Who is Resurrected, and When?

[Your closest friendnt]

5 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

We also see that there will be a flare-up of the sun, where its light is "seven time brighter" and the light of the moon will seem like the light of the sun!

I believe this will be a TEMPORARY flare-up, and then it "DARKENS" back to normal! Just know that the sun will last FOREVER, as will the light of the moon!

And in regards to "Zechariah or anyone else," have you thought about their presence when the Resurrection takes place?

Shalom, Retrobyter.

I am not a scientist but I got to understand all the trouble we have for the earth being warmer a degree more or less....and it can be a lot of big trouble if the Sun gets to that..because that will greatly affect the temperature of the earth with devastating results...I do not know if we can survive something Life that...and how long would that last and how that it would affect the turns of the earth around it self, the tilt of the earth...and the orbit of the earth and the moon and the other planets that can be affected by the change in the Sun...again science was not my subject and that time 60 years ago in High school I do not remember that they taught us a lot of science in schools without labs...just from a text book...outdated for our times...I would have loved the subject if I was going to school in the present time and hear in North America. 

[truth7t7]

34 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Diaste.

Well, the simple truth is that His parable about the King coming and setting up His Kingdom and rewarding His servants for wise use of His talents culminated in their receiving the RULERSHIP over CITIES! Some who did well, earned the right to rule over 10 cities (towns). Others, earned the right to rule over 5 cities.

This is a MUCH smaller jurisdiction than a whole country or even a state or province! It is barely what we notice as a township, often not even a COUNTY! If people are reigning over these small areas, how many such areas are there IN THE WORLD?!

My point is this: He's going to need "every hand on deck!" We don't necessarily call them "kings" if they rule over such a small area, but they ARE the kings that the Messiah puts in place during the Millennium. So, He will be the World Emperor (the King of kings), but underneath His authority will be whole hierarchies of rulers to judge the people of earth justly and equitably! These subordinate rulers, whether they are called "governors" or "mayors" or whatever, will consist of those who belong to the Messiah when He comes! There are over 108,000 cities in the United States alone! 

Those who were martyred in your version of the Great Tribulation, won't cut it! There won't be enough to do the job!

I won't repeat the whole thing, but go back and re-read Exodus 18, regarding the visit of Moses' father-in-law, Jethro. Through Jethro's leadership, Moses put in place ...

"rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens." - Exodus 18:25.

Sounds like a Tim LA Haye Sci-Fi Left Behind Sequel "The Millennium" coming to a theater near you soon

[truth7t7]

33 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

We also see that there will be a flare-up of the sun, where its light is "seven time brighter" and the light of the moon will seem like the light of the sun!

I believe this will be a TEMPORARY flare-up, and then it "DARKENS" back to normal! Just know that the sun will last FOREVER, as will the light of the moon!

And in regards to "Zechariah or anyone else," have you thought about their presence when the Resurrection takes place?

The sun shining 7 times brighter is the reflection of the Lord's light off the sun "Bright" at his "Second Coming"

Acts 26:13KJV

13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

2 Thessalonians 2:8KJV

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Edited February 24, 2023 by truth7t7

[Your closest friendnt]

28 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

We also see that there will be a flare-up of the sun, where its light is "seven time brighter" and the light of the moon will seem like the light of the sun!

I believe this will be a TEMPORARY flare-up, and then it "DARKENS" back to normal! Just know that the sun will last FOREVER, as will the light of the moon!

And in regards to "Zechariah or anyone else," have you thought about their presence when the Resurrection takes place?

Shalom, Retrobyter. 

I see the second part in your post about "Zacharias or anyone else " and I would like to participate in that discussion with you...I am not ignoring it even though I think that we have different understandings and that it does not bothering me and what I am going to say I will give the reason why and scriptural support...that I can do as briefly as possible...

 

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Diaste.

Well, the simple truth is that His parable about the King coming and setting up His Kingdom and rewarding His servants for wise use of His talents culminated in their receiving the RULERSHIP over CITIES! Some who did well, earned the right to rule over 10 cities (towns). Others, earned the right to rule over 5 cities.

I see.

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

This is a MUCH smaller jurisdiction than a whole country or even a state or province! It is barely what we notice as a township, often not even a COUNTY! If people are reigning over these small areas, how many such areas are there IN THE WORLD?!

My point is this: He's going to need "every hand on deck!" We don't necessarily call them "kings" if they rule over such a small area, but they ARE the kings that the Messiah puts in place during the Millennium. So, He will be the World Emperor (the King of kings), but underneath His authority will be whole hierarchies of rulers to judge the people of earth justly and equitably! These subordinate rulers, whether they are called "governors" or "mayors" or whatever, will consist of those who belong to the Messiah when He comes! There are over 108,000 cities in the United States alone! 

I don't disagree. From a current perspective your arguments make total sense.

I would think at that time, when the Kingdom exists, we don't know how many people or towns will be left. Lots of passages about the destruction of the cities at the end. 

In Revelation the mountains are gone. In Rev 16 all the cities of the nations fell. At Armageddon so many die the blood runs like a river for 200 miles. 

Jesus does need 'all hands on deck'. Impossible to know with any certainty how many that is.  

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Those who were martyred in your version of the Great Tribulation, won't cut it! There won't be enough to do the job!

I suppose you may be right, but there's no evidence to support how many people are needed nor how many cities and towns are left. 

In Rev 7 it's, 'a great multitude no man could count'. That seems like a lot to me. I think there will be plenty of people. Jesus isn't dropping the ball on this. 

With all the cities destroyed and the population reduced in vast numbers, billions, there will be as many as needed for the required administration.

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I won't repeat the whole thing, but go back and re-read Exodus 18, regarding the visit of Moses' father-in-law, Jethro. Through Jethro's leadership, Moses put in place ...

"rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens." - Exodus 18:25.

It's a good plan. 

[truth7t7]

15 minutes ago, Diaste said:

With all the cities destroyed and the population reduced in vast numbers, billions, there will be as many as needed for the required administration.

It's a good plan. 

Big Smiles!

[Diaste]

9 hours ago, Uriah said:

Exactly, we weren't talking ab0ut them. It was about the judging of the resurrected people as is the title of this thread and when that would be. The point about John is that he would not be resurrected at that time according to our exchange.

That's a scenario interjected into the discussion that may or may not be relevant.

It doesn't prove Who is Resurrected and When? nor does it disprove. 

I don't see where  those from out from within GT and those who were martyred and overcame the beast as excluding any other person or group from participation in the primary resurrection; or more precisely, excluding any other person or group from being taken at the same time for a special purpose to fulfill a promise; like the promise in Matt 19.

The ones described as being participants in the primary resurrection are the ones who came to life and reigned with Jesus. 

These are described as having particular characteristics and attributes, part of which can only come about if the beast exists in proximity in time and space to those resurrected.

Those facts do not cancel or remove a promise made to others; like the one Jesus made when He said the one who followed Him will judge the 12 tribes. 

A promise was made to the thief on the cross. Many rose from the graves and appeared to many people. The 1st resurrection doesn't exclude these. 

The primary resurrection, since it's the chief or important, and those in it live and reign with Christ, would have to include those of the promise in Matt 19. 

 

 

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

And 1 Cor 15:23 is also "precisely defined" as "those who belong to Him".  And you can't prove that the phrase leaves out ANY saved person.  That is just pure speculation, or worse, just an attempt to defend your 'version' of Rev 20, to fit your theories, or whoever's theory you have accepted.

Well....WHO are those 'who belong to Him'? From WHERE did the come? WHAT did they do? Are those questions answered like they are in Rev 7 about the group standing around the throne? 

WHO are they in Rev 7, "These are they which came out of great tribulation,"

WHERE did they come from in Rev 7, "out of great tribulation,"

WHAT did they do in Rev 7, "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb"

In contrast none of the above is answered in 1 Cor 15 about 'those who belong to Him. So it is not precisely defined, it's generally defined.

In fact, the ones in Rev 7:14 are the ones who belong to Him.

And you're correct, I can't prove it 'leaves out' anyone from 1 Cor 15:23 because it's a general statement and it's trying to prove a negative, which is not possible. I can only go with who is included and I know for a fact it's those from GT and who faced the beast that live a reign with Christ. I have positive evidence of that.

 

19 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

You CAN'T define "those who belong to Him" any more precisely.  Why do you resist this truth?

Then post the evidence of who makes up the group, 'those who belong to Him'. 

 

19 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Until you can prove that not all believers are included in that phrase, you have no case.

Can't prove a negative. I can't prove a single thing when there is no evidence. 

Post the evidence like I do.

 

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

This is exactly what you are doing  Making claims without ANY evidence.  

 

And I'm posting the evidence. Again and again.

The Rev 7:14 group, and those in Rev 20:4 have a list of attributes defining where they came from and what they did.

In contrast 1 Cor 15:23 is a general statement that lists no characteristics of the group 'those who belong to Him'. If there are attributes, please post them.

I don't see a description of attributes similar to: out from within GT, washing their robes, beheaded, refusing the mark, refusing to worship the beast and the image, anywhere in all of 1 Cor 15. 

I do see you claiming without any textual evidence they are 'all from all time'. Where is that written again?

Since 1 Cor 15, 1 Thess 4, 1 Thess 5, Matt 24, and 2 Thess 2 are all about the gathering and resurrection of Rev 7 and Rev 20, the Gospel and epistle passages speak to the group described in the Revelation. 

The only description we see is what I have posted:

These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb

them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which

had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,

neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; 

21 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 prove my claim to be wrong.  

As I said before, it's not up to me to prove anything you say or believe as incorrect. I'm stating my case. You state yours.

"I said it, prove me wrong." does prove you have no positive support but would rather shift the burden of proof to others. This is not discussion worthy behavior.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Diaste

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Long post just to admit that you have no evidence for your claims.  Thanks.

Wow. Okay....