the author of confusion!

Ease up on the rhetoric, retro.

Be nice.

[Alive]

4 minutes ago, Golds and Blues said:

"rhetoric"?

Will you care to elaborate on scripture concerning wings of Angel's.

The dove and crow have been mentioned. Which do you suppose is a clean bird?

Blessings Always

No--honestly, I am lost in this conversation.

:-)

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Golds and Blues said:

With faces upon water there are 6 wings. Doves in humility have their face and feet concealed. Wings of branches with leaves and blossoms in memorial to gan'eden.

Hmm 6 wings representing 3 high holy days. Pesach,shavuot,sukkot.

A noble thought indeed

Shalom, Golds and Blues.

"Doves in humility have their face and feet concealed." While that's an interesting theory and perhaps a nice sentiment, I doubt you have Scripture to back that up.

Neither you (nor I) know how many leaves and blossoms were on the branch of the olive branch that the dove brought back. WE'RE NOT TOLD SUCH USELESS INFORMATION!

And, apparently you didn't hear the Scriptures that we DO have:

1 raven with one trip (never came back)
1 dove with three trips!
1+1=2
 

The DOVE'S TRIPS:
1st trip = nothing; was tired
2nd trip = olive branch; was tired
3rd trip = didn't come back
1+1+1=3

The ONLY thing "stamped with a three" there were the number of trips of the dove!

Yes, there are three holy days in which the Jews had to make a trip to Jerusalem; however, there are far more holy days that those three. EVERY MONTH begins with Ro'sh Chodesh! Furthermore, every Shabbat is considered a "holy day!"

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

Ease up on the rhetoric, retro.

Be nice.

Shalom, Alive.

Okay. I just get a little annoyed by such treatment of Scripture.

I should add that we have SO MUCH DETAIL in the Holy Bible that we don't need to go off inventing more! We should just learn what's already there!

Reading into the Scriptures our own imagination is eisegesis, and that's a bad approach to understanding the Scriptures.

We should be using exegesis, reading FROM the Scriptures the information that the writers wanted us to know and what the AUTHOR wanted us to learn!

Edited March 4, 2022 by Retrobyter
to add a PS