Essential Biblical Eschatology

[Last Daze]

23 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Thus there is a difference between the Lord coming for His Body and take them to heaven, and later, the Lord coming to set up His kingdom rule through Israel on the earth. 

Hi Marilyn.  Always good to hear your thoughts.  I think we largely agree on major eschatological topics.  We may differ on timings and some beast interpretations, etc. but that's not really unusual.

I can't find anywhere in prophecy that talks about multiple returns of Christ.  It's always referenced as a singular event usually with a definite article i.e. "the" return of Christ, not "a" return of Christ.  Some people's eschatology requires them to create more than one return of Jesus because their views can't reconcile all of the scriptures that speak of it.  But never do we hear in scripture about the returns (plural) of Jesus.  

23 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

The question then is what do we believe? Is my inheritance Heaven or the earth?

Our blessed hope is eternal life in Christ.  I see it more as an existence rather than a location.  If in our immortal existence we can travel as the speed of thought, as some suggest, location would be irrelevant.  Either way, I'll be where He wants me to be.

[Last Daze]

23 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I have written all this just to show that there is a case for NATIONAL Israel having a future. And it is NATIONAL Israel that is the subject of the prophets. Those of Israel who believe, become the Church which must live by faith. It is not that we Christians should be uneducated as to eschatology, but we should know which prophecies belong to Israel and which belong to the Church. If we don't know which prophecies belong to who, we build hopes and even doctrine on a false foundation.

Thanks for taking the time to expound.  I tend to agree with your view but I understand that there are those who don't. 

The key points I was trying to make:

• The man of sin is given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation, and he is allowed to wage war against the saints and overcome them.  Rev 13:7
• The saints who come out of the tribulation are from every nation and all the tribes, peoples, and languages.  Revelation 7:9
• Both Jesus and John tie the time of great tribulation to the abomination of desolation.  Matt 24, Daniel 12
• Jesus will return, and when He does He will put an end to the man of sin and raises immortal those who are His.

There are certainly other things that will happen, and some of those things will likely affect only Israel.  I don't have any control over that and it will all work itself out but the great tribulation is global and will affect those believers alive at that time.  For that we should be alert and ready.  Yes, we're looking forward to the return of Jesus and our blessed hope of eternal life but we are not greater than our master.  In this world we will have tribulation.  If they persecuted Him, they will persecute us.  That comes first.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Hi Marilyn.  Always good to hear your thoughts.  I think we largely agree on major eschatological topics.  We may differ on timings and some beast interpretations, etc. but that's not really unusual.

I can't find anywhere in prophecy that talks about multiple returns of Christ.  It's always referenced as a singular event usually with a definite article i.e. "the" return of Christ, not "a" return of Christ.  Some people's eschatology requires them to create more than one return of Jesus because their views can't reconcile all of the scriptures that speak of it.  But never do we hear in scripture about the returns (plural) of Jesus.  

Our blessed hope is eternal life in Christ.  I see it more as an existence rather than a location.  If in our immortal existence we can travel as the speed of thought, as some suggest, location would be irrelevant.  Either way, I'll be where He wants me to be.

Hi Last Daze,

I hear what you are saying about `the` return of Christ, and I agree that there is only one more return of Christ to this earth. He will return to the mount of Olives just as He said He would. 

Then I believe that the Lord will `APPEAR to His own and we are changed and APPEAR with Him in glory not ON the earth. 

 

`To those who eagerly wait for Him He will APPEAR a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. ` Heb. (9: 27)

`...we know that when He shall APPEAR, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.` (1 John 3: 2)

 

Notice that this APPEARING of the Lord is ONLY to a select few - `those who eagerly wait,` and NOT every eye. Only when the Lord returns to earth shall every eye see Him.

 

 

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ad Hoc,

I love to answer questions therefore I do not evade any. I may misunderstand what some one is saying but never not want to answer them.

I thought I had replied to your questions. You seemed to be saying that Christians took over from Israel, while I was pointing out the opposite. 

Perhaps that topic, (as you said) be kept for its own thread.

Marilyn.

Sure. No problem.

Go well.

[branchesofHim]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Our blessed hope is eternal life in Christ.  I see it more as an existence rather than a location.  If in our immortal existence we can travel as the speed of thought, as some suggest, location would be irrelevant.  Either way, I'll be where He wants me to be.

We go to be with Christ immortal. Shalom

John 14:[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Last Daze,

I hear what you are saying about `the` return of Christ, and I agree that there is only one more return of Christ to this earth. He will return to the mount of Olives just as He said He would. 

Then I believe that the Lord will `APPEAR to His own and we are changed and APPEAR with Him in glory not ON the earth. 

 

`To those who eagerly wait for Him He will APPEAR a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. ` Heb. (9: 27)

`...we know that when He shall APPEAR, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.` (1 John 3: 2)

 

Notice that this APPEARING of the Lord is ONLY to a select few - `those who eagerly wait,` and NOT every eye. Only when the Lord returns to earth shall every eye see Him.

I'm not sure why you're making a distinction between His appearing and His second coming.

• So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.  Hebrews 9:28

Paul says that those who are Christ's are made immortal at His coming.  He will appear to His own for salvation.  I don't see any difference.

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Notice that this APPEARING of the Lord is ONLY to a select few - `those who eagerly wait,` and NOT every eye. Only when the Lord returns to earth shall every eye see Him.

The Lord appears to a select few for salvation.  That doesn't preclude every eye from seeing it.  It means that only those who eagerly await Him receive salvation.  

[branchesofHim]

8 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Paul says that those who are Christ's are made immortal at His coming.  He will appear to His own for salvation. 

His own. Those who are His in truth (spirit). Indeed. Shalom

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I'm not sure why you're making a distinction between His appearing and His second coming.

• So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.  Hebrews 9:28

Paul says that those who are Christ's are made immortal at His coming.  He will appear to His own for salvation.  I don't see any difference.

The Lord appears to a select few for salvation.  That doesn't preclude every eye from seeing it.  It means that only those who eagerly await Him receive salvation.  

Hi Last Daze,

This diagram is what I believe are God`s 3 Prophetic Days, the `Last Days.`  I believe that when Jesus ascended to the Father that it was then that the Last Days of God`s purposes began. If Jesus had not died and rose and ascended then the world would have gone on till annihilation or God judged them. Thus the clock started with the Lord ascending to the Father and the process started of building His Body and then finally judging the nations and ruling with a rod of iron.

 

God`s 3 Prophetic Days. (Day - a period of time and also a specific day.)

1. The Day of Christ - period of time (Day) building and maturing the Body. And then the specific day Christ comes for His Body.

2. The Day of the Lord (God Almighty for judgment) - period of time for dealing with Israel and the nations and the specific Day when the Lord returns to earth to deliver Israel and judge the nations.  

3. The Day of God - the New heavens and New earth, eternity.

   

[Diaste]

This split off into several topics very quickly.

 

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

This split off into several topics very quickly.

It certainly has the potential to turn into a cat-herding thread.

I intentionally left out any talk of the rapture, Babylon, the mark & image, Israel, the temple, the 70th week, etc. because those kinds of things will be what they are.  Our understanding of those kinds of things will change as time goes on and we reconcile our perceptions with what's taking place.

Contrast those things with the great tribulation.  Tribulation for the believer is nothing new.  It may have varied from century to century and location to location as the gospel was being spread but Jesus tells us that before His return, there will be a time of global, unprecedented tribulation associated with the abomination of desolation (man of sin).  This will affect every believer alive at that time.  We can't control how the various aspects of prophecy are going to unfold but we can control our response to persecution.  That's essential to each of us individually.