A Land of Unwalled Villages

[Alive]

39 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Ah, but literal to one is not always the same translation as the literal to another. Case in point:

"shall go up from year to year" : "from": Hebrew מִדֵּי.   The  מִ is a preposition that means "from, out of." But what does דַּי mean?

דַּי: KJV Translation Count — Total: 38x

The KJV translates Strong's H1767 in the following manner: enough (6x), sufficient (5x), from (5x), when (3x), since (3x), able (3x), miscellaneous (13x).

Outline of Biblical Usage:

sufficiency, enough

enough

for, according to the abundance of, out of the abundance of, as often as

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)

דַּי day, dahee; of uncertain derivation; enough (as noun or adverb), used chiefly with preposition in phrases:—able, according to, after (ability), among, as (oft as), (more than) enough, from, in, since, (much as is) sufficient(-ly), too much, very, when.

This double-word  מִדֵּי is in the NKJV translated to mean "from," ignoring the second part of the word. But the full double word could be well translated "from as often as." In short, the biblical Hebrew is unclear, as it often is. There is no definitive "literal translation" here.

Now, verse 17 has "And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem..." "Of the families," to me, seems to clarify the meaning: representatives of the nations, not the whole nations themselves = every single soul in every single year.  Because, as I pointed out earlier, that would seem to be a ludicrous statement. Some of the representatives come every single year; others do not = "as often as."

Nice try, but we were speaking a specific verse.

lol

Read it in YLT, ESV and NASB and look up the word in Lexes.

Anyway, I was making a couple observations that point to consistency or not.

Dispensationalists rely on a literal interpretation and hinge the entire system on that.

[WilliamL]

9 minutes ago, Alive said:

Nice try, but we were speaking a specific verse.

lol

Read it in YLT, ESV and NASB and look up the word in Lexes.

Specific verses taken alone, out of their fuller context, have often become the foundation of heretical beliefs.

Read it in Interlinear Scripture Analyzer.

[Alive]

Just now, WilliamL said:

Specific verses taken alone, out of their fuller context, have often become the foundation of heretical beliefs.

Read it in Interlinear Scripture Analyzer.

Oh believe me I know. The trap here is to use that as a means of imposing scripture onto presupposition. That is how man made constructs are developed and such to lure vulnerable virgins into the sphere of those who do.

[WilliamL]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

The trap here is to use that as a means of imposing scripture onto presupposition. That is how man made constructs are developed and such to lure vulnerable virgins into the sphere of those who do.

You wanna say that in English?? Greek to me.

[Alive]

1 minute ago, WilliamL said:

You wanna say that in English?? Greek to me.

I am messing with you.

We all bring a set of presuppositions to our interpretation of scripture. Its vital that we first realize this and examine them. Many of us do not do this.

Further, when an individual develops a system that is couched in terms of something new or special in some way from what is commonly understood, it becomes a personal vision and mission for folks to get on board with, or be less special. Diminished somehow. This is how cults work. Usually around an individual. Always starts out subtle and progresses to less subtle.

[WilliamL]

16 minutes ago, Alive said:

Further, when an individual develops a system that is couched in terms of something new or special in some way from what is commonly understood, it becomes a personal vision and mission for folks to get on board with, or be less special.

You mean, like Jesus and the prophets did?

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

You mean, like Jesus and the prophets did?

Why do you dishonor your self this way?

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Try translating OT passages from Hebrew into English, and see how well YOU fare.

I have an Hebrew-English Tanakh, published by the Jewish Publication Society: top scholars of Hebrew. On at least every second or third page, in the footnotes at the bottom, there are one or more references to the cited verses that say, "Meaning of Hebrew uncertain."

But since you are so sure that "literal is literal, which version of the Bible will you attest to being perfectly literal??

I have not read all the Bibles but I would say all Bibles must be taken literally.

What is biblical literalism?

https://www.gotquestions.org/img/print.svg

ANSWER

Biblical literalism is the method of interpreting Scripture that holds that, except in places where the text is obviously allegorical, poetic, or figurative, it should be taken literally. Biblical literalism is the position of most evangelicals and Christian fundamentalists. It is the position of Got Questions Ministries as well. (See “Can/Should we interpret the Bible as literal?”)

Biblical literalism goes hand-in-hand with regarding the Word of God as inerrant and inspired. If we believe in the doctrine of biblical inspiration—that the books of the Bible were written by men under the influence of the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16–17; 2 Peter 1:20–21) to the extent that everything they wrote was exactly what God wanted to say—then a belief in biblical literalism is simply an acknowledgement that God wants to communicate to us via human language. The rules of human language then become the rules of interpreting Scripture. Words have objective meaning, and God has spoken through words.

Biblical literalism is an extension of the literalism that we all use in everyday communication. If someone enters a room and says, “The building is on fire,” we don’t start searching for figurative meanings; we start evacuating. No one stops to ponder whether the reference to “fire” is metaphorical or if the “building” is an oblique reference to 21st-century socio-economic theories. Similarly, when we open the Bible and read, “The Israelites went through the sea on dry ground, with a wall of water on their right and on their left” (Exodus 14:22), we shouldn’t look for figurative meanings for sea, dry ground, or wall of water; we should believe the miracle.

If we deny biblical literalism and try to interpret Scripture figuratively, how are the figures to be interpreted? And who decides what is and is not a figure? Were Adam and Eve real people? What about Cain and Abel? If they are figurative, where in Genesis can we start saying the people are literal individuals? Any dividing line between figurative and literal in the genealogies is arbitrary. Or take a New Testament example: did Jesus really say to love our enemies (Matthew 5:44)? Did He say it on a mountain? Was Jesus even real? Without a commitment to biblical literalism, we might as well throw out the whole Bible.

If biblical literalism is discarded, language becomes meaningless. If “five smooth stones” in 1 Samuel 17:40 doesn’t refer to five aerodynamic rocks, then what in the world did David pick out of the stream? More importantly, if words can mean anything we assign to them, there are no genuine promises in the Bible. The “place” that Jesus said He is preparing for us (John 14:3) needs to be literal, or else He is speaking nonsense. The “cross” that Jesus died on needs to be a literal cross, and His death needs to be a literal death in order for us to have salvation. Hell needs to be a literal place—as does heaven—if we are to have anything to be saved from. Jesus’ literal resurrection from a literal tomb is as equally important (1 Corinthians 15:17).

To be clear, biblical literalism does not ignore the dispensations. Commands given to Israel in the theocracy do not necessarily apply to the New Testament church. Also, biblical literalism does not require that every passage be concrete and not figurative. Idioms, metaphors, and illustrations are all a natural part of language and should be recognized as such. So, when Jesus speaks of His flesh being “food” in John 6: 55, we know He is speaking figuratively—“food” is an obvious metaphor. We follow the rules of language. We are alert to metaphors and the signals of similes, like and as. But unless a text is clearly intended to be figurative, we take it literally. God’s Word was designed to communicate, and communication requires a literal understanding of the words used.

Edited April 10, 2022 by missmuffet

[Dennis1209]

18 hours ago, Alive said:

Interesting: i assume this preemillenialist position during a literal 1000 year reign of Jesus on earth.

How will the peoples of all nations travel to Jerusalem each year? No technology?

You know, I have wondered the same thing about how all nations will have to go to Jerusalem annually? How will representatives travel across the ocean from this side of the hemisphere? The Bible does say all nations, and all means all. 

Taking into consideration how many people will be left after the tribulation, and how many will be allowed to enter the millennium in their natural physical state. 

Who would be left to pilot any airliners or ships? Much less fuel, service, control and maintain them. Who and how would fuel production, maintenance, and transportation continue to support such modern systems of travel? 

One-third of the earth's trees and green grass is going to be burned down. That is a hot fire and a large geographical area. I would think such an event kills all surface life, including human populations. Could this be the result of numerous nuclear exchanges between nations? 

Is it odd that the global superpower at the moment, America, and our side of the hemisphere are not mentioned in the end-times? NASA downplayed it, but there was a major solar flare event not long ago that missed the earth by only two weeks. Had it hit the earth, it would have caused who knows what?

North, South, and Central America is roughly 1/3 of the world's landmass. Could this 1/3 of everything be burned up by a CME or severe solar flare, on our side of the planet? Seems that would explain a few other things also? 

Depending on your news source, the sun is starting to act erratically right now?

[Alive]

12 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

You know, I have wondered the same thing about how all nations will have to go to Jerusalem annually? How will representatives travel across the ocean from this side of the hemisphere? The Bible does say all nations, and all means all. 

Taking into consideration how many people will be left after the tribulation, and how many will be allowed to enter the millennium in their natural physical state. 

Who would be left to pilot any airliners or ships? Much less fuel, service, control and maintain them. Who and how would fuel production, maintenance, and transportation continue to support such modern systems of travel? 

One-third of the earth's trees and green grass is going to be burned down. That is a hot fire and a large geographical area. I would think such an event kills all surface life, including human populations. Could this be the result of numerous nuclear exchanges between nations? 

Is it odd that the global superpower at the moment, America, and our side of the hemisphere are not mentioned in the end-times? NASA downplayed it, but there was a major solar flare event not long ago that missed the earth by only two weeks. Had it hit the earth, it would have caused who knows what?

North, South, and Central America is roughly 1/3 of the world's landmass. Could this 1/3 of everything be burned up by a CME or severe solar flare, on our side of the planet? Seems that would explain a few other things also? 

Depending on your news source, the sun is starting to act erratically right now?

Ask a scientist what would happen should a solar flare pierce the atmosphere so as to literally scorch a hemisphere?

I do not think so, Dennis.

and All does not always mean all.

:-)…that is easily proven.

No….I think most of this is symbolic.