The Correct Chronology of Revelation Chapters 6 and 7

[The Light]

16 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Can you show me them in a simple way?

Tatwo...:)

If you want to keep it simple, I'll just start you off with one. Here are the 144,000 from 12 tribes raptured from the earth to heaven.

Revelation 14

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

[tatwo]

20 hours ago, The Light said:

If you want to keep it simple, I'll just start you off with one. Here are the 144,000 from 12 tribes raptured from the earth to heaven.

Revelation 14

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Ok so John is called up into heaven…and the Lamb is on the earth where Mount Zion is…so John’s perspective is almost to be looking from heaven onto the earth…and you define that as rapture?

About the 144,000…what actually are those two names written on their foreheads…and who are those 4 beasts?

Interesting passage to be sure.

Tatwo…:)

[The Light]

24 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Ok so John is called up into heaven…and the Lamb is on the earth where Mount Zion is…so John’s perspective is almost to be looking from heaven onto the earth…and you define that as rapture?

I don't recall defining that as a rapture. The rapture I defined was the 144,000 being redeemed from the earth.

Rev 14

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

24 minutes ago, tatwo said:

About the 144,000…what actually are those two names written on their foreheads…

Chapter and verse?

24 minutes ago, tatwo said:

and who are those 4 beasts?

Who they are does not change the fact that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth. Meaning they are caught up or raptured. 

24 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Interesting passage to be sure.

Tatwo…:)

Yes it is. It proves a rapture.

[Selah7]

46 minutes ago, The Light said:

I don't recall defining that as a rapture. The rapture I defined was the 144,000 being redeemed from the earth.

Rev 14

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Chapter and verse?

Who they are does not change the fact that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth. Meaning they are caught up or raptured. 

Yes it is. It proves a rapture.

…but this “rapture” is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.  Agree? 

In other words, this happens at the 7th trump.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Selah7

[The Light]

2 hours ago, Selah7 said:

…but this “rapture” is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.  Agree? 

In other words, this happens at the 7th trump.

No. I don't agree with that at all. The rapture of the 144,000 takes place sometime in the 1st four seals of Revelation 6, but few will understand this.

[The Light]

On 12/31/2022 at 8:59 AM, Selah7 said:

…but this “rapture” is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.  Agree? 

In other words, this happens at the 7th trump.

There is no rapture at the 7th trumpet. Jesus has returned to set up His kingdom on earth at the 7th trumpet. 

[Selah7]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

There is no rapture at the 7th trumpet. Jesus has returned to set up His kingdom on earth at the 7th trumpet. 

Actually, there’s no rapture at all, only a Second Coming of our Savior at the 7th trump, at which point begins the 1,000-year Millennial kingdom.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Selah7 said:

Actually, there’s no rapture at all, only a Second Coming of our Savior at the 7th trump, at which point begins the 1,000-year Millennial kingdom.

How do you tell your mind that verses like this do not exist?

1 Thes 4

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

John 14

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Maybe you are using a bad translation, as there are so many verses about raptures in scripture that you have to ignore much of the Bible to conclude there are not raptures.

 

[Selah7]

49 minutes ago, The Light said:

How do you tell your mind that verses like this do not exist?

1 Thes 4

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

John 14

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Maybe you are using a bad translation, as there are so many verses about raptures in scripture that you have to ignore much of the Bible to conclude there are not raptures.

 

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

At the seventh trump, the Lord will descend.  So all we need to do is turn to the book of Revelation to learn precisely when this will happen and what events will take place right before the seventh trump sounds. When we witness these predetermined events unfolding before our eyes, we will know our Lord will soon return. Then the trump will sound and we will be changed from our physical bodies into our spiritual bodies.

In Revelation 11, it tells us exactly three and a half days prior what will happen, and the whole world will know about it. The Antichrist will end his reign by killing God's two witnesses, and the world will celebrate and have a three-and-a-half day party; the dead bodies of the two witnesses will be put on display in a wide street. Did you catch the time frame here? It's three and a half days following the death of two witnesses that the world will rejoice over the death of the two witnesses.

Revelation 11:9; "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."

10; "And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth."

11; "And after three and an half (days) the spirit [breath] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them."

12; "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them (two witnesses), Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

13; "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

14-15 “The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly. Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

There is no flying away and no dodging of the Antichrist’s tribulation.  Christ will return at the 7th trump and establish His kingdom here on earth, and we will see it in our (changed) spiritual bodies:

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

- 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 

[tatwo]

3 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Actually, there’s no rapture at all, only a Second Coming of our Savior at the 7th trump, at which point begins the 1,000-year Millennial kingdom.

There is some great revelation coming forth in this hour for those who are hungry and not bound by yesterdays manna.

I cannot speak for Selah7...there is no need for me too...concerning her perspective on the savior coming at the seventh trumpet...I agree.

I might add...that 7th trumpet is the announcement of the appearance of the King of kings and Lord of lords...known as "Christ"...this is the full revelation of God's original intention in placing the created...heavens and earth...in eternity.

This "Man" comes forth in the image and likeness of God Himself as both Head and Body...the Son of God, a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. 

This "Son of God" comes to maturity on the earth Bro...not in heaven...just as Yahshua did...He is the Head and as such...He is the only one to raise His Body to His perfection...which is what He is currently doing.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

How do you tell your mind that verses like this do not exist?

The issue is not as you suggest..."The Light"...it is a matter of Holy Spirit breathed revelation, faith and understanding...fresh manna...for the Body today...that's likely where you and I differ.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

1 Thes 4

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The overall event is not the rising of the dead or the transformation in the twinkling of an eye of the living as you have emboldened and underlined...though that happens.

The overall context in which this is occurring is what? The return of the Lord...the announcement from heaven of the coming of the King; the voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God: that is the last event.

After that, Christ appears...the perfect Man...the Son of God...comprised of every tribe, tongue, people and nation...those in heaven (clouds...dead in Christ) and those yet alive on earth.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

John 14

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Maybe you are using a bad translation, as there are so many verses about raptures in scripture that you have to ignore much of the Bible to conclude there are not raptures.

One need not ignore these passages...I certainly do not...you interpret John 14:2-4 as a rapture...I do not believe that is the context of that passage...when the chapter is taken as a whole...it is awesome.

One of the primary places I disagree with the "rapture" as you state it...is as follows...if your interested.

Consider that the Lord is telling the boys I must leave (be murdered) now to fulfill the prophecy about me. However He tells them He is coming back...as the Holy Spirit...the Spirit of truth...He dwells with you and will be in you...what is that if it is not a "second" coming of the Lord Yahshua? Here to the earth no less...

It is the promise of the Father...Yahshua tells them He is coming back as the Holy Spirit...this He did at Pentecost...the boys were prepared and waiting for Him.

The place He prepared for them is in "His Body" in the Kingdom of God...right here on earth...once they received Him...as the Holy Spirit indwelt them...they became the temple of God on the earth...this Son has been growing and maturing since that day "The Light."

Tatwo...:)