What if the true nature of God will surprise us?

[B-B]

1 minute ago, Amigo42 said:

Well, as a Christian, I of course believe Jesus is the way.

Thanks for your response 😊

...If I may probe further, what does it mean to you, when Scripture tells us that "without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins"? 

Hebrews 9:22

[Amigo42]

5 minutes ago, B-B said:

Thanks for responding 😊

How, in your opinion, can a person become righteous/be made righteous, before God?

 

I'd say through allowing the Spirit of God to renew their souls and minds in Him.  However, I also believe that God looks on the heart though man looks on the outward appearance.  I don't know if I'd say that people are saved though yes they are, but I like to think of it as going home.  Earth is not our home for any of us.  So, we will all go home at some point.  Have you ever heard of Lorna Byrne?  She's an Irish Catholic woman who claims to have seen and continues to see and speak to angels daily just like she see people.  Some of her claimed conversations with the angels and God are quite interesting, though I wouldn't put too much stock in any humans.  Nonetheless, at least some of what she says seems to be true in terms of what I've learned and read from other "witnesses."  Again, don't put too much trust in any person, but it is interesting to hear others' perspectives.  

[B-B]

2 minutes ago, Amigo42 said:

I'd say through allowing the Spirit of God to renew their souls and minds in Him. 

Well...This process that you describe above of 'renewal' is more akin to being sanctified, being set apart.

Being made righteous, however, is different I'm afraid.

"just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

Galatians 3:6

[Amigo42]

11 minutes ago, Jayne said:

 

Many times Paul calls his writings from God, God's commands and ergo divine.  How could he not believe this inspiration from God was divine?

Amigo - I have to ask you - are you a follower of Jesus Christ?  Are you a Christian?

If you are, why do you discredit the Bible?

A

 

Hi Jayne, thank you.  I most certainly am a Christian and follower of Jesus.  I've been a born again Christian almost 30 years now.  I am most certainly not trying to discredit the Bible.  I love the Bible myself and a few years ago I may have responded like you.  I'm actually trying to strengthen Christians when and if their faith comes under attack.  It's good to be realistic and have a common sense perspective instead of too dogmatic of an approach.  If people are too dogmatic in their beliefs, it can be hard to know how to respond when some new conflict comes their way.  So, I just like to encourage people to see beyond the details and focus on the broad scope of the message of Jesus and of the Bible.  So many Christians have fallen away because they couldn't handle basic dissonance within themselves and their beliefs.  Most of you may not have that problem, but some young people who've gone through higher education and even Bible school have nearly lost their faith because they came in with too strict of an approach.  Anyway, I desire for people to serve God and be strong in what they believe, but also have a common sense approach to the Bible.  God gave us all common sense, and if something doesn't make sense, it's probably because it incorrect theologically.

[Amigo42]

4 minutes ago, Heaven_Bound said:

Exodus:

4 So Moses wrote down all the words of ADONAI, then rose up early in the morning, and built an altar below the mountain, along with twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

Deuteronomy

9 Moses wrote down this Torah and gave it to the kohanim, the sons of Levi who carry the Ark of the Covenant of ADONAI, and to all the elders of Israel.

 

 

Deuteronomy 31:24

And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,

 

 

 

Again, I love the Bible, but what does it really mean here by "Moses wrote"?  When was this written, and what was their intention?  Let me give an example.  Here in America when we say the "President's new executive order says...etc."  Are we saying the President himself wrote and formulated the order or did he just agree to it and sign in?  Of course, he didn't write it.  He provided general outlines, but various teams in the government and executive branch actually formulated it.

[ayin jade]

2 hours ago, Amigo42 said:

 

So, here's the point that I'm making, and this kind of highlights that.  Sometimes tradition and religion can get in the way of common sense.  God gave all humans common sense, and to me my common sense tells me that a God of love is fair and just and wouldn't punish people for something they never even had the chance to learn simply because of where they happened to be born.  "You were born in North Korea or another communist country?  Well, too bad and too sad for you.  The gates of pearls are closed for you. keep walking down that fiery tunnel."  Sorry for the satire, but this just doesn't sound like the God that Jesus described.  

Then you disagree with the bible.

 

[Selah7]

Hey Amigo.  I believe you should abandon the "what ifs," as there are none in God's Word. Stop theorizing and speculating and trying to confuse individuals who are still infants and aren't well-versed in the Bible. Our Father does not create confusion.   … selah 

[Jayne]

55 minutes ago, Amigo42 said:

I most certainly am a Christian and follower of Jesus.  I've been a born again Christian almost 30 years now.  I am most certainly not trying to discredit the Bible.  I love the Bible myself and a few years ago I may have responded like you.  I'm actually trying to strengthen Christians when and if their faith comes under attack.  It's good to be realistic and have a common sense perspective instead of too dogmatic of an approach.  If people are too dogmatic in their beliefs, it can be hard to know how to respond when some new conflict comes their way.  So, I just like to encourage people to see beyond the details and focus on the broad scope of the message of Jesus and of the Bible.  So many Christians have fallen away because they couldn't handle basic dissonance within themselves and their beliefs.  Most of you may not have that problem, but some young people who've gone through higher education and even Bible school have nearly lost their faith because they came in with too strict of an approach.  Anyway, I desire for people to serve God and be strong in what they believe, but also have a common sense approach to the Bible.  God gave us all common sense, and if something doesn't make sense, it's probably because it incorrect theologically.

I'm very glad to hear that you are a Christian.  I just wished that you believed that what God said in his Word - he meant and is true.  And you don't.  That breaks my heart.

Am I dogmatic?  Yes.  I believe that the Bible is absolutely true.  From cover to cover.  Could there be the occassional copyist error in making translations?  Yes.  But it does not make the message of the Bible in error.

And dissonance as discouragement?

Absolutely not!  Anyone who allows a "well-informed atheist" to show a "contradiction" and allow that dissonance - be it cognitive, emotional, or spiritual - to cause them to not believe anymore, well, they never truly believed in the first place.

I have been reading/teaching the Bible for 40 of my 60 years.  I have come across scores of people - both online and in person - who bring nothing BUT seeming dissonance to the table.  They have never discouraged me.

The Bible says that it is God's divine and actual words.  The Bible says in both the Old and New Testaments that Moses wrote Genesis through Deuteronomy and that Jonah and the whale were real.

The Bible is either telling the truth about that ........ or it's lying.

There is only two choices.  

 

[OneLight]

14 minutes ago, Amigo42 said:

There might be some Bibles in North Korea, but God is not going to judge someone who never learned of him in the same way that he would for someone say in America who has access to Bibles freely.

Romans 1:18-21 tells us that we can know God through His creation.  I am sure if someone in the farthest areas of the world, who are isolated from the rest of the world, wants to know God, He will present Himself to them.  They may not have a bible, but they will know God is real.

[ayin jade]

1 hour ago, Amigo42 said:

 

I'd say through allowing the Spirit of God to renew their souls and minds in Him.  However, I also believe that God looks on the heart though man looks on the outward appearance.  I don't know if I'd say that people are saved though yes they are, but I like to think of it as going home.  Earth is not our home for any of us.  So, we will all go home at some point.  Have you ever heard of Lorna Byrne?  She's an Irish Catholic woman who claims to have seen and continues to see and speak to angels daily just like she see people.  Some of her claimed conversations with the angels and God are quite interesting, though I wouldn't put too much stock in any humans.  Nonetheless, at least some of what she says seems to be true in terms of what I've learned and read from other "witnesses."  Again, don't put too much trust in any person, but it is interesting to hear others' perspectives.  

Byrne states that all religions have access to God, and no person should think theirs better than the others

Not scriptural at all.