The Revelation of Jesus Christ

[Patticats]

1 minute ago, missmuffet said:

Yes 

We said and posted that at the same time!

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, Patticats said:

We said and posted that at the same time!

We are on the same page. 

[debrakay]

Maybe I do not quite understand the experiment and it's hard for me to pretend to be someone other than me so if I am way off base on this response just move on.

When I was reading the words soon and near in the verses I thought about all of the times I have told someone I would be there soon and then the car would not start or I came down with something and could not go or an important phone call came in and I had to spend time on that issue.  So many things can delay my coming soon when I have said it.  When God uses the word soon do we tie Him down and make Him come and fulfill prophesy in our time or in His time?  

When I read the word near I thought about all of the people I love who are near to my heart.  They may be thousands of miles away or they may not even be on this earth any longer but they are very near to me!  Would I love to have them right next to me in physical form?  Of course, but in reality that is not possible.  But they are near in my mind and in my love for them always.  I think each of us who know the Lord do know that the "time is near" for His second coming but personally my time frame and His time frame have been very different throughout the years. My children have heard me say time and time again, "He is the God of the 11th hour, 59 minutes, 59 seconds."

The Book of Revelation has been in my scriptural reading off and on for much of the 40 years I have been seeking the Lord and His wisdom.  The Holy Spirit has been revealing things and helping me discern the truth of the word all throughout and I presume He will continue to reveal mysteries as my spirit seeks and understands them.  Each one of us are fearfully and wonderfully made and each one of us contributes to the whole church (us, the true believer) as He sees fit.  By the power of the Holy Spirit some contributions of that person's revelation of the words will be received while other's will not.  Don't we all know about the mysteries He spoke of and the potential revelation of those mysteries?  One individual's contribution of revelation may be worthy and another may not be.  It depends on what the Holy Spirit is teaching to each individual at any certain point in time of their lives. 

Whether it be the Book of Revelation or the revelation that comes from the power of the Holy Spirit, I believe Jesus is near and I believe He will come soon.  

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

I have been dutifully, before our Lord, studying scripture longer than most here and doing so while also studying voraciously what my brethren over the centuries have had to say. I have read more books on scripture and eschatolgy than I can count. This year alone 6 books on eschatology from various POV--with bible open or rather the miriad resources in my bible study software.

The Holy Spirit has taught me a great deal about Himself and our common Salvation and Life in Him on this earth and even a bit afterwards. I speak as a fool, now. 

He has directed me to people and places speaking to me directly and things panned out as He indicated. Souls saved, demons castout--the Lord revealing Himself in miraculous ways. Go here, son--I have something to show you and something for you to do. Half the people here don't even think a one on one personal relationship with our Lord is possible anymore. THAT is a mystery to me.

I say this to express that He has never actually shed light for me on Revelation---perhaps that means nothing and I am fine with that. Each member of the Body is different and functions differently, but I do know that should He desire to show me, He would and could--and I have asked. I believe some Light has recently been shown, but not interpretations of the letter.

Anyway, when I consider the above, along with the 'fact' that so many of my brethren claim the Lord has shown them the correct interpretation and yet are wildly different---I must ask myself how can this be.

I conclude once again....not all can be correct, but all may very well be wrong.

It is bewildering to me, why this reality can't be faced square on and then from there have honest Truth seeking conversations starting from that point.

How can it be. The Lord is not the author of confusion, my brethren.

Actually I am near certain, I understand why this is as it is, from both a natural perspective and a spiritual one.

Many of us have erected high towers and for various reasons. These things are not salvation related.

Do you know the world of the not yet saved, looks on this and shakes a collective head and says---these people all read the same bible and yet differ so much and are viciously divided by it.

All I have tried to do is suggest having an openness to a great deal being wrong.

I also suggest being about His business--expressing Christ-- in word and in deed.

He will return in due time--it matters not when. What matters is Love. Love for God and Love for our neighbors.

Maranatha--since I was a babe.

To recap--when someone in the OP posts that the Holy Spirit has taught them this stuff and other brothers say the same? And yet they differ? What are you to think about that?

Take it to the Lord--ask Him. He may answer. Is He Lord? Or is some construct.

 

Have you ever considered the more of mans "understanding" you take in, the more like man you become?  All you are doing is learning what that person thinks. 

You are wondering why people walk away with different understanding?  Remember when you were a child in school and they whispered one thing in one persons ear, and it was whispered into the ear of the next person, all the way to the end and the last person would say out loud what they were told?  Never the same as when it started.  Same when it comes to reading mans books or taking it straight from the Holy Spirit.

Ever wonder why scripture tell us that many of us should not be teachers?  I've noticed that most, when they become educated, also become prideful, where sooner than later their understanding becomes first, thinking they have all the answers.

As for being taught ...

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

If there is a difference, know it is not coming from the Holy Spirit.

[missmuffet]

4 minutes ago, debrakay said:

Maybe I do not quite understand the experiment and it's hard for me to pretend to be someone other than me so if I am way off base on this response just move on.

When I was reading the words soon and near in the verses I thought about all of the times I have told someone I would be there soon and then the car would not start or I came down with something and could not go or an important phone call came in and I had to spend time on that issue.  So many things can delay my coming soon when I have said it.  When God uses the word soon do we tie Him down and make Him come and fulfill prophesy in our time or in His time?  

When I read the word near I thought about all of the people I love who are near to my heart.  They may be thousands of miles away or they may not even be on this earth any longer but they are very near to me!  Would I love to have them right next to me in physical form?  Of course, but in reality that is not possible.  But they are near in my mind and in my love for them always.  I think each of us who know the Lord do know that the "time is near" for His second coming but personally my time frame and His time frame have been very different throughout the years. My children have heard me say time and time again, "He is the God of the 11th hour, 59 minutes, 59 seconds."

The Book of Revelation has been in my scriptural reading off and on for much of the 40 years I have been seeking the Lord and His wisdom.  The Holy Spirit has been revealing things and helping me discern the truth of the word all throughout and I presume He will continue to reveal mysteries as my spirit seeks and understands them.  Each one of us are fearfully and wonderfully made and each one of us contributes to the whole church (us, the true believer) as He sees fit.  By the power of the Holy Spirit some contributions of that person's revelation of the words will be received while other's will not.  Don't we all know about the mysteries He spoke of and the potential revelation of those mysteries?  One individual's contribution of revelation may be worthy and another may not be.  It depends on what the Holy Spirit is teaching to each individual at any certain point in time of their lives. 

Whether it be the Book of Revelation or the revelation that comes from the power of the Holy Spirit, I believe Jesus is near and I believe He will come soon.  

In God's perfect timing. Time will tell. 

[missmuffet]

7 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Have you ever considered the more of mans "understanding" you take in, the more like man you become?  All you are doing is learning what that person thinks. 

You are wondering why people walk away with different understanding?  Remember when you were a child in school and they whispered one thing in one persons ear, and it was whispered into the ear of the next person, all the way to the end and the last person would say out loud what they were told?  Never the same as when it started.  Same when it comes to reading mans books or taking it straight from the Holy Spirit.

Ever wonder why scripture tell us that many of us should not be teachers?  I've noticed that most, when they become educated, also become prideful, where sooner than later their understanding becomes first, thinking they have all the answers.

As for being taught ...

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

If there is a difference, know it is not coming from the Holy Spirit.

There are a couple of Bible scholars who are not prideful at all. Instead they say pride is a sin. I am very particular about who teaches me the Word of God and yes there are many I will not support. That comes with Christian discernment. The Holy Spirit guides and directs me when I read Scripture or a study on scripture from a trusted scholar. I get a bad feeling inside when reading something that does not line up with God's true literal words. You can not say I can't understand the words and I don't trust man to teach me so I will not read them. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by missmuffet

[Daily verse and quote]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

There are a couple of Bible scholars who are not prideful at all. Instead they say pride is a sin. I am very particular about who teaches me the Word of God and yes there are many I will not support. That comes with Christian discernment. The Holy Spirit guides and directs me when I read Scripture or a study on scripture from a trusted scholar. I get a bad feeling inside when reading something that does not line up with God's true literal words. You can not say I can't understand the words and I don't trust man to teach me so I will not read them. 

missmuffit, This is Bob Wille that posts each day under "Daily Verse and Quotes" I remember after I first began to post on Worthy Ministries, and often received replies from you along with "words of wisdom" of your own. I miss interaction with you on Worthy Ministries. Maybe some day that could resume, even on an irregular basis.

[Selah7]

On 4/7/2022 at 9:28 AM, Alive said:

Let's consider a wee experiment. Make believe for a while that you are a new convert to Christ and you have no knowledge of various positions on eschatology. You are literate and pay attention to what you read--especially the bible, because you have come to understand it is God's word for us. You are hungry to learn and to understand. After a while you got around to reading Revelation.

What would you naturally conclude when you took notice of these verses in your reading. These verses included among all of the symbolism that makes your head spin? Remember, you have not been indoctrinated. Perhaps you are Chinese or a Muslim or a farmers child from Nebraska.

You have not yet asked your new pastor to explain.

You are now reading......

:-)

Rev. 1:1 (ESVS)  The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Rev. 1:3 (ESVS) Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

Rev. 2:16 (ESVS) Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev. 3:11 (ESVS) I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.

Rev. 11:14 (ESVS)    The second woe has passed; behold, the third woe is soon to come.

Rev. 22:6 (ESVS)   And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.”

Rev. 22:7 (ESVS)   “And behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

Rev. 22:10 (ESVS)   And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

Rev. 22:12 (ESVS)   “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.

Rev. 22:20 (ESVS)   He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

 

 

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

- Revelation 1:1-2 (KJV)

The word "shortly" is explained in 1:10.

This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, not John's. Jesus showed John the Revelation and instructed him to write it down. This Revelation is for God's servants in this generation. The book of Revelation explains what will happen in the end times so that we can understand it.

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

- Revelation 1:10 (KJV)

Verse 10 is crucial to grasping the meaning of the book of Revelation. The book will not make sense unless you understand this.  From this verse to the end of chapter 22, every verse in Revelation will be examined from the Lord's Day perspective, either looking backwards or forwards. 

"In the Spirit," John has been transported forward in time to the Lord's day. "The Lord's Day" does not refer to Sunday or Saturday.  Paul describes the "Day of the Lord" as "coming as a thief in the night" in I Thessalonians 5:2.  And Paul also makes it plain later in 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3, that Christ's coming would not occur until "after there will be a great falling away first," and "that man of sin, the son of perdition be revealed." Before the 7th trump sounds, Satan must be revealed as the Antichrist.

To recap, the Day of the Lord is the day when our Lord returns.  This is the day when God's wrath is poured forth on His adversaries.  John was transported in the Spirit to the end of this age, just before the Millennium begins. 

Selah.

[Shilohsfoal]

I would ask myself who exactly did Jesus want to understand these things. 

Perhaps Jesus did the apostles a favor by waiting till they all had died before the he gave John this revelation to write. And he waited till John was very old and ready to die before he revealed it to him. 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

On 4/7/2022 at 10:28 AM, Alive said:

Let's consider a wee experiment. Make believe for a while that you are a new convert to Christ and you have no knowledge of various positions on eschatology. You are literate and pay attention to what you read--especially the bible, because you have come to understand it is God's word for us. You are hungry to learn and to understand. After a while you got around to reading Revelation.

What would you naturally conclude when you took notice of these verses in your reading. These verses included among all of the symbolism that makes your head spin? Remember, you have not been indoctrinated. Perhaps you are Chinese or a Muslim or a farmers child from Nebraska.

You have not yet asked your new pastor to explain.

You are now reading......

:-)

Rev. 1:1 (ESVS)  The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

This is telling that it was a time when Jesus Christ did not know these things.

Because God had not revealed them to him yet. 

 Jesus Christ is the first to get to know them because God first revealed them to him and no one else knew them before God made them known to Jesus Christ.

According to the text Jesus made them known to John through his Angel.

The first man to know about them is John.

I take notice that they were not made known to John through the Holy Spirit but through the Angel of the Lord. 

There are no mistake that what was given to John it was given from Jesus Christ through his Angel and it was given to him from God. 

This is what I would understand from careful reading that God had something to give to us because he said "read it allowed", let others know, published it. 

From the above text knowing that John was the first and that he was very old and that he was the youngest "the baby", of the disciples and also from the instructions that the "revelation of Jesus Christ" must be read in the churches and no mention of any other disciples "the original ones", it is reasonable to say that John was the last living disciple.

And we may say that the other disciples died not knowing about those things, or I may put it in other words that the Lord kept them from them, or rather God had  kept them from Jesus Christ.

Without going into saying as to why, the fact remains that God reveal them to Jesus Christ at that time who reveal them (repeat it) to John through his Angel. 

The things that must soon take place. 

Here it asking John to tell the churches that those things they will take place in their life time. 

 

On 4/7/2022 at 10:28 AM, Alive said:

Rev. 1:3 (ESVS) Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

Rev. 2:16 (ESVS) Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev. 3:11 (ESVS) I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.

Rev. 11:14 (ESVS)    The second woe has passed; behold, the third woe is soon to come.

Rev. 22:6 (ESVS)   And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.”

Rev. 22:7 (ESVS)   “And behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

Rev. 22:10 (ESVS)   And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

Rev. 22:12 (ESVS)   “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.

Rev. 22:20 (ESVS)   He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!