Did God create evil? (A look at Isaiah 45:7)

[David1701]

On 8/5/2022 at 1:37 AM, BeyondET said:

It's was a lol moment God didn't create evil but did create basically killing machines that have one purpose weed out the weak and sick in the ocean like a great white shark.

There was no death until Adam fell.  Animals did not kill and eat each other, until sin entered the world through one man.

[JohnR7]

On 6/27/2022 at 11:19 AM, choir loft said:

Ben Avraham wrote, "the answer is in the creation of mankind. Mankind was given a choice to obey or disobey. God wanted man and woman to love and obey Him out of free will and choice."

We have light and darkness, yet God is only light. We have good and evil, yet God is only good. Then we have man and women who are said to be equal. We are told that the two shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24) Some people think marriage is the best thing in the world. Some think it is the worst. God is a singularity, He is one with Himself. Yet man is duel and a dicronomy. This is why we have quantum physics and classic physics. We have a singularity that creates a dicronomy. For the express purpose of joining everything back together again as one. Even we are told the entire Earth is one life form. The entire Universe is a cosmos where everything connects and all works together as one. 

[JohnR7]

On 8/10/2022 at 10:31 AM, David1701 said:

There was no death until Adam fell.  Animals did not kill and eat each other, until sin entered the world through one man.

There was death before Adam but no one aged. There are no remains of a person that is older than 30. There was no disease. Men were hunted down and killed like an animal. You have a arrow or spear head in them or the skull is smashed. Just as Cain said, they will hunt me down and kill me. 

Before Pangea the animals did not kill each other. They did not bite and devour and consume one another. There were mammals at the time of Pangea but they were small and humans had not evolved yet. The remaining reptiles are crockdiles and turtles that require a lot of moisture. The atmosphere at that time was pink and a lot more humid than today. 

[David1701]

7 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

There was death before Adam but no one aged. There are no remains of a person that is older than 30. There was no disease. Men were hunted down and killed like an animal. You have a arrow or spear head in them or the skull is smashed. Just as Cain said, they will hunt me down and kill me. 

Before Pangea the animals did not kill each other. They did not bite and devour and consume one another. There were mammals at the time of Pangea but they were small and humans had not evolved yet. The remaining reptiles are crockdiles and turtles that require a lot of moisture. The atmosphere at that time was pink and a lot more humid than today. 

Rom. 5:12-19 (WEB)

 12 Therefore as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; and so death passed to all men, because all sinned.
  13 For until the law, sin was in the world; but sin is not charged when there is no law.
  14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those whose sins weren’t like Adam’s disobedience, who is a foreshadowing of him who was to come.
  15 But the free gift isn’t like the trespass. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
  16 The gift is not as through one who sinned: for the judgement came by one to condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses to justification.
  17 For if by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; so much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ.
  18 So then as through one trespass, all men were condemned; even so through one act of righteousness, all men were justified to life.
  19 For as through the one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one, many will be made righteous.

---

God's word tells us that death entered the world through the sin of one man - Adam.  It is because of Adam's disobedience that the whole human race (we are all descendants of the first man - Adam) was plunged into sin and death.

As by the sin of one man, sin, death and condemnation passed to all men; so, by one Man and his act of obedience (the Cross), many will be made righteous.

[Marilyn C]

On 6/26/2022 at 9:32 AM, Jacob Ben Avraham said:

ISAIAH 45:7 

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD (YHVH) do all these things."

This is a strange verse that might capture the attention of many. I am sure we have heard it said that "Evil comes from the Devil" We all seem to connect evil to Satan and his demonic entities. Yet, this verse clearly states that YHVH created evil. Case closed. But we must ask ourselves "why?"

Why did a loving, perfect, and Holy God create evil? So, as we attempt to answer this question. Let's look at the words with a fine-tooth comb.

"Light and darkness" "peace and evil" "form, make, create" How can we relate these words to our world today? in the world in which we live? Here we see opposites, "light vs darkness" "peace vs evil". We can also see these in similarities; "light and peace" and "Darkness and evil" Two go together and two are different. But they are ALL made by Adonai. The word used for "create" in Hebrew is "Bara" which means "to create or bring into being for a specific purpose." It is not just to create or make and throw out there into existence, sit back and see what happens.

All things were made for a purpose. We see in Genesis Chapter 1 that there was darkness, yet out of the darkness came light. "Light" is also referred to as Yeshua himself. One thought is that when YHVH "spoke" into existence all that He created, the words that He spoke emanated at such a high frequency that the sound waves were heated to such a degree that they glowed with "light" But this is just an idea. No one was around back then to observe creation.

Yet, before Genesis 1, there was just eternity past, and, nothingness? the blackness of empty space? Yet since Elohim existed eternally from eternity past, then, there can not be "nothingness" rather "somethingness" (wow, is that really a word?) Yes, (my word) Elohim existed so there was no such thing as "nothingness" yet "darkness?' did it exist before Genesis 1?

Can darkness associate itself with evil? There are two entities of "darkness" one is "physical" darkness (if one can call it that) and the other "spiritual darkness". In order to sleep well, we need a "dark" room, to close our eyes and rest. Photographers many years ago developed film in a "dark" room. When I was in high school, I took a course in photography and Mr. Tovar, my photography teacher taught us how to go into a pitch-black closet and unroll the film in our camera into a black box with a hole in the top, then pour in the chemicals to develop the negatives. "Darkness" was needed to develop the film. There are animals that only come out during the darkness of night to feed, and flowers close up to rest during the night.

So, that kind of darkness is good, so "peace" and "relaxation" can come in the "darkness" to allow us to sleep and rest. But spiritual darkness relates to evil. Not knowing the Torah (Bible) exposes us to evil. What we don't know CAN hurt us. Rejection of God's gift of Salvation brings darkness into our lives and makes us slaves to the "evil" master; HaSatan.

Knowing what spiritual darkness is can lead us to the "light" of the gospel. rejecting "evil" and welcoming "Shalom" (peace) through Yeshua.
Recognizing a poisonous scorpion (darkness, evil) from a non-poisonous one can bring one "peace" in that we know what to look for and avoid. Well, all scorpions sting, but some are like a bee or wasp sting, and others, well... you'd better go see a doctor quickly! (the difference is in the claw and stinger)

When we read and obey God's Commandments, we get "peace" in our lives, yet the "negative" commandments warn us against "evil" and knowing what "evil" can do against us, and thus avoiding the same, brings us "peace". In a dark room, where the is pitch-blackness, if you stike a match, that light from the match however small that flame is, chases away the darkness, now, as our eyes adjust, we can see around us. So is the Word of God, like a flame from a match, that will reveal everything around us and the spiritual darkness will flee. (mind you, don't blow out the flame)

So, back to the million-dollar question; Why did God create evil and peace together? Perhaps the answer is in the creation of mankind. Mankind was given a choice to obey or disobey. God wanted man and woman to love and obey Him out of free will and choice. The same is for us today. If there had been no such thing as "evil" then, we would have no choice BUT to obey and love, there would be no testing our love, we would be like robots or machines that run because they are programmed to run. We are more than machines, we are His living creations, created with a choice to "walk in the light and have peace" rather than "succumb to the darkness and be enveloped in evil".

Would we also dare say that God created evil, to punish evil doers? Whatever a man sows, that he must also reap. We can see that in our everyday lives. Even Yeshua said to Peter; "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword." So, evil might have been created for that reason also.

Either way, the choice is ours.

Ben Avraham

The light gives way to darkness, yet the light will soon return       (Key Largo, FL) 

Hi Ben.

I like how you said that there was a purpose. Now my understanding of God creating evil....

First, in scripture we read of God with hands, feet, face, back etc but we know that God is Spirit, and those words are just to help us understand what is happening.

Then when it says that God hardened Pharaoh`s heart, actually God gave Pharaoh every opportunity to repent but he didn`t and thus over time his heart hardened.

Thus we need to look at the context and not just see from our earthly perspective.

So when God created the universe he made OPPORTUNITY for man to chose other than God`s ways. The result was man did chose his own way and that led to all sorts of behaviour not of God. There is a time limit on this choice and in eternity there will be no choice for any one`s own way. The choices would have been made.

God therefore created the OPPORTUNITY for choices other than His way, but for a limited time. The purpose being that all those in God`s great kingdom in eternity will have chosen by their free will to be there.  

[Marilyn C]

Now my Bible has a good commentary.

`...create evil...` (Isa. 45: 7)

`evil` Heb. translated sorrow, wretchedness, adversity, afflictions, calamities, but never translated - sin.

God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness etc to be the sure fruits of sin.

[Jacob Ben Avraham]

Good point, Yes, all of those are the fruits of sin

[choir loft]

On 8/20/2022 at 6:06 AM, JohnR7 said:

We have light and darkness, yet God is only light. We have good and evil, yet God is only good. Then we have man and women who are said to be equal. We are told that the two shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24) Some people think marriage is the best thing in the world. Some think it is the worst. God is a singularity, He is one with Himself. Yet man is duel and a dicronomy. This is why we have quantum physics and classic physics. We have a singularity that creates a dicronomy. For the express purpose of joining everything back together again as one. Even we are told the entire Earth is one life form. The entire Universe is a cosmos where everything connects and all works together as one. 

Nice rendition of Christian gnostic heresy.   

You've got it down to a fine art there, buddy.  Here are a few gnostic quotes submitted to enlighten those who are unaware of this insidious philosophy.

(The following are gnostic, heretical quotations.  They are NOT considered canon/Word of God.)

"what comes into existence in him is knowledge, which appeared in order that oblivion might vanish and the Father might be known. Since oblivion came into existence because the Father was not known, then if the Father comes to be known, oblivion will not exist from that moment on." -  Gospel of Truth S.18

"Indeed, it is more fitting to say that the world is an illusion," - Treatise on the Resurrection S.48

"Not only do humans need redemption, but also the angels, too" - Tripartite Tractate S.25

"even the Son Himself needed redemption" - Tripartite Tractate S.30

"Light and darkness, life and death, right and left, are brothers of one another.  They are inseparable.  Because of this neither are the good good, nor the evil evil, nor is life life, nor neath death.  Each one will dissolve into its earliest origin." - gospel of Philip S.53

As we sink further and further into gnostic heresy the American Protestant church wanders further and further from God's honest truth.   As a result the Holy Spirit has departed from it (1 Samuel 4:21) and judgment is upon it. (1 Peter 4:17)

Humans can deceive one another with lies, but God isn't persuaded by any of them.

It is time to repent of our SINs and ignorance.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by choir loft

[JohnR7]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:10 AM, choir loft said:

Nice rendition of Christian gnostic heresy.  

I do not know what gnostic means, but people are always guilty of what they accuse others of. So you better get the log out of your eye before you go looking for the speck in the eye of others. 

[choir loft]

On 8/24/2022 at 3:11 AM, JohnR7 said:

I do not know what gnostic means, but people are always guilty of what they accuse others of. So you better get the log out of your eye before you go looking for the speck in the eye of others. 

Chill out man.  Why the knee jerk response?  Did I call you a fool or something?  I didn't, though you act as if I did.  Guilty conscience perhaps?  You tell me.....

You don't know what gnosticism means?

I suggest a bit of googling on your part.   The subject is interesting because modern society AS WELL AS the church has adopted a great deal of it as faux theology.

I replied to your post with several gnostic quotes SO AS to enlighten you concerning your own formula for interpreting modern church myths and fantasies.

If trying to enlighten another is something of an irritation, then I thank you for your remarks.  In my early years I found school days something of an irritation too because I always wanted to go out and play ball or something.  The serious matter of education is sometimes prickly especially when one is comfortable living a lie.

How can I accuse you or anyone of being a gnostic when you don't know the meaning of the word?   Seriously, I cannot.

It would be a good idea, though, to do a bit of reading of that stuff.  The early church swallowed it hook line and sinker and it appears to be doing so again.   If one knows what gnostic references mean, then one can identify them when they are used by others ESPECIALLY FROM THE PULPIT.

For example, the gospel of Thomas is frequently quoted by atheists and those of the Gay Authority.  Do you know why they like it and why they use these quotes to flail the church?  

Knowledge is power sir and if you are unfamiliar with some of these terms and myths you have denuded yourself of quite a bit.   One cannot continue parroting scripture like a religious slogan and expect anyone to buy it.  Most do not.  

Paul said he became like those he wished to persuade of Christ.   That's a good idea.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...