Interesting passage gives insights into Predestination and Foreknowledge

[Marathoner]

6 hours ago, Starise said:

The first step toward salvation is realization we are sinners. To feel the real implication of that, the real impact of it is the only way. An aloof individual who has no interest in their sin as something that needs to be confessed will never find salvation. And we might ask, How could a person who has engaged in sin for literally years not see it for what it is? God must bring the realization and the conviction.

Excellently stated. That's what happened when the Lord came to me: He revealed everything I had done, so I was dumbfounded when the Lord said to come to Him. But I'm a terrible, wicked man!

Exactly. His love overwhelmed me. He washes us clean. As terrible and wicked as we are, the Lord calls all men and women to Him. He created us, why would He wish to cast us away? Christ sent His Spirit to the world for this reason, to convict man of his rebelliousness and wickedness, and to testify of Him so we may be saved. 

[Selah7]

Thx @Marathoner  These lyrics say it all! 

Just as I am, without one plea
But that Thy blood was shed for me
And that Thou bid'st me come to Thee
Oh, Lamb of God, I come, I come

Just as I am, though tossed about
With many a conflict, many a doubt
Fighting and fears within without
Oh, Lamb of God, I come, I come

Edited April 27, 2022 by Selah7

[JohnPaul88]

16 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

No, it is based upon the Scriptures itself.   But, many have contorted that meaning and purpose into something that we know could [never] relate to God, since we know God equals LOVE.

 

Personally, whether it's Calvin, Church Fathers, Preachers from the 17th Century to Modern Day, there is enough [truthful Court Documentations/information] that can be found if researched properly to know who I would never accept anything from in relationship to the Word of God.   But, Predestination does exist in Scripture and it relates to Who God is, LOVE.

Thank you for explaining, I just wanted to know.

[Your closest friendnt]

 

You gotta get them lost before you can get them saved.

***

 Just the sound of it rings a warning; an attack on Grace. The language, "you got to get them lost". It does not matter if they are lost or not, "you must make them believe that they are lost". This hardly sounds to be "a message" or "a word from the Holy Spirit".

The sad part is that it was deviced from people who are claiming to have a high standard of ethical integrity, and it make one wonder what else? Would they stopped there? Is there something else? Why would they think that the ends justify the means as to give peace to their conscience, which it is the peace of believing that have done a service to the Gospel. 

Did I say the Gospel? Is this the Gospel, a Gospel that has exalted the self righteousness of man above the righteousness of Jesus Christ to anyone who believes in him.

No wonder that they never asked anyone to look into their faith in Jesus Christ and the Grace that comes with that...they would rather asked someone to look in it's own or their own unrighteousness. To make people feel that are sinners with a connotation of the definition of "sinner" to equal that they are lost, teaching that the wages of sin is death in Jesus Christ as it was to those who violated the law of the Sinai Covenant. And forgetting that Grace has come through Jesus Christ. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[Starise]

I believe I understood the points @Sower was making. I can also see how that statement could be easily misunderstood.

For one thing 'we' aren't doing the saving. I think Sower's point was more trying to emphasize that we need to SEE THAT WE ARE SINNERS. 

While it seems to me that this should be an easy thing to do, in many cases it isn't because the natural man has never known anything else. All of his life has has lived in his sin and probably made excuses for doing it. " I cheated on my taxes because the government squanders money" They feel justified that way. " I am the way I am because................. insert excuse" 

This is the unrepentant soul. The person who always justifies everything they do instead of seeing it as sin. Even if they do something they admit was bad, they don't feel it is really a part of their nature. It was simply the occasional slip up. They won't ever do that again, until they do it again and so the circle continues.

The bible states that all men have a sin nature and only Jesus can save us.

People will try to minimize their actions. " What I do isn't so bad compared to what so and so does". They look at themselves relative to someone else. "At least I haven't killed a man." Moses killed a man and God rescued him for His purposes. Who would think God would use a murderer in such a way as He did Moses? Yet He has done it time and time again with so many men. This is a testament to the character of God.

There is NO sin that can stand between Him and you if you will come to Him.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Starise

[Sower]

17 hours ago, Sower said:

Saved from what?

A forgotten step today among many pastors/denominations/evangelists/mega churches.
 
You gotta get them lost before you can get them saved.

Yes, I know only God can save. But I'm careful not to create another lost pew sitter.
Very important point Starise, and thanks for making it aware to viewers/seekers.

 

              Just for your own information, Your Closest Friendnt,
"You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"  is a quote by (D.L.) Moody, the founder of Moody Bible Institute and it's original ministries.

The post I made was concerning sharing the gospel to the lost, not believers. Can't figure how you misunderstood. I do not witness the gospel to born again believers who have "already" received the amazing  GRACE  of God. I fellowship with them.

Your closest friendnt said; quote
"You gotta get them lost before you can get them saved"
***
Just the sound of it rings a warning; an attack on Grace. The language, "you got to get them lost". It does not matter if they are lost or not, "you must make them believe that they are lost". This hardly sounds to be "a message" or "a word from the Holy Spirit".

The sad part is that it was deviced from people who are claiming to have a high standard of ethical integrity, and it make one wonder what else? Would they stopped there? Is there something else? Why would they think that the ends justify the means as to give peace to their conscience, which it is the peace of believing that have done a service to the Gospel. 

Did I say the Gospel? Is this the Gospel, a Gospel that has exalted the self righteousness of man above the righteousness of Jesus Christ to anyone who believes in him.

No wonder that they never asked anyone to look into their faith in Jesus Christ and the Grace that comes with that...they would rather asked someone to look in it's own or their own unrighteousness. To make people feel that are sinners with a connotation of the definition of "sinner" to equal that they are lost, teaching that the wages of sin is death in Jesus Christ as it was to those who violated the law of the Sinai Covenant. And forgetting that Grace has come through Jesus Christ"

Unbelievable.
I do not know how to reply to your post. As a member since 09, I have never been raked over the coals as you have done in your reply. And I honestly have no idea exactly what you are even talking about.

If you have ever witnessed to the lost and shared enough scripture you would know the importance God makes of understanding we are sinners, and have a sin debt, and we cannot pay it, and eternal separation from God, death, is payment. I always try to give a person the 'bad news' first. Most everybody understands they commit sin, and I show them the eternal consequences. The wages of sin is death.
But;
I then give them the scriptures that show how Jesus gave his life, the perfect sacrifice, to pay our sin debt. Salvation. That it was by grace, the free gift without working for it, through the faith in believing in Jesus the Christ.
This is the good news.

I never push for a decision but allow the spirit do the convicting. I do not want to be responsible for creating a lost pew sitter by giving them a 'special prayer' they can say to be saved without repenting, changing their thinking.
https://unsavedbeliever.net/index.php/how-many-are-not-saved/

This is why I replied/complimented Starise on his post. He gets it!

 

So you would be familiar with the Roman Road scripture below.
Notice God's importance in our understanding that we are sinners.                            

The Roman Road to salvation.
Romans
3,23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

3,10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

6, 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5, 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

10, 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

10, 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

5, 1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

8, 1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:38-39,  (Nothing can separate us from the love of God.)

I would have welcomed YOUR methods and experiences when you are out there sharing the 'Good News' with the lost, for us to learn and benefit from your own experiences.

I enjoy sharing the good news to those who have not heard it. For me it is actually fun. I have been blessed by God with circumstances that brings me in contact daily with strangers and a mission field at my own shop door.  Why not tell us how you share the gospel? That would edify. Share experiences. Be a blessing.

[Your closest friendnt]

23 hours ago, Sower said:

 

              Just for your own information, Your Closest Friendnt,
"You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"  is a quote by (D.L.) Moody, the founder of Moody Bible Institute and it's original ministries.

The post I made was concerning sharing the gospel to the lost, not believers. Can't figure how you misunderstood. I do not witness the gospel to born again believers who have "already" received the amazing  GRACE  of God. I fellowship with them.

Your closest friendnt said; quote
"You gotta get them lost before you can get them saved"
***
Just the sound of it rings a warning; an attack on Grace. The language, "you got to get them lost". It does not matter if they are lost or not, "you must make them believe that they are lost". This hardly sounds to be "a message" or "a word from the Holy Spirit".

The sad part is that it was deviced from people who are claiming to have a high standard of ethical integrity, and it make one wonder what else? Would they stopped there? Is there something else? Why would they think that the ends justify the means as to give peace to their conscience, which it is the peace of believing that have done a service to the Gospel. 

Did I say the Gospel? Is this the Gospel, a Gospel that has exalted the self righteousness of man above the righteousness of Jesus Christ to anyone who believes in him.

No wonder that they never asked anyone to look into their faith in Jesus Christ and the Grace that comes with that...they would rather asked someone to look in it's own or their own unrighteousness. To make people feel that are sinners with a connotation of the definition of "sinner" to equal that they are lost, teaching that the wages of sin is death in Jesus Christ as it was to those who violated the law of the Sinai Covenant. And forgetting that Grace has come through Jesus Christ"

Unbelievable.
I do not know how to reply to your post. As a member since 09, I have never been raked over the coals as you have done in your reply. And I honestly have no idea exactly what you are even talking about.

If you have ever witnessed to the lost and shared enough scripture you would know the importance God makes of understanding we are sinners, and have a sin debt, and we cannot pay it, and eternal separation from God, death, is payment. I always try to give a person the 'bad news' first. Most everybody understands they commit sin, and I show them the eternal consequences. The wages of sin is death.
But;
I then give them the scriptures that show how Jesus gave his life, the perfect sacrifice, to pay our sin debt. Salvation. That it was by grace, the free gift without working for it, through the faith in believing in Jesus the Christ.
This is the good news.

I never push for a decision but allow the spirit do the convicting. I do not want to be responsible for creating a lost pew sitter by giving them a 'special prayer' they can say to be saved without repenting, changing their thinking.
https://unsavedbeliever.net/index.php/how-many-are-not-saved/

This is why I replied/complimented Starise on his post. He gets it!

 

So you would be familiar with the Roman Road scripture below.
Notice God's importance in our understanding that we are sinners.                            

The Roman Road to salvation.
Romans
3,23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

3,10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

6, 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5, 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

10, 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

10, 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

5, 1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

8, 1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:38-39,  (Nothing can separate us from the love of God.)

I would have welcomed YOUR methods and experiences when you are out there sharing the 'Good News' with the lost, for us to learn and benefit from your own experiences.

I enjoy sharing the good news to those who have not heard it. For me it is actually fun. I have been blessed by God with circumstances that brings me in contact daily with strangers and a mission field at my own shop door.  Why not tell us how you share the gospel? That would edify. Share experiences. Be a blessing.

My concern is this statement 

You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"  

And this is why I said that this is a message against and contrary to the truth. 

When the speaker says lost, he wants the people to think that they are lost, as in lost in Hell. 

Which it is not truth for most of the people. 

As the slogan says, " you've got to make people lost, to convince them that they are lost in Hell...

They do not preach the truth, which is found in numerous scriptures. 

They do not make the distinction between our own individual righteousness which it will never change our position from earthly to Heavenly. 

Because for anyone to be in the Heavenly one which is Jesus Christ, he needs to believe in Jesus Christ, to believe in God alone will no do, we need Jesus Christ who died for our sins. We need to be robbed with the gift of his righteousness, which we recieved when we first believe.  

We are in Jesus Christ and we are under his blood, and Jesus Christ is Heavenly he was ascended unto Heaven and he is with God, as the Judge of all people of the world.  Something no everyone understands, how he can be the Judge of all the people of the world, when he became the Judge of all two thousand years ago. 

We are in Christ according to our faith, because we believe in him, that he died to set us free from our sins. 

This is because of Jesus Christ,  because of him we are free from our sins. 

We do not die in our sins. 

It is wrong to preached the Gospel to people who are born from Christian parents and grew up in Christian communities and have been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. It is wrong to treat them as unbelievers as people who are Hell bound when they are not. 

The Gospel is very clear, that a believer in Jesus Christ when he sins is not Lost or Hell Bound. Death cannot come to him, because he is free from his sins. 

He is Heavenly bound because of his faith in Jesus Christ.  

He is robbed and remain robbed with Jesus Christ righteousness. Whether he sins or not. 

Paul Preached the Gospel to people born to Gentiles Idolaters parents, who grew up in Gentile communities. 

With the exception of the Jews.  

It is not truth to tell believers who love the world that they are lost in Hell, Jesus Christ is not Blessing this statement. 

As a matter of fact the Devil has many reasons to be happy about that statement.  

The Prodigal son got lost in life, but he was still the son...be never stopped being the son, in success or failure in life he was and is always the Son. 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[Sower]

4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

My concern is this statement 

You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"  

And this is why I said that this is a message against and contrary to the truth. 

When the speaker says lost, he wants the people to think that they are lost, as in lost in Hell. 

Which it is not truth for most of the people. 

As the slogan says, " you've got to make people lost, to convince them that they are lost in Hell...

They do not preach the truth, which is found in numerous scriptures. 

They do not make the distinction between our own individual righteousness which it will never change our position from earthly to Heavenly. 

Because for anyone to be in the Heavenly one which is Jesus Christ, he needs to believe in Jesus Christ, to believe in God alone will no do, we need Jesus Christ who died for our sins. We need to be robbed with the gift of his righteousness, which we recieved when we first believe.  

We are in Jesus Christ and we are under his blood, and Jesus Christ is Heavenly he was ascended unto Heaven and he is with God, as the Judge of all people of the world.  Something no everyone understands, how he can be the Judge of all the people of the world, when he became the Judge of all two thousand years ago. 

We are in Christ according to our faith, because we believe in him, that he died to set us free from our sins. 

This is because of Jesus Christ,  because of him we are free from our sins. 

We do not die in our sins. 

It is wrong to preached the Gospel to people who are born from Christian parents and grew up in Christian communities and have been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. It is wrong to treat them as unbelievers as people who are Hell bound when they are not. 

The Gospel is very clear, that a believer in Jesus Christ when he sins is not Lost or Hell Bound. Death cannot come to him, because he is free from his sins. 

He is Heavenly bound because of his faith in Jesus Christ.  

He is robbed and remain robbed with Jesus Christ righteousness. Whether he sins or not. 

Paul Preached the Gospel to people born to Gentiles Idolaters parents, who grew up in Gentile communities. 

With the exception of the Jews.  

It is not truth to tell believers who love the world that they are lost in Hell, Jesus Christ is not Blessing this statement. 

As a matter of fact the Devil has many reasons to be happy about that statement.  

The Prodigal son got lost in life, but he was still the son...be never stopped being the son, in success or failure in life he was and is always the Son. 

 

 

My concern is this statement 

You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"  

And this is why I said that this is a message against and contrary to the truth. 

When the speaker says lost, he wants the people to think that they are lost, as in lost in Hell. 

Assuming the"speaker" you're referring to is myself, then to answer your question, Yes, just like your bible and mine says. If we are not born again and as such a child of God, then we are a child of our father the devil.

Which it is not truth for most of the people

Wrong, YCF. Scripture clearly indicates that many are called but few are chosen.
"Those who try to come without the covering of the blood of Christ for their sins are inadequately clothed and will be sent into “outer darkness,” (v. 13) i.e., hell.
I will repeat again, I do not witness to born again believers to get lost to get saved. That makes no sense. You continue to misrepresent my quote above You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"  that originated by DL Moody.
 

As the slogan says, " you've got to make people lost, to convince them that they are lost in Hell...

They do not preach the truth, which is found in numerous scriptures. 

The scripture clearly states the wages of sin is death!
 

It is wrong to preached the Gospel to people who are born from Christian parents and grew up in Christian communities and have been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. It is wrong to treat them as unbelievers as people who are Hell bound when they are not. 

None of what you posted above ever saved anyone, no matter where or to whom they were born, nor being baptized. Baptism is an outward proclaiming an inward belief. I was baptized as an infant in the catholic church. Meant absolutely nothing other getting my diapers wet. I was baptized when I was born again 30+ yrs later to joyfully proclaim my new identity as a child of God. Are you catholic? Do you believe baptism saves, and parentage, and raised in Christian communities?

The Gospel is very clear, that a believer in Jesus Christ when he sins is not Lost or Hell Bound. Death cannot come to him, because he is free from his sins. 

He is Heavenly bound because of his faith in Jesus Christ.  

He is robbed and remain robbed with Jesus Christ righteousness. Whether he sins or not. 

  For sure....

It is not truth to tell believers who love the world that they are lost in Hell, Jesus Christ is not Blessing this statement. 

As a matter of fact the Devil has many reasons to be happy about that statement.  

I do not believe that a born again believer can be unborn, or lost. I have never said that, and that must be your confusion.
And again,      "You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"
The purpose of me stating that is to make them, referring to an unbelieving LOST non Christian person, aware that as SCRIPTURE states, if they are not saved, born again, then they are LOST. It is important they know just what they need to be saved for, (which is their sin debt).
The last time I'm going to explain this to you, I DO NOT WITNESS THE GOSPEL TO BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS TO GET THEM SAVED or LOST!!!
I have fellowship with my brothers and sisters in Christ. And I don't get anybody lost, nor COULD I get anybody lost or saved. I can only share the good news and then pray for them. But the full gospel, the GOOD news, is we all have sinned, there is none righteous, and yet while we were still  sinners Jesus died for the payment for our sin debt with His blood sacrifice!
And He said, It is Finished!     

Are you catholic, YCF ?
 

 

 

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

38 minutes ago, Sower said:

 

My concern is this statement 

You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"  

And this is why I said that this is a message against and contrary to the truth. 

When the speaker says lost, he wants the people to think that they are lost, as in lost in Hell. 

Assuming the"speaker" you're referring to is myself, then to answer your question, Yes, just like your bible and mine says. If we are not born again and as such a child of God, then we are a child of our father the devil.

Which it is not truth for most of the people

Wrong, YCF. Scripture clearly indicates that many are called but few are chosen.
"Those who try to come without the covering of the blood of Christ for their sins are inadequately clothed and will be sent into “outer darkness,” (v. 13) i.e., hell.
I will repeat again, I do not witness to born again believers to get lost to get saved. That makes no sense. You continue to misrepresent my quote above You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"  that originated by DL Moody.
 

As the slogan says, " you've got to make people lost, to convince them that they are lost in Hell...

They do not preach the truth, which is found in numerous scriptures. 

The scripture clearly states the wages of sin is death!
 

It is wrong to preached the Gospel to people who are born from Christian parents and grew up in Christian communities and have been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. It is wrong to treat them as unbelievers as people who are Hell bound when they are not. 

None of what you posted above ever saved anyone, no matter where or to whom they were born, nor being baptized. Baptism is an outward proclaiming an inward belief. I was baptized as an infant in the catholic church. Meant absolutely nothing other getting my diapers wet. I was baptized when I was born again 30+ yrs later to joyfully proclaim my new identity as a child of God. Are you catholic? Do you believe baptism saves, and parentage, and raised in Christian communities?

The Gospel is very clear, that a believer in Jesus Christ when he sins is not Lost or Hell Bound. Death cannot come to him, because he is free from his sins. 

He is Heavenly bound because of his faith in Jesus Christ.  

He is robbed and remain robbed with Jesus Christ righteousness. Whether he sins or not. 

  For sure....

It is not truth to tell believers who love the world that they are lost in Hell, Jesus Christ is not Blessing this statement. 

As a matter of fact the Devil has many reasons to be happy about that statement.  

I do not believe that a born again believer can be unborn, or lost. I have never said that, and that must be your confusion.
And again,      "You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"
The purpose of me stating that is to make them, referring to an unbelieving LOST non Christian person, aware that as SCRIPTURE states, if they are not saved, born again, then they are LOST. It is important they know just what they need to be saved for, (which is their sin debt).
The last time I'm going to explain this to you, I DO NOT WITNESS THE GOSPEL TO BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS TO GET THEM SAVED or LOST!!!
I have fellowship with my brothers and sisters in Christ. And I don't get anybody lost, nor COULD I get anybody lost or saved. I can only share the good news and then pray for them. But the full gospel, the GOOD news, is we all have sinned, there is none righteous, and yet while we were still  sinners Jesus died for the payment for our sin debt with His blood sacrifice!
And He said, It is Finished!     

Are you catholic, YCF ?
 

 

 

 

 

Greetings Sower,  I did not say that for you personally, please remember that. It is not about you. I raised my concern about that statement which it is a very serious concern, because it makes believers think that they may or are on the way to Hell out of confusion.

The Grace of God that has come in the world it does not preach that a believers sins can be used to condemn him to Hell. The preacher or the evangelist if he says that he is Hell bound because he is in sin. This is not the truth, because he is not. Because a  believer is in double righteousness, one is his own and the other is Jesus Christ righteousness.  If his own righteousness as a believer fails, the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ on him it does not. 

Jesus has forgiven his sins and he can do that because his sins were imputed to him when he died on the Cross.  

So if a believer sins and he died in his sins he is not lost to Hell because he is under Grace. He is under the Atonement of the blood of the Lamb of God, which is Jesus Christ.  

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Sower said:

 

My concern is this statement 

You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"  

And this is why I said that this is a message against and contrary to the truth. 

When the speaker says lost, he wants the people to think that they are lost, as in lost in Hell. 

Assuming the"speaker" you're referring to is myself, then to answer your question, Yes, just like your bible and mine says. If we are not born again and as such a child of God, then we are a child of our father the devil.

Which it is not truth for most of the people

Wrong, YCF. Scripture clearly indicates that many are called but few are chosen.
"Those who try to come without the covering of the blood of Christ for their sins are inadequately clothed and will be sent into “outer darkness,” (v. 13) i.e., hell.
I will repeat again, I do not witness to born again believers to get lost to get saved. That makes no sense. You continue to misrepresent my quote above You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"  that originated by DL Moody.
 

As the slogan says, " you've got to make people lost, to convince them that they are lost in Hell...

They do not preach the truth, which is found in numerous scriptures. 

The scripture clearly states the wages of sin is death!
 

It is wrong to preached the Gospel to people who are born from Christian parents and grew up in Christian communities and have been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. It is wrong to treat them as unbelievers as people who are Hell bound when they are not. 

None of what you posted above ever saved anyone, no matter where or to whom they were born, nor being baptized. Baptism is an outward proclaiming an inward belief. I was baptized as an infant in the catholic church. Meant absolutely nothing other getting my diapers wet. I was baptized when I was born again 30+ yrs later to joyfully proclaim my new identity as a child of God. Are you catholic? Do you believe baptism saves, and parentage, and raised in Christian communities?

The Gospel is very clear, that a believer in Jesus Christ when he sins is not Lost or Hell Bound. Death cannot come to him, because he is free from his sins. 

He is Heavenly bound because of his faith in Jesus Christ.  

He is robbed and remain robbed with Jesus Christ righteousness. Whether he sins or not. 

  For sure....

It is not truth to tell believers who love the world that they are lost in Hell, Jesus Christ is not Blessing this statement. 

As a matter of fact the Devil has many reasons to be happy about that statement.  

I do not believe that a born again believer can be unborn, or lost. I have never said that, and that must be your confusion.
And again,      "You’ve got to get people lost before you can get them saved"
The purpose of me stating that is to make them, referring to an unbelieving LOST non Christian person, aware that as SCRIPTURE states, if they are not saved, born again, then they are LOST. It is important they know just what they need to be saved for, (which is their sin debt).
The last time I'm going to explain this to you, I DO NOT WITNESS THE GOSPEL TO BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS TO GET THEM SAVED or LOST!!!
I have fellowship with my brothers and sisters in Christ. And I don't get anybody lost, nor COULD I get anybody lost or saved. I can only share the good news and then pray for them. But the full gospel, the GOOD news, is we all have sinned, there is none righteous, and yet while we were still  sinners Jesus died for the payment for our sin debt with His blood sacrifice!
And He said, It is Finished!     

Are you catholic, YCF ?
 

 

 

 

 

Greetings Sower,  I did not say that for you personally, please remember that. It is not about you. I raised my concern about that statement which it is a very serious concern, because it makes believers think that they may or are on the way to Hell out of confusion.

The Grace of God that has come in the world it does not preach that a believers sins can be used to condemn him to Hell. The preacher or the evangelist if he says that he is Hell bound because he is in sin. This is not the truth, because he is not. Because a  believer is in double righteousness, one is his own and the other is Jesus Christ righteousness.  If his own righteousness as a believer fails, the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ on him it does not. 

Jesus has forgiven his sins and he can do that because his sins were imputed to him when he died on the Cross.  

So if a believer sins and he died in his sins he is not lost to Hell because he is under Grace. He is under the Atonement of the blood of the Lamb of God, which is Jesus Christ.  

So to establish someone in his sin and say that he is lost without taking the next step to establish him out of the Atonement of the blood of Jesus Christ it is wrong, because a believer in Jesus Christ even thought in Sin he is not Hell bound because he is under the  Atonement of the Lamb of God who took away his sins with his death on the Cross.  

Is this Catholic teaching? No it is not 

Then I am not a Catholic.

Why you even ask this question, because I was not born in a Catholic family and I have never been a Catholic.  Why did you asked and repeat this question, is there something that I said? 

I am wondering about that. 

There is more for another time. Thank you for responding. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Your closest friendnt