Essential Biblical Eschatology

[Marilyn C]

On 3/9/2022 at 4:19 AM, Last Daze said:

While our understanding of biblical eschatology isn't a salvation issue, God has foretold us of future events for a reason (Matthew 24:25) and its not a subject we should ignore.  Knowing ahead of time what to expect will help us in discerning truth from error.  While we may see the imagery, allegories, and details differently, there is a framework of understanding that's common throughout the different views of biblical eschatology.  The following are what I see as future events that are essential to that understanding:

• The Return of Christ - Acts 1:9-11 states that Jesus will return in the same manner that He ascended.  In Matthew 24:27 Jesus tells us that His coming will be very attention getting.  Revelation 1:7 states that every eye will see Him when He returns.  In 1 Corinthians 15:23 Paul says that those who are Christ's are made immortal when He returns.  The day of Christ's return is still future and is the focal point of biblical eschatology.
• The Great Tribulation - Jesus says in Matthew 24:21 that when the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place that there will be a time of tribulation worse than the world has ever seen or ever will.  Daniel also references this time in Daniel 12:1 and goes on to say in verse seven that it will last for a time, times, and half a time which is commonly understood to be three and one-half years.  Given the scope of the flood in the days of Noah, nothing worse than that has occurred since the time of Christ so this event is still future.
• The Man of Sin - Paul tells us in 2 Thessalonians 2:8 that when Christ returns, He will bring an end to the man of sin, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and false signs and wonders.  Daniel 7:21-22 describes that event and adds that the man of sin is waging war against the saints and prevailing.  This is the same thing we read about in Revelation 13:7 and confirmed in Revelation 7:14.  According to Revelation 13:5 and Daniel 7:25, the man of sin is given authority to act for 42 months, the same duration as the great tribulation.

The return of Christ is future.  The great tribulation is future as is the man of sin's war against the saints during that time.  Whether there's a seven year agreement or rebuilt temple coming, or whether this country invades that one will all work itself out.  It may be fun to discuss but don't neglect the weightier matters.  Jesus tells us to be ready and on the alert for His return and not to be misled by anyone.  If they persecuted Him, they will persecute us.  Prepare for it and endure to the end.  This world is not our home.

Hi last Daze,

I`ll make my thoughts clearer. Biblical eschatology - Greek Eschatos,` last and Logos, subject. Thus the doctrine of Last things. God`s word quite clearly presents a sequence which unfolds the divine purpose for three classes of people - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations. 

1. Thus there is a time-slot for events that relate to the Church culminating in the glorious appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ. An event which the Bible refers to as the Day of Christ.  

2. There is a time fore world events, affecting nations, leading up to the supreme dictator who will gather all people to the great battle Armageddon. There is a time for tribulation and judgment, upon the whole unbelieving world; but primarily upon Israel, to prepare them for the promised period of blessing and prosperity during the millennial reign of Christ. Scripture refers to this period of time as the Day of the Lord.

3. Finally, with the ultimate restitution of all things, time will be come absorbed into the Eternal Purpose in the Day of God.

 

Note: You have started at point 2 and not taken into account point 1, the Body of Christ (Church) during the Day of Christ.

[Last Daze]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Note: You have started at point 2 and not taken into account point 1, the Body of Christ (Church) during the Day of Christ.

Thanks for the clarification Marilyn.  I don't see the separation that you do . . . the day of Christ separate from the day of the Lord.  Christ is the Lord.  Either way, I'm ready.

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Thanks for the clarification Marilyn.  I don't see the separation that you do . . . the day of Christ separate from the day of the Lord.  Christ is the Lord.  Either way, I'm ready.

I quite understand bro, as we do say, the Lord Jesus Christ. However there is a difference between the Day of Christ and the Day of the LORD, (with capitals). Let`s look at what God`s word says about those special Days. Remembering the word Day is a period of time and a specific day.

 

1. The Day of Christ, (the Lord Jesus Christ) - for building up and maturing the Body of Christ.

Paul talking to his Philippian disciples  `...being confident of this very thing, that He who begun a good work in you will complete it until the Day of Christ.......that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offence till the Day of Christ.` (Phil. 1: 6 - 10)

`holding fast the word of life so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or laboured in vain.` (Phil. 2: 16)

Paul talking to his Corinthian disciples  `...so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.` (1 Cor. 1: 7 & 8)

 

2. The Day of the LORD (God Almighty) - in wrath and judgment on the nations.

`Blow the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain! Let all the  inhabitants of the land tremble; for the day of the LORD is coming, for it is at hand: a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness...` (Joel 2: 1 & 2)

`The great Day of the LORD is near; it is near and hastens quickly.

The noise of the day of the LORD is bitter; there the mighty men shall cry out.

That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress,

a day of devastation and desolation,

a day of darkness and thick gloominess,

a day of clouds and thick darkness,

a day of trumpet and alarm against the fortified cities and against the high towers.` (Zeph. 1: 14 - 16)  

 

 

 

 

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, Josheb said:

Well, Jesus did not tell me any of that. He did not tell you any of that, either. He said those words to a specific group of people and Christians living long after those individuals had died took those words and applied them to themselves. Many Christians have done so far beyond the extension permitted by the texts themselves. They have made the "you" of Jesus' words a "they" or a "we". That is non-essential and too much of it leads to beliefs Jesus and the apostles never taught. 

I feel this is a very unusual take. Some could construe this as nothing in scripture applies to 21st century. We aren't the contemporaries to the preaching of Jesus or the ministry of the Apostles. 

Where does it end?

John 3:16 applies to everyone, yes? But we were not there. Yet that verse, Jesus, The Spirit, the scripture, speaks to us today. 

So in John 3:16 we see, "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

How is "And what I say to you, I say to everyone: Keep watch!”" from Mark 13 essentially different and applicable only to the 1st century?

The Greek for 'everyone' is the same in both passages. But John 3:16 is for everyone and Mark 13:37 is limited to the 1st century?

I'm not buying.

So then since the same person said both of the above, and He's the God of the universe and the King of kings and the greatest prophet, and both utterances are indeed prophetic, and both contain similar wording reflecting scope; the King of all things gave all a sure word of prophecy meant for everyone reading the words, everyone of all ages. 

Meaning the OP is logical. 

[Last Daze]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

I feel this is a very unusual take. Some could construe this as nothing in scripture applies to 21st century. We aren't the contemporaries to the preaching of Jesus or the ministry of the Apostles. 

Where does it end?

John 3:16 applies to everyone, yes? But we were not there. Yet that verse, Jesus, The Spirit, the scripture, speaks to us today. 

So in John 3:16 we see, "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

How is "And what I say to you, I say to everyone: Keep watch!”" from Mark 13 essentially different and applicable only to the 1st century?

The Greek for 'everyone' is the same in both passages. But John 3:16 is for everyone and Mark 13:37 is limited to the 1st century?

I'm not buying.

So then since the same person said both of the above, and He's the God of the universe and the King of kings and the greatest prophet, and both utterances are indeed prophetic, and both contain similar wording reflecting scope; the King of all things gave all a sure word of prophecy meant for everyone reading the words, everyone of all ages. 

Meaning the OP is logical. 

Took the words right out of my mouth.

And was there a great tribulation that was worse than the global flood that took place in the first century?  Did Christ return in the first century and destroy the man of sin who committed the abomination of desolation?  I haven't heard of anything of the sort.

[Last Daze]

8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

I quite understand bro, as we do say, the Lord Jesus Christ. However there is a difference between the Day of Christ and the Day of the LORD, (with capitals). Let`s look at what God`s word says about those special Days. Remembering the word Day is a period of time and a specific day.

1. The Day of Christ, (the Lord Jesus Christ) - for building up and maturing the Body of Christ.

Paul talking to his Philippian disciples  `...being confident of this very thing, that He who begun a good work in you will complete it until the Day of Christ.......that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offence till the Day of Christ.` (Phil. 1: 6 - 10)

`holding fast the word of life so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or laboured in vain.` (Phil. 2: 16)

Paul talking to his Corinthian disciples  `...so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.` (1 Cor. 1: 7 & 8)

2. The Day of the LORD (God Almighty) - in wrath and judgment on the nations.

`Blow the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain! Let all the  inhabitants of the land tremble; for the day of the LORD is coming, for it is at hand: a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness...` (Joel 2: 1 & 2)

`The great Day of the LORD is near; it is near and hastens quickly.

The noise of the day of the LORD is bitter; there the mighty men shall cry out.

That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress,

a day of devastation and desolation,

a day of darkness and thick gloominess,

a day of clouds and thick darkness,

a day of trumpet and alarm against the fortified cities and against the high towers.` (Zeph. 1: 14 - 16)  

Thanks Marilyn.  I see the difference you're making.  What I don't see is that it is separated by much time.  The difference between the two is that one is for the believers, the other for unbelievers.  According to how I understand prophecy, that all happens on the same day.  Believers receive immortality (day of Christ) and the wicked are destroyed in judgment (day of the LORD). 

[WilliamL]

On 3/10/2022 at 8:47 AM, Last Daze said:

The one passage that I see as addressing both natural and spiritual Israel is found in Revelation 12.

• So the dragon was enraged with the woman [natural], and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus [spiritual].  Revelation 12:17

Nothing natural at all about this Shekhinah woman.

2) Who is the Woman? Like the Manchild, the Woman-with-child is a mystical body. Not the Church, which is a Virgin Bride. And not the race of Israel, which is flesh-and-blood.

Western left-brain Protestant Christianity has largely ignored any concept of the Feminine Divine, even though the Adamic race was “made in Elohim’s image, male and female.” Gen. 1:27 Catholicism has carnalized the Feminine Divine into the person of Mary. Only mystical Judaism, and to some extent mystical Christianity, have spoken of the Feminine Divine.

Hebraic teachings of old say that one of the attributes of the One God is the emotional desire to form, gestate, bring forth and nurture living creatures. This tradition also says that when Adam and Eve were driven out of God’s garden into the earthly wilderness, this Divine Feminine either went with them or regularly visited them, in order to nurture her children as any mother would. The most well-known name for her is the Shekhinah, the feminine Presence/form of the Divine.

This mystical Woman/mother – emotionally bound to the nurturing of her children, and to their upbringing in wisdom, righteousness, and maturity – is spoken of in Ezekiel:

Ezek. 19:2, 10-13 What is thy mother? A lioness: she lay down among lions, she nourished her whelps among young lions. … Thy mother is like a vine in thy blood [the place of the soul, Lev. 17:11] ... And now she is planted in the wilderness, in a dry and thirsty ground.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1053-revelation-12/

 

[Last Daze]

51 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

2) Who is the Woman? Like the Manchild, the Woman-with-child is a mystical body. Not the Church, which is a Virgin Bride. And not the race of Israel, which is flesh-and-blood.

Compare Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:

• Then he had yet another dream, and informed his brothers of it, and said, “Behold, I have had yet another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”  He also told it to his father as well as to his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, “What is this dream that you have had? Am I and your mother and your brothers actually going to come to bow down to the ground before you?” 

with Revelation 12:1

• A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

There may be a spiritual aspect to it but the parallels are too close to ignore.

[WilliamL]

10 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Compare Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:

• Then he had yet another dream, and informed his brothers of it, and said, “Behold, I have had yet another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”  He also told it to his father as well as to his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, “What is this dream that you have had? Am I and your mother and your brothers actually going to come to bow down to the ground before you?” 

with Revelation 12:1

• A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

There may be a spiritual aspect to it but the parallels are too close to ignore.

BLB reference shows there are 14 Bible verses that use the words "sun, moon, and stars." So I see no reason to pick out the one in Genesis as uniquely relevant to Rev. 12.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

BLB reference shows there are 14 Bible verses that use the words "sun, moon, and stars." So I see no reason to pick out the one in Genesis as uniquely relevant to Rev. 12.

How many of those 14 verses use sun, moon, and 12 stars?