The Sign of the Son of Man

[Charlie744]

38 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Revelation Man.

Oh, brother! Back to the ridiculous use of gematria, trying to sound intelligent. If you're going to use gematria or biblical numerology, at least get the meaning of the numbers correct! "7 = God's spritual perfection; 10 = The Ten Commandments; 12 = God's governmental perfection." But, there's nothing about "square roots" in this at all! While it is true that the square root of 144 is 12, it is the CUBE root of 1,000 that is 10! The square root of 1,000 is 31.6227766... ! And, it is faulty to mix the two, as though it had some significance! That's also true for 7000! The cube root of 1000 is 10, but the cube root of 7 is something irrational, 1.912931... !

Check out numerologynation.com, for instance, for a more complete listing of these numbers.

But, the BETTER way is simply to realize that God uses numbers to get His points across and to define "countdowns" in Scripture.

God gave the children of Israel in the wilderness a time of 40 years of wandering, signifying testing or probation! The same is true for the 40 years of testing after the Messiah was crucified before the destruction in 70 A.D. came true!

Just don't go making the numbers to be something they're not!

Again, this is an entirely INAPPROPRIATE use of the numbers in the Scriptures! It's as bad to mismatch these numbers as it is to put analogies together that don't belong together to make some sort of weak argument from allegory! The allegorical interpretation of Scripture is NOT VALID! Not in words, and NOT in numbers!

I understand prophecy just fine, brother. YOU need to understand that the Scriptures were written BY children of Israel, FOR children of Israel, and ABOUT children of Israel! Therefore, to interpret ANYTHING outside of their affect on the children of Israel is to open yourself up to all kinds of MISINTERPRETATIONS and LIES!

 

I just started to read your response and I felt  a need to ask you a question or two regarding the following passage of yours (didn't want to lose the thought);

God gave the children of Israel in the wilderness a time of 40 years of wandering, signifying testing or probation! The same is true for the 40 years of testing after the Messiah was crucified before the destruction in 70 A.D. came true!

First, I absolutely love this thought and if you do not mind, I had thought of this also but I wanted to try and reconcile the 40 years between the two periods before I was comfortable with the interpretation.

Secondly, do you think there is any value in the thought that:

1) except for Caleb and Joshua, everyone in that generation would never see the promised land... same results for the Jews that lived at the time of Christ?

2) I do not know the specific tribes that Caleb and Joshua represented but they were only the two who would live and go into the promised land. Do you think there is any connection / relationship / type these two might have to the Judah and Benjamin two tribes that were not dispersed? 

During my study of Daniel, I am completely convinced there is not ONE sign of coincidence, accident or randomness or any word, letter, etc., that is not necessary and required within His plan of salvation. Doesn't mean I am able to find them but I know they are there!

If you get a chance, let me know your thoughts.. now I will continue reading your response, Charlie

 

 

[Revelation Man]

On 7/15/2022 at 5:21 AM, Retrobyter said:

You're also misreading several passages of Scripture and coming away with false assumptions! For instance, there's no division between the 69th and the 70th Weeks of years in Daniel 9:24-27.

Firstly, this is an easy statement to totally destroy. We know 70 AD was 0ver 35 years after Jesus' Death, so are you saying the 70th week all flows in a perfect continuum order, or just in the order you perceive it to be, because 35 years or 2000 years adds up to the same thing. There were Three Prophesies, that escapes you because you get trapped in the old False Jesus after 69 weeks dying "Really means 69 1/2 weeks" which, tbh, is nonsensical. We have a Prophesy of 49 (7 weeks) years where the Wall will be Rebuilt. Then we have a Prophecy of Jesus Death via 62 weeks or 434 years.  Then we have one week left, which must see Israel REPENT, not just see Jesus die for sins, the prophesy MANDATES that by the time this Prophesy is over that all prophesy MUST BE CLOSED UP. (Finished). This Prophesy mandates Israel MUST REPENT before the 70th week passes. This has not yet been fulfilled, of course. Satan is a very skilled at confusing men. I have a blog in Daniel's 70th week that people of your ilk run from when I post it because it destroys this thinking. Yet they continue down this line of thinking, men's ideas are way to important unto them it seems.

On 7/15/2022 at 5:21 AM, Retrobyter said:

First, the Messiah Himself is the One who is the "he" in Daniel 9:27, because it can't be "the prince that shall come," since this "prince" is the object of the preposition "of."

No he is not, that is why we get a SMALL p instead of a capital P. The he is the Anti-Christ, this is simple stuff. NOTICE:

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; (Jesus, thus a capital Capital P) but he(Anti-Christ) shall be broken without hand.

Now Daniel 9

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince(Again Capital P) shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (Jesus Dies....Capital M), but not for himself:

and the people (the Romans DESTROYED the Temple)of the prince that shall come(SMALL p not a capital P) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;(in 70 AD) and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he(prince that SHALL COME 2000 years later) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,(by pressuring the Jewish High Priest) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel wrote all of these chapters, he Capitalizes Jesus as Messiah the Prince in Dan. 9:25 and 26 and in Dan. 8:25 he capitalizes the Prince of princes, but you want me to believe the prince that is to come is the same Messiah and he doesn't capitalize his name? Stop it already. How can people be so off kilter on Prophesy? It is not their calling but they somehow want to be the leg not the arm God has called them unto. Do what you do best brother, this is not it. You are lost via Prophesy my friend. 

I have destroyed Charlie 744's positions so much he stopped trying and just started liking anyone who disagrees with me, since he can never win a debate, so take his likes with a grain of salt. 

If I said Charles Manson was evil and you said he was just misunderstood he would give you a like. I find it amusing tbh.

I am not going to go over the whole Daniel 9:24-27 passage again because I have destroyed your thought process on this countless times. There comes a moment in time when one realizes he's just wasting time brother, I shant try to explain something a 5th time. 

When you get to heaven you will be hit with all the info you were wrong on, and that I was trying to direct you in the right direction on. And the Lord will just be like, Satan is a deceiver, it is what it is. And when you start to say but, but, but I didn't kno.........Jesus will say, hold up, I sent you Rev Man, you refused to listen. But all is forgiven, I just wanted you to know.................

Edited July 18, 2022 by Revelation Man

[Retrobyter]

16 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

 

I just started to read your response and I felt  a need to ask you a question or two regarding the following passage of yours (didn't want to lose the thought);

God gave the children of Israel in the wilderness a time of 40 years of wandering, signifying testing or probation! The same is true for the 40 years of testing after the Messiah was crucified before the destruction in 70 A.D. came true!

First, I absolutely love this thought and if you do not mind, I had thought of this also but I wanted to try and reconcile the 40 years between the two periods before I was comfortable with the interpretation.

Secondly, do you think there is any value in the thought that:

1) except for Caleb and Joshua, everyone in that generation would never see the promised land... same results for the Jews that lived at the time of Christ?

2) I do not know the specific tribes that Caleb and Joshua represented but they were only the two who would live and go into the promised land. Do you think there is any connection / relationship / type these two might have to the Judah and Benjamin two tribes that were not dispersed? 

1) I really don't think we can say that's true about the time of the Messiah. It's just that they had been given time to repent of their crucifixion of the Messiah, and they did not take that opportunity. So, God "lowered the boom" in 70 A.D., destroying much of that generation in the persecutions to follow.

2) While CaaleeV  ("Caleb") was from the tribe of Yhudah ("Judah," see 1 Chronicles 2), Yehowshu`a ("Joshua") was from the tribe of Efrayim ("Ephraim," see 1 Chronicles 7).

So, no, there's no connection through tribes.

16 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

During my study of Daniel, I am completely convinced there is not ONE sign of coincidence, accident or randomness or any word, letter, etc., that is not necessary and required within His plan of salvation. Doesn't mean I am able to find them but I know they are there!

If you get a chance, let me know your thoughts.. now I will continue reading your response, Charlie

 

 

All I know is that God is COMPLETELY EFFICIENT! Not one word of His Scriptures will fall to the ground! Thus, all that we read that God said through His messengers (angels), will come true EXACTLY AS STATED.

[Charlie744]

5 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Firstly, this is an easy statement to totally destroy. We know 70 AD was 0ver 35 years after Jesus' Death, so are you saying the 70th week all flows in a perfect continuum order, or just in the order you perceive it to be, because 35 years or 2000 years adds up to the same thing. There were Three Prophesies, that escapes you because you get trapped in the old False Jesus after 69 weeks dying "Really means 69 1/2 weeks" which, tbh, is nonsensical. We have a Prophesy of 49 (7 weeks) years where the Wall will be Rebuilt. Then we have a Prophecy of Jesus Death via 62 weeks or 434 years.  Then we have one week left, which must see Israel REPENT, not just see Jesus die for sins, the prophesy MANDATES that by the time this Prophesy is over that all prophesy MUST BE CLOSED UP. (Finished). This Prophesy mandates Israel MUST REPENT begore the 70th week passes. This has not yet been fulfilled, of course. Satan is a very skilled at confusing men. I have a blog in Daniel's 70th week that people of your ilk run from when I post it because it destroys this thinking. Yet they continue down this line of thinking, men's ideas are way to important unto them it seems.

No he is not, that is why we get a SMALL p instead of a capital P. The he is the Anti-Christ, this is simple stuff. NOTICE:

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; (Capital P) but he shall be broken without hand.

 

Here is the interpretation but it is of no value to you....

 

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy (the little horn will corrupt God's Word and bring in rituals, policies, practices from paganism - it (church) will no longer resemble the church preached by Paul, John, etc.), also he (little horn - the papacy) shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he (little horn - the papacy) shall magnify himself (claims to be God on earth) in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he  (little horn - the papacy) shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (God) ; (Capital P) but he shall be broken without hand (God).

 

You don't need to respond.. I already know your position.

 

 

Here is the interpretation but it is of no value to you....

 

5 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Now Daniel 9

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince(Again Capital P) (Messiah) shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: (the Messiah will come AFTER 7 + 60 + 2) - 69 weeks. AFTER the end of the 69th week, the Messiah will come - He came exactly on time. The very first day of the 70th week He would be baptized in the Jordan to begin His ministry. This of course, means it was also the 1st day of the last week in the 70 weeks of years prophecy.)

 

the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.26 And after threescore and two weeks (AFTER 60 - 2 OR 62 weeks) - this means the first 7 weeks (which came first in the order of the prophecy) was fulfilled or completed, meaning that at the END OF THE 62 SECTIONED PERIOD (OR AFTER A TOTAL OF 69 WEEKS) shall Messiah be cut off  (Jesus was indeed "cut off" AFTER THE END OF THE 69TH WEEK SECTIONS WERE FULFILLED OR COMPLETED) This does not mean the next day after the 69th week was completed - in means the first 2 sections of the 3 sections were completed and during the last section when the Messiah would come He would be "cut off".(Jesus Dies....Capital M), but not for himself:

You don't need to respond.. I already know your position.

 

 

 

Here is the interpretation but it is of no value to you....

 

5 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

and the people (the Romans DESTROYED the Temple)of the prince (Yes, this represents Titus, the Roman General in 70 AD, who happened to also be the son of the Emperor Vespasian (making Titus also a prince - small p) that shall come(SMALL p not a capital P) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;(in 70 AD) and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.  And he (This is the Messiah who will confirm the New Covenant with Israel - this WAS THE PURPOSE OF HIS VISITATION - TO COMPLETE THE SIX (6) REQUIREMENTS FOUND IN 9:24 And, confirm the New Covenant He promised in Jeremiah 31:31.(prince that SHALL COME 2000 years later) There is absolutely no mention at all of an anti-Christ figure. The only bad guy has been disclosed - he has been identified as the "little horn" of Daniel 7 and 8, and it is this evil one who MUST continue until His second coming.  The ONLY INTERPRETATION OF SOME MYSTICAL ANTI-CHRIST FIGURE COMES DIRECTLY FROM THE JESUIT'S PAPER PREPARED FOR THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE OF REMOVING THE LABEL / IDENTITY OF THE LITTLE HORN FROM THE PAPACY. shall confirm the covenant (Jeremiah 31:31)with many for one week (NO, this is NOT FOR ONE WEEK... IT MEANS THE NEW COVENANT WILL BE CONFIRMED WITHIN THE LAST WEEK OF DANIEL BYT HE MESSIAH). and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,(by pressuring the Jewish High Priest) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

You don't need to respond.. I already know your position.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Daniel wrote all of these chapters, he Capitalizes Jesus as Messiah the Prince in Dan. 9:25 and 26 and in Dan. 8:25 he capitalizes the Prince of princes, but you want me to believe the prince that is to come is the same Messiah and he doesn't capitalize his name?

Not worth answering!!

 

 

5 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

 

Stop it already. How can people be so off kilter on Prophesy? It is not their calling but they somehow want to be the leg not the arm God has called them unto. Do what you do best brother, this is not it. You are lost via Prophesy my friend. 

This is a perfect example of how you conduct yourself … I have seen this a million times where you direct this terrible, insecure and ignorant rant against fellow members in this forum.... I do not know what your parents did to you but I will pray for you....

 

5 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

I have destroyed Charlie 744's positions so much he stopped trying and just started liking anyone who disagrees with me, since he can never win a debate, so take his likes with a grain of salt. 

I had already addressed this with you ... there is no debate, but a discussion on different opinions and interpretations. YOU are  using this forum to find some sense of superiority, self worth, and stature - it is not working! You do not get these things from trying to tear down and belittle folks... I have witnessed at least a million times how YOU have been given the gift of prophecy and all others just "don't get it".... I would bet the house your parents and ridiculed and put you down every chance they could get... now, it's your turn ! 

The things you say and the way you say them are horrible.. you treat and talk to people in the most miserable manner... you alienate everyone you come in contact with...(my thoughts - and I have seem too many people like you over the many years).

By the way, these thoughts, which I had absolutely no intention of ever sharing with you  privately or publicly have been now written because you simply have continued to go to far.... Remember, these are MY INTERPRETATIONS... I CAN NOT BELIEVE YOU CAN'T SEE THEM... BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU, I HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE GIFT OF PROPHECY...  

YOUR constant comments to everyone are indeed malicious, unnecessary and with all your gifts of prophecy, I can not understand you can not see they are "UNWANTED".

Now, you understand why I have not responded to your ridiculous interpretations - talking to a potato - one who one can easily dislike but more importantly, one who is in need of prayer.  

After this message, I will "block" you from all posts / messages, etc. but I will  continue to pray for you.... Best wishes, Charlie

5 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

If I said Charles Manson was evil and you said he was just misunderstood he would give you a like. I find it amusing tbh.

I am no going to go over the whole Dan. 9:24-27 passage because  have destroyed your thought process on this countless times. There comes a moment in time when one realizes he's just wasting time brother, I shant try to explain something a 5th time. 

When you get to heaven you will be hit with all the info you were wrong on, and that I was trying to direct you in the right direction on. And the Lord will just e like, Satan is a deceiver. And when you start to say but, but, bit I didn't kno.........Jesus will say, hold up, I sent you Rev Man, you refused to listen. But all is forgiven, I just wanted you to know.................

 

[Revelation Man]

On 7/16/2022 at 11:11 PM, Retrobyter said:

Oh, brother! Back to the ridiculous use of gematria, trying to sound intelligent. If you're going to use gematria or biblical numerology, at least get the meaning of the numbers correct! "7 = God's spritual perfection; 10 = The Ten Commandments; 12 = God's governmental perfection." But, there's nothing about "square roots" in this at all! While it is true that the square root of 144 is 12, it is the CUBE root of 1,000 that is 10! The square root of 1,000 is 31.6227766... ! And, it is faulty to mix the two, as though it had some significance! That's also true for 7000! The cube root of 1000 is 10, but the cube root of 7 is something irrational, 1.912931... !

Firstly I said a sorta square root, in that God is using multiplication of numbers with meaning to give us a total meaning with ADDED EMPHASIS. Its not a Square Root of course, thus the SORTA point of emphasis. 

The number Seven

Seven refers to the number of God, divine perfection, or completeness.

When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. (Exodus 21:2, ESV)

On the seventh day, God rested after completing the creation (Genesis 2:2).

God's Word is pure, like silver purified seven times in the fire (Psalm 12:6).

Jesus taught Peter to forgive 70 times seven (Matthew 18:22).

Seven demons went out from Mary Magdalene, symbolizing total deliverance (Luke 8:2).

Any time we see a number in the bible, it is meant to convey a specific meaning. For example, the number 6 is the number of man, 3 means divine perfection and permanence, and the numbers 7 and 12 mean completion and spiritual perfection, i. e., holiness. The number 10, mentioned 242 times in the bible, has a special  meaning-authority, completeness of order and responsibility.

Those who are familiar with the Book of Revelation know that the number “seven” appears regularly in this book. John wrote letters to seven churches in Asia (Rev. 1:4, 11). One like the Son of Man stood in the midst of seven golden lampstands with seven stars in His hand (Rev. 1:12-13, 16). There were seven lamps of fire before God’s throne (Rev. 4:5) and seven Spirits of God (Rev. 1:4; 3:1; 4:5; 5:6). A scroll was sealed with seven seals. Seven thunders said things that weren’t written down (Rev. 10:3-4). The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes (Rev. 5:6), and the dragon and the beast both had seven heads (Rev. 12:3; 13:1; 17:3, 7). There are seven mountains and seven kings (Rev. 17:9-10). 

Perhaps most famously, the Book of Revelation features seven seals (Rev. 5:1-5; 6:1-17; 8:1-2), seven trumpets (Rev. 8:2; 8:6-9:21; 11:15-19), and seven bowls (Rev. 15:6-16:21; 17:1, 21:9).

Seven is Divine completion, the 7 Spirits and 7 Eyes means God sees all and is everywhere, of course, the 7 Churches represents all churches throughout the whole church age of course the 7 Angels doesn't mean Angels it does indeed mean Messengers and thus each church had a pastor who brought them the word of God, it is just common sense, John would never be asked to deliver a "Message" to an Angel of God !! The 7 Messengers represents all of God's men of the cloth down through the ages just like the 7 churches are all of God's churches during the church age. Gid sent us Messages through John, not Angels who understand God's will and live amidst God's throne already.

God has a Judgment Book (Scroll) SEALED UP with 7 Seals, the seals are not Judgments, they are SEALS !! The 7 Trumps are all the Wrath of God, the 7th Trumps contains the last of Three Woes, and the 3rd Woe contains 7 Vials of Wrath which means the Last Woe is the last of the 7 Trumps and has 7 Vials also,  so both 7s represents God's COMPLETION of Judgment. The 7 Horns, Heads and Mountains represent God's Complete Judgment against Israel via Gentile forces, the 7 x 10 which equals 70 years in Babylon represented Completion x Divine Completion, or God's complete Judgment against Israel and Nebuchadnezzar was God's "Instrument". 

You are the one who cant pick up what God's is putting down brother. Until a few years back I had never thought about this at all, the difference is when God tries to teach me something I am not stuck in an old school of thought just because I thought something else first, in other words I am OK with having been WRONG in times past, its OK to be wrong, as long as God's truths win out in the very end, who cares right? The problem is men's pride gets in the way, men seemingly can't ever admit to being wrong, in most cases.

On 7/16/2022 at 11:11 PM, Retrobyter said:

But, the BETTER way is simply to realize that God uses numbers to get His points across and to define "countdowns" in Scripture.

God gave the children of Israel in the wilderness a time of 40 years of wandering, signifying testing or probation! The same is true for the 40 years of testing after the Messiah was crucified before the destruction in 70 A.D. came true!

Just don't go making the numbers to be something they're not!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, now we see, as long as a "Number" doesn't fit "your understanding and agenda" it must be wrong. But the facts are you do not understand prophesy in the least bit brother. You cant get the Pre Trib Rapture right (I don't think, you may be Pre Trib, I doubt it), you can't understand that ONE WEEK Remains out of Israel's Judgment!! You then shift Jesus' death to the middle of the week, literally no one who understands prophesy thinks this way brother. 

On 7/16/2022 at 11:11 PM, Retrobyter said:

Again, this is an entirely INAPPROPRIATE use of the numbers in the Scriptures! It's as bad to mismatch these numbers as it is to put analogies together that don't belong together to make some sort of weak argument from allegory! The allegorical interpretation of Scripture is NOT VALID! Not in words, and NOT in numbers!

No, it is SPOT ON. Id doesn't fit your preconceived notions however, but it does fit the facts, which is all I care about tbh.

On 7/16/2022 at 11:11 PM, Retrobyter said:

I understand prophecy just fine, brother. YOU need to understand that the Scriptures were written BY children of Israel, FOR children of Israel, and ABOUT children of Israel! Therefore, to interpret ANYTHING outside of their affect on the children of Israel is to open yourself up to all kinds of MISINTERPRETATIONS and LIES!

The Scriptures were written by the Holy Spirit and its interpretation is given by the Holy Spirit, if men wrote it then we wouldn't have Prophecy, God dictated it. If I write a book for Mr. X as he dictates what I should write down, am I the author? Of course not.

God wrote the bible, Jesus is THE WORD !! 

Amen !!

Edited July 18, 2022 by Revelation Man

[Retrobyter]

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Firstly, this is an easy statement to totally destroy.

Shalom, Revelation Man.

Why would you seek to destroy? Doesn't haSatan do enough of that already? Unlike @Charlie744, I'm willing to keep working with you. Where I was is where you are right now; so, I believe you still can grow into the man God means you to be. It's not enough to be somewhat knowledgeable about prophecy; one must also have the aptitude to teach! That means one must be able to give all the credit for anything right he says to God, and take on the responsibility of saying on some things, "I don't know." The GOOD teacher will say, "Y'know, I really don't know what this means, but let's look at it together and see if we can figure it out together with God's help."

The GOOD teacher will acknowledge that he doesn't know it all, and he will accept responsibility when he has been shown to be wrong. It's not a sign of weakness; it's an acknowledgement of GOD'S knowledge and wisdom being greater than his own!

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We know 70 AD was 0ver 35 years after Jesus' Death, so are you saying the 70th week all flows in a perfect continuum order, or just in the order you perceive it to be, because 35 years or 2000 years adds up to the same thing. There were Three Prophesies, that escapes you because you get trapped in the old False Jesus after 69 weeks dying "Really means 69 1/2 weeks" which, tbh, is nonsensical.

Well, it's "nonsensical" to Western thinkers, but in Hebrew literature, it makes perfect sense. Hebrew literature lists the major points FIRST, and THEN it goes into the details of those major points. In talking about the GROUPS of Weeks, the 7 Weeks, the 62 Weeks and the One Week, Yeshua`s death was "AFTER the" second GROUP of "62 Weeks," and into the One Week, NOT "at the end of the 62 Weeks," NOR by ASSUMING there's already a GAP between the 62 Weeks and the One Week in which He died!

Then, Daniel's visitor goes into the details of the One Week, within which the Messiah died! 

You're just too used to seeing all the points in chronological order: Western thinking. Remember: Much of what you believe you didn't discover (or invent) by yourself. You probably have been influenced by much of the teachings and writings of your predecessors! One should first come to that realization before one will make any progress in this field.

You do realize that "time marches on," right? When the children of Israel celebrated a Year of Jubilee, that was the 50th year, but it was also the FIRST year of the next Seven! They didn't "ADD a year to the counting of the seven-year cycle!

Likewise, there's no reason for seeing a GAP between these GROUPS of Weeks, UNLESS the text PUTS such a GAP there! That's what Daniel 9:27 does!

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We have a Prophesy of 49 (7 weeks) years where the Wall will be Rebuilt. Then we have a Prophecy of Jesus Death via 62 weeks or 434 years.  Then we have one week left, which must see Israel REPENT, not just see Jesus die for sins, the prophesy MANDATES that by the time this Prophesy is over that all prophesy MUST BE CLOSED UP. (Finished). This Prophesy mandates Israel MUST REPENT before the 70th week passes. This has not yet been fulfilled, of course. Satan is very skilled at confusing men. I have a blog on Daniel's 70th week that people of your ilk run from when I post it because it destroys this thinking. Yet, they continue down this line of thinking, men's ideas are way too important unto them, it seems.

There you go again, trying to "destroy!" The 62 Weeks are NOT a "Prophecy of Jesus' Death!" They are about HIS ARRIVAL! His First Advent! I somewhat agree with what you've just written here, EXCEPT for you timing!

You want ...

(7 Weeks)(62 Weeks) {GAP!} (1 Week).

I'm trying to show you FROM SCRIPTURE how that it's really ...

(7 Weeks)(62 Weeks)(1/2 of 1 Week) {GAP!} (1/2 of 1 Week).

You can't tell me why there is a {GAP!} in your scenario.

I'm trying to show you that the prophecies of Daniel 9:27 were all fulfilled by the Messiah Himself, and HE put the {GAP!} in my scenario when He pronounced the household of the Jews of Jerusalem "DESOLATE" in Matthew 23:38, a partial fulfillment of Daniel 9:27:

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the LORD.' (Psalm 118:26)"

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations (of the scribes and Pharisees) he (the Messiah) shall make it (the household) desolate (EMPTY), even until the consummation (the End), and that determined (the Time of Jacob's Trouble) shall be poured upon the desolate (the city and the household of the Jews left desolate).

 

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No he is not, that is why we get a SMALL p instead of a capital P. The he is the Anti-Christ, this is simple stuff. NOTICE:

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; (Capital P) but he shall be broken without hand.

Well, that's just silly. There are NO capital letters in Hebrew! or in Aramaic! Capital letters were SUPPLIED by the translator! If one KNOWS that a particular word referred to God or to His Messiah, one might capitalize the word, but he isn't told to do so by the language!

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Now Daniel 9

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince(Again Capital P) shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (Jesus Dies....Capital M), but not for himself:

and the people (the Romans DESTROYED the Temple)of the prince that shall come(SMALL p not a capital P) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;(in 70 AD) and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Again, one cannot base his or her conclusions on whether or not a capital letter was supplied! That's NOT part of the Scriptures as written! Even as I agree with you on these conclusions so far, you can't judge the Scriptures based on capital letters!

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

27 And he(prince that SHALL COME 2000 years later) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,(by pressuring the Jewish High Priest) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

These conclusions are not based upon fact! First, the "he" is not talking about "a prince that shall come 2,000 years later!" How'd you just pop into THAT interpretation, when you've already concluded that the "prince that shall come" in verse 26 was a leader of his "people," the "Romans who DESTROYED the Temple," who "shall destroy the city and the sanctuary?" No, the "he" here in verse 27 is still talking about the Messiah of verse 26.

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Daniel wrote all of these chapters, he Capitalizes Jesus as Messiah the Prince in Dan. 9:25 and 26 and in Dan. 8:25 he capitalizes the Prince of princes, but you want me to believe the prince that is to come is the same Messiah and he doesn't capitalize his name?

Seriously? He didn't "capitalize" ANYTHING! THERE ARE NO CAPITAL LETTERS IN HEBREW!!!

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Stop it already. How can people be so off kilter on Prophesy?

YOU tell ME! To suggest that information can be gleaned from capital letters is WAY off kilter!

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

It is not their calling but they somehow want to be the leg not the arm God has called them unto. Do what you do best brother, this is not it. You are lost via Prophesy my friend. 

You keep saying that, but I'm not lost one iota! I know whereof I speak.

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I have destroyed Charlie 744's positions so much he stopped trying and just started liking anyone who disagrees with me, since he can never win a debate, so take his likes with a grain of salt. 

Contrary to your opinion, you haven't done any such thing. Charlie has just gotten tired of going back and forth with you without a single hint of niceness in your demeanor!

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

If I said Charles Manson was evil and you said he was just misunderstood he would give you a like. I find it amusing tbh.

I am not going to go over the whole Dan. 9:24-27 passage because I have destroyed your thought process on this countless times. There comes a moment in time when one realizes he's just wasting time brother, I shant try to explain something a 5th time. 

Does that mean that 4 times is countless?

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

When you get to heaven you will be hit with all the info you were wrong on, and that I was trying to direct you in the right direction on. And the Lord will just e like, Satan is a deceiver. And when you start to say but, but, bit I didn't kno.........Jesus will say, hold up, I sent you Rev Man, you refused to listen. But all is forgiven, I just wanted you to know.................

Frankly, I don't believe we "get to heaven"; I believe we go THROUGH the skies (the "heavens") and meet our Lord in the air. Then, after the Millennium, that which most people call "heaven" (the New Jerusalem) comes HERE to a New Earth!

[Revelation Man]

On 7/17/2022 at 1:06 AM, Charlie744 said:

Here is the interpretation but it is of no value to you....

 

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy (the little horn will corrupt God's Word and bring in rituals, policies, practices from paganism - it (church) will no longer resemble the church preached by Paul, John, etc.), also he (little horn - the papacy) shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he (little horn - the papacy) shall magnify himself (claims to be God on earth) in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he  (little horn - the papacy) shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (God) ; (Capital P) but he shall be broken without hand (God).

You are correct in your assumption, it is zero value to me because the Papacy has zero to do with this Prophesy. The Little Horn will be just like the other 6 Beast Heads a Gentile King who has Dominion over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region, its that simple. 

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy (Little Horn/A.C./The European Union President who orders the False Prophet or Jewish High Priest to STOP Jesus Worship on other words he stops THE SACRIFICE from being Worshiped. The Church is in Heaven by this time, if you got the Raptures timing right you would not go down this Rabbit Hole) , also he(A.C.) shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself  in his heart(Demands to be Worshiped as a god, he can no claim to BE  God if He blasphemes the REAL God as Rev. 17 says he does. BOOM), and by peace shall destroy many:(The A.C./and E.U. get Israel to join the E.U.) he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (Jesus the Son of God or God the Redeemer); (Capital P.....YES) but he(A.C.) shall be broken without hand (By the PRESENCE of Jesus' coming).

Of course you do not understand it, anyone that cries our Papacy and the Pope no matter how evil the leaders of the RCC may or may not be are simply not called unto Prophecy.

On 7/17/2022 at 1:06 AM, Charlie744 said:

Now Daniel 9

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince(Again Capital P) (Messiah) shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: (the Messiah will come AFTER 7 + 60 + 2) - 69 weeks. AFTER the end of the 69th week, the Messiah will come - He came exactly on time. The very first day of the 70th week He would be baptized in the Jordan to begin His ministry. This of course, means it was also the 1st day of the last week in the 70 weeks of years prophecy.)

 

On 7/17/2022 at 1:06 AM, Charlie744 said:

the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.26 And after threescore and two weeks (AFTER 60 - 2 OR 62 weeks) - this means the first 7 weeks (which came first in the order of the prophecy) was fulfilled or completed, meaning that at the END OF THE 62 SECTIONED PERIOD (OR AFTER A TOTAL OF 69 WEEKS) shall Messiah be cut off  (Jesus was indeed "cut off" AFTER THE END OF THE 69TH WEEK SECTIONS WERE FULFILLED OR COMPLETED) This does not mean the next day after the 69th week was completed - in means the first 2 sections of the 3 sections were completed and during the last section when the Messiah would come He would be "cut off".(Jesus Dies....Capital M), but not for himself:

WRONG, he is CUT OFF after 69 weeks really after 62 weeks via that Prophecy which only started AFTER the Wall had been rebuilt. But after 62 PLUS 7 thus he DIES after exactly 69 weeks of 7s which of course equals 483 years. Do you know what CUT OFF means? Look it up, it means sacrificial death. 

Dan.9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

After 7 weeks Wall is Rebuilt PLUS 62 Weeks, Jesus DIES (or is CUT OFF), not Jesus goes into Jordan to get baptized !! 

My English Hebrew Massoretic version

Daniyel 9:26 And after 310 threescore 8346 and two 8147 weeks 7620 shall Mäšîåç מָשִׁיחַ 4899 be cut off, 3772 z8735 but not x369 for himself: and the people 5971 of the prince 5057 that shall come 935 z8802 shall destroy 7843 z8686 the city 5892 and the sanctuary; 6944 and the end 7093 thereof [shall be] with a flood, 7858 and unto x5704 the end 7093 of the war 4421 desolations 8074 z8802 are determined. 2782 z8737

#3772 כָּרַת karath {kaw-rath'}

 a primitive root; TWOT - 1048; v
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) to cut, cut off, cut down, cut off a body part, cut out, eliminate,
    kill, cut a covenant
    1a) (Qal)
        1a1) to cut off
             1a1a) to cut off a body part, behead
        1a2) to cut down
        1a3) to hew
        1a4) to cut or make a covenant
—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication to destroy or consume; specifically to covenant (that is, make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces):—be chewed, be con- [feder-] ate, covenant, cut (down, off), destroy, fail, feller, be freed, hew (down), make a league ([covenant]),.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

 

#0369 אַיִן 'ayin {ah'-yin}

 as if from a primitive root meaning to be nothing or not exist;
    TWOT - 81; subst n neg adv w/prep
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
 

As if from a primitive root meaning to be nothing or not exist; a non-entity; generally used as a negative particle:—else, except, fail [father-] less, be gone, in [-curable], neither, never, no (where), none, nor (any, thing), not, nothing, to nought, past, un [-searchable], well-nigh, without, Compare H0370.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

So, its quite evident this is referring to Jesus DYING not going out in Jordan and starting his Ministry then going firth with that Ministry for 3.5 years !! Its just a nonsensical addition my brother. You are fudging things to make it fit, that is a NO-NO. God needs us to read and believe, not to shift around His facts in order to reach "our facts". So, I understand the Messiah being CUT OFF is him DYING, but after the 62 plus 7 weeks, not after 62 plus 7 plus 3.5 years !! I actually understand how it is added up brother.

Yes, I destroy all wrong assumptions via the Sword of Truth. Amen, it is what we are supposed to do, as ordered by God, Work out the truths via the Word of God, not via the Word of men.

On 7/17/2022 at 1:06 AM, Charlie744 said:

On 7/17/2022 at 12:02 AM, Revelation Man said:

and the people (the Romans DESTROYED the Temple)of the prince (Yes, this represents Titus, the Roman General in 70 AD, who happened to also be the son of the Emperor Vespasian (making Titus also a prince - small p) that shall come(SMALL p not a capital P) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;(in 70 AD) and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.  And he (This is the Messiah who will confirm the New Covenant with Israel - this WAS THE PURPOSE OF HIS VISITATION - TO COMPLETE THE SIX (6) REQUIREMENTS FOUND IN 9:24 And, confirm the New Covenant He promised in Jeremiah 31:31.(prince that SHALL COME 2000 years later) There is absolutely no mention at all of an anti-Christ figure. The only bad guy has been disclosed - he has been identified as the "little horn" of Daniel 7 and 8, and it is this evil one who MUST continue until His second coming.  The ONLY INTERPRETATION OF SOME MYSTICAL ANTI-CHRIST FIGURE COMES DIRECTLY FROM THE JESUIT'S PAPER PREPARED FOR THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE OF REMOVING THE LABEL / IDENTITY OF THE LITTLE HORN FROM THE PAPACY. shall confirm the covenant (Jeremiah 31:31)with many for one week (NO, this is NOT FOR ONE WEEK... IT MEANS THE NEW COVENANT WILL BE CONFIRMED WITHIN THE LAST WEEK OF DANIEL BYT HE MESSIAH). and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,(by pressuring the Jewish High Priest) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

and the people of the prince (Rome/Europe, not Titus per se in that the leader/king here is not pertinent because we are being told whom the coming Anti-Christs people were...Europeans)that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he (SMALL h the prince that shall come was a SMALL p) shall confirm(this is the Hebrew word GABAR meaning he ACTS INSOLENTLY, did you know that? Jesus is NOT Insolent)  the covenant(Agreement, ONE WORD has you all conflated, Covenant in Hebrew simply means Agreement) with many(Many Nations are deceived not just Israel) for one week(7 years): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease(The A.C. gets the False Prophet, Jewish High Priest to FORBID Jesus Worship AFTER the Jews have Repented, see Zechariah 13:8-9), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

What does Satan love more than anything? He loves the opposite of God, he loves to defile that which is God's. Thus when Satan got Jason(TYPE False Prophet) to welcome in the Greek King Antiochus Epiphanes(TYPE Anti-Christ) into the temple of God to make a sacrificial offering on God's Altar, and ten got a decree from Jason mandating Hellenization, that enthralled Satan. In these last days/end times, the exact same thing will happen, after the Jews repent (1/3 or 3-5 million Repent) they start worshiping God/Jesus in the Temple and the High Priest of Israel thus FORBIDS Jesus Worship, he stops the Sacrifice !!! The Sacrifice is Jesus mt=y friend, not a eat Sacrifice which would mean the temple was still defiled in and of itself. The temple is cleansed, thus t can then once again be DEFILED, you can not defile that which is already defiled !! Humble yourself brother, its OK to learn from other people.

The 6 Requirements MUST ALL BE FULFILLED before the 70th week ends. This is not that complex brother. Rabbit holes come because of misconceptions.

On 7/17/2022 at 1:06 AM, Charlie744 said:

On 7/17/2022 at 12:02 AM, Revelation Man said:

Daniel wrote all of these chapters, he Capitalizes Jesus as Messiah the Prince in Dan. 9:25 and 26 and in Dan. 8:25 he capitalizes the Prince of princes, but you want me to believe the prince that is to come is the same Messiah and he doesn't capitalize his name?

Not worth answering!!

i.e. DESTROYED, thus can't answer, slowly sinks in. 

On 7/17/2022 at 1:06 AM, Charlie744 said:

This is a perfect example of how you conduct yourself … I have seen this a million times where you direct this terrible, insecure and ignorant rant against fellow members in this forum.... I do not know what your parents did to you but I will pray for you....

So, quoting Paul telling men they should be what they are called and all have a different calling is ALL THAT ABOVE? SMILE. You clearly are nit called unto Prophecy brother. 

On 7/17/2022 at 1:06 AM, Charlie744 said:

After this message, I will "block" you from all posts / messages, etc. but I will  continue to pray for you.... Best wishes, Charlie

On 7/17/2022 at 12:02 AM, Revelation Man said:

I will do the same, you present the Bible Prophesy to people WRONGLY then get "offended" when you get called out for doing it. Good thing the early Church was not like you because Paul chastised them often. When you put forth wrong understandings wh9ch are obviously in error, people are going to correct you. B the way, I have ignored your posts for awhile, not worth the effort tbh, but I only called out the fact that anyone that I reply to YOU LIKE, its kind of funny tbh.

God Bless, when you get to Heaven and find out almost EVERYTHING you taught about Prophesy was wrong, a lightbulb will then go off and you will see the inscription Rev Man Told Me flashing in big red neon letters.

[Retrobyter]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You are correct in your assumption, it is zero value to me because the Papacy has zero to do with this Prophesy. The Little Horn will be just like the other 6 Beast Heads a Gentile King who has Dominion over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region, its that simple. 

Shalom, Revelation Man.

If @Charlie744 has indeed blocked your posts, then you are talking to the wall!

You DO know that the "Holy See" (the Vatican) is considered a nation by itself, right? It is even considered a separate country by the European Union and the United Nations. If so, then it only follows that its head, the Pope, is its leader and since he, too, is a Gentile (a non-Jew), then he falls into the category of a "Gentile king" who has a say over Israel, since the Roman Catholic Church has authority over the churches built in Israel and the properties upon which they are built. Furthermore, the "Christian quarter" of the Old City of Jerusalem is also controlled by them! So, doesn't the Pope qualify as "a Gentile King who has Dominion over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region?" Something to think about.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy (Little Horn/A.C./The European Union President who orders the False Prophet or Jewish High Priest to STOP Jesus Worship on other words he stops THE SACRIFICE from being Worshiped. The Church is in Heaven by this time, if you got the Raptures timing right you would not go down this Rabbit Hole) , also he(A.C.) shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself  in his heart(Demands to be Worshiped as a god, he can no claim to BE  God if He blasphemes the REAL God as Rev. 17 says he does. BOOM), and by peace shall destroy many:(The A.C./and E.U. get Israel to join the E.U.) he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (Jesus the Son of God or God the Redeemer); (Capital P.....YES) but he(A.C.) shall be broken without hand (By the PRESENCE of Jesus' coming).

Hold it right there. Daniel 8 is NOT about some future "antichrist" figure! It is PLAINLY about Antiochus IV "Epiphanes." Look at it again: Belshazzar was a co-regent of Babylon who died around 539 B.C. when the city was taken by the Persians. According to the AmazingBibleTimeline.com blog, "Belshazzar began acting as regent in the absence of his father around 553 B.C." So, his third year would be from 551 to 550 B.C.

Daniel 8:1-27 (KJV)

1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first. 

DANIEL'S VISION DESCRIBED
2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai. 3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before (on this side of) the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last. 4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.

5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. 6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. 7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand. 8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 

 

DANIEL'S VISION EXPLAINED
13 Then I heard one saint (holy one) speaking, and another saint (holy one) said unto that certain saint which spake,

"How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?"

14 And he said unto me,

"Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said,

"Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision."

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me,

"Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision."

18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. 19 And he (Gabriel) said,

"Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

20 "The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king (Alexander the Great). 22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms (according to KimMillerConcernedChristians.com, Alexander the Great’s Cassander ruled Greece; Lysimachus ruled Thrace; Seleucus I Nicator ruled Mesopotamia and Iran; and Ptolemy I ruled Levant and Egypt: 4 Successors),  shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.

23 "And in the latter time of their kingdom (toward the end of the Seleucid Empire), when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. (Antiochus IV Epiphanes) 24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. (He was killed by disease while in Persia.)

26 "And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days."

27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

This vision was in seen by Daniel in 551-550 B.C. However, Antiochus IV didn't reign until 175-164 B.C. just under 400 years later!

This is still prophecy, but it's prophecy FULFILLED! It's no longer going to be fulfilled. It's now there as a teaching tool to show that God DOES fulfill His prophecies!

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course you do not understand it, anyone that cries our Papacy and the Pope no matter how evil the leaders of the RCC may or may not be are simply not called unto Prophecy.

WRONG, he is CUT OFF after 69 weeks really after 62 weeks via that Prophecy which only started AFTER the Wall had been rebuilt. But after 62 PLUS 7 thus he DIES after exactly 69 weeks of 7s which of course equals 483 years. Do you know what CUT OFF means? Look it up, it means sacrificial death. 

Dan.9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

After 7 weeks the Wall is Rebuilt PLUS 62 Weeks, Jesus DIES (or is CUT OFF), not Jesus goes into Jordan to get baptized !! 

My English Hebrew Massoretic version

Daniyel 9:26 And after 310 threescore 8346 and two 8147 weeks 7620 shall Mäšîåç מָשִׁיחַ 4899 be cut off, 3772 z8735 but not x369 for himself: and the people 5971 of the prince 5057 that shall come 935 z8802 shall destroy 7843 z8686 the city 5892 and the sanctuary; 6944 and the end 7093 thereof [shall be] with a flood, 7858 and unto x5704 the end 7093 of the war 4421 desolations 8074 z8802 are determined. 2782 z8737

#3772 כָּרַת karath {kaw-rath'}

 a primitive root; TWOT - 1048; v
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) to cut, cut off, cut down, cut off a body part, cut out, eliminate,
    kill, cut a covenant
    1a) (Qal)
        1a1) to cut off
             1a1a) to cut off a body part, behead
        1a2) to cut down
        1a3) to hew
        1a4) to cut or make a covenant
—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication to destroy or consume; specifically to covenant (that is, make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces):—be chewed, be con- [feder-] ate, covenant, cut (down, off), destroy, fail, feller, be freed, hew (down), make a league ([covenant]),.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

 

#0369 אַיִן 'ayin {ah'-yin}

 as if from a primitive root meaning to be nothing or not exist;
    TWOT - 81; subst n neg adv w/prep
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
 

As if from a primitive root meaning to be nothing or not exist; a non-entity; generally used as a negative particle:—else, except, fail [father-] less, be gone, in [-curable], neither, never, no (where), none, nor (any, thing), not, nothing, to nought, past, un [-searchable], well-nigh, without, Compare H0370.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

So, its quite evident this is referring to Jesus DYING not going out in Jordan and starting his Ministry then going firth with that Ministry for 3.5 years !! Its just a nonsensical addition my brother. You are fudging things to make it fit, that is a NO-NO.

The messenger didn't say to Daniy'eel "Vayhiy miqtseeh hashshaaVu`iym shishshiym uwshnayim yikkaareet Mashiyach." He said, "V'achareey hashshaaVu`iym shishshiym uwshnayim yikkaareet Mashiyach! "

In translation, he didn't say to Daniel, "And-it-happened at-the-end of-the-Weeks sixty and-two shall-be-cut-off Messiah." He said, "And-AFTER the-Weeks sixty and-two shall-be-cut-off Messiah."

We KNOW that "yikkaareet Mashiyach" means "shall-be-cut-off Messiah" and that it refers to His death; HOWEVER, it is just as clear that it happens AFTER the 62 Weeks, NOT "AT THE END OF" the 62 Weeks! Look at the REST of verse 26!

Daniel 9:26 (KJV)

26 "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Clearly, these additional facts stated in the prophecy occur AFTER the 62 Weeks just as much as the Messiah being cut off does. So, we are seeing events happening AFTER the first 69 Weeks. Normally, one would conclude that puts these events in the 70th Week.

Now, some will say that these are occurring in the "gap that follows after the 69th Week and before the 70th Week," but what gives ANYONE the RIGHT ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES to put a "GAP" between these groups of years?! This is a hurdle any pre-trib rapturist must answer! As far as I can see, it's an INSURMOUNTABLE HURDLE! Like trying to "leap tall buildings in a single bound!"

Give me ONE GOOD REASON FROM SCRIPTURE for a gap between the 69th Week and the 70th Week!

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

God needs us to read and believe, not to shift around His facts in order to reach "our facts". So, I understand the Messiah being CUT OFF is him DYING, but after the 62 plus 7 weeks, not after 62 plus 7 plus 3.5 years !! I actually understand how it is added up brother.

Let me put it to you in mathematical terms: "After" means ">". "At the end of" means "=".  You're trying to say, that Yeshua`s death (D) ...

D = 62 Weeks + 7 Weeks
D = 69 Weeks,

but the Scriptures are actually saying, 

D > 62 Weeks + 7 Weeks
D > 69 Weeks.

We know that this 70 Weeks  = 70 x 7 Years = 490 Years "from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem".
We also know from measuring it out in Jewish years of Jewish months, that the first 69 Weeks = 7 Weeks + 62 Weeks = 7 x 7 Years + 62 x 7 Years = 483 Years, and this measures to be Yeshua`s 30th year of life when He is declared to be the Messiah of God, the One Anointed by God to be Israel's King (not His cleansing in a miqvaah, such as a deep part in the Jordan River!), putting His birth at the 64.714285th Week over all or the 57.714285th Week of the 62 Weeks. Therefore, the END of His life at age 33-1/2, would extend BEYOND the 62 Weeks! That means He died either in the "GAP" between the 69th Week and the 70th Week, OR He died within the 70th Week, half-way through the 70th Week, at that!

Yeshua` was born about 6 B.C., since we know that Herod the Great, who died in 4 B.C., died AFTER He was born and He was at least a year old, based on the time when Herod the Great killed the babies in and around Beit-Lechem ("Bethlehem"), trying to kill the young "King of the Jews" before He could become a legitimate threat to his throne! He killed the children 2 years old and under. There's no year ZERO (0); the numbers jump from 1 B.C. (1 year before Christ) to 1 A.D. (1 Anno Domini, Latin for "the First Year of-the-Lord"). Furthermore, we know that Jewish ages were counted as "1" at the time of birth! This is because of the 40-week gestation period of human beings being a little more than 3/4 of a year.

2 = 5 BC-4 BC, 3 = 4 BC-3 BC, 4 = 3 BC-2 BC, 5 = 2 BC-1 BC, 6 = 1 BC-1 AD,
7 =  1 AD-2 AD, 8 = 2 AD-3 AD, 9 = 3 AD-4 AD, 10 = 4 AD-5 AD, 11 = 5 AD-6 AD,
12 = 6 AD-7 AD, 13 = 7 AD-8 AD, 14 = 8 AD- 9 AD, 15 = 9 AD-10 AD, 16 = 10 AD-11 AD,
17 = 11 AD-12 AD, 18 = 12 AD-13 AD, 19 = 13 AD-14 AD, 20 = 14 AD-15 AD,
21 = 15 AD-16 AD, 22 = 16 AD-17 AD, 23 = 17 AD-18 AD, 24 = 18 AD-19 AD, 
25 = 19 AD-20 AD, 26 = 20 AD-21 AD, 27 = 21 AD-22 AD, 28 = 22 AD-23 AD,
29 = 23 AD-24 AD, 30 = 24 AD-25 AD.

According to Luke 3, this was when Yeshua` began His "earthly minisry" offering God's Kingdom to the Jews as God's Messiah, His Anointed to be His Selection for King.

Luke 3:1-9, 21-22ff (KJV)

1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar (October 20, 27 AD - October 9, 28 AD), Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene, 2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; 4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying,

"The voice of one crying in the wilderness,

"'Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.' 

5 "Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God."

7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him,

"O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, 'We have Abraham to our father': for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham! 9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."

...

21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said,

"Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."

23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, ...

He was just beginning to be 30 years old.

Thus,
His first year of ministry was 24 AD to 25 AD,
His second year was 25 AD to 26 AD and
His third year was 26 to the fall of 27 AD. The rest of His time in ministry was from the fall of 27 AD to the spring of 28 AD.

I show that midway through the 70th Week, according to verse 27, the household of the Jews is left DESOLATE, as predicted in Matthew 23:38 by none other than the Messiah Yeshua` Himself! And, He did this just a day or two before His crucifixion!

THIS is why there is indeed a "gap" in the counting of the 70 Weeks, but it occurs between the two halves of the 70th Week, NOT between the 69th and 70th Weeks!

Furthermore, based on the lunar calendars for the years 28 to 34 A.D., Yeshua`s crucifixion would have been on Thursday, April 29, 28 A.D., when the lambs were being slain for the Passover the following day, beginning as sunset. Thus, there were no days in between the Passover on the Sixth Day, and the regular Weekly Shabbat on the Seventh Day! The Passover that year was a "High Sabbath" day; that is, a day of Sabbath over and above the regular weekly Sabbath. And, Yeshua` was rightly said to be in the ground for THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS, which is BACKWARDS to Jewish thinking, which counts the "evening and the morning as a day." Jews count days from sundown to sundown, the full night and then the full day!

In a Jewish month of 29.5 days per month, the full moon is always on the night between the 14th and the 15th of the month. In 28 A.D., the 15th of Nisan was on a Thursday, if the first day of Nisan was delayed by cloud cover (which is common in late winter, early spring).

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Yes, I destroy all wrong assumptions via the Sword of Truth. Amen, it is what we are supposed to do, as ordered by God, Work out the truths via the Word of God, not via the Word of men.

Oh, get over yourself! You're not God!

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

and the people of the prince (Rome/Europe, not Titus per se in that the leader/king here is not pertinent because we are being told whom the coming Anti-Christs people were...Europeans)that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Okay, NOW you're backtracking and calling the "prince" someone other than Titus. That's to be expected, but it most certainly WAS Titus who later became Emperor, because ROME was the "people of the prince" who "destroyed the city and the sanctuary" in 70 A.D., with a 40-year probation period (29 A.D. to 69 A.D.) between 28 A.D. and 70 A.D. whereby the believers could be warned to flee before the Day of God's Wrath was unleashed in 70 A.D.!

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

27 And he (SMALL h the prince that shall come was a SMALL p) shall confirm(this is the Hebrew word GABAR meaning he ACTS INSOLENTLY, did you know that? Jesus is NOT Insolent)  the covenant(Agreement, ONE WORD has you all conflated, Covenant in Hebrew simply means Agreement) with many(Many Nations are deceived not just Israel) for one week(7 years): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease(The A.C. gets the False Prophet, Jewish High Priest to FORBID Jesus Worship AFTER the Jews have Repented, see Zechariah 13:8-9), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

First, again, there's no such thing as "small letters" or "capital letters" in Hebrew!

Second, "gabar" does NOT mean "he ACTS INSOLENTLY!" "Vhigbiyr" means "and-he-shall-strengthen." It begins with the vav-connective, usually translated as "and." The rest of the word is a verb in the Hifil perfect tense in the 3rd-person, masculine, singular form of the word. Yeshua` DID strengthen the DAVIDIC COVENANT! Gabriel prophesied the Davidic Covenant to Mary just before Yeshua`s Conception! And, it was YHWH GOD HIMSELF who said, "Thou art my beloved Son!" This, too, was found in the Davidic Covenant! "I shall be His Father, and He shall be my Son!"

Third, the "prince who shall come" is the OBJECT OF THE PREPOSITION "OF!" As such, this "prince" CANNOT be the antecedent of the verbs in verse 27!

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

What does Satan love more than anything? He loves the opposite of God, he loves to defile that which is God's. Thus when Satan got Jason(TYPE False Prophet) to welcome in the Greek King Antiochus Epiphanes(TYPE Anti-Christ) into the temple of God to make a sacrificial offering on God's Altar, and ten got a decree from Jason mandating Hellenization, that enthralled Satan. In these last days/end times, the exact same thing will happen, after the Jews repent (1/3 or 3-5 million Repent) they start worshiping God/Jesus in the Temple and the High Priest of Israel thus FORBIDS Jesus Worship, he stops the Sacrifice !!! The Sacrifice is Jesus mt=y friend, not a eat Sacrifice which would mean the temple was still defiled in and of itself. The temple is cleansed, thus t can then once again be DEFILED, you can not defile that which is already defiled !! Humble yourself brother, its OK to learn from other people.

The 6 Requirements MUST ALL BE FULFILLED before the 70th week ends. This is not that complex brother. Rabbit holes come because of misconceptions.

i.e. DESTROYED, thus can't answer, slowly sinks in. 

So, quoting Paul telling men they should be what they are called and all have a different calling is ALL THAT ABOVE? SMILE. You clearly are nit called unto Prophecy brother. 

I will do the same, you present the Bible Prophesy to people WRONGLY then get "offended" when you get called out for doing it. Good thing the early Church was not like you because Paul chastised them often. When you put forth wrong understandings wh9ch are obviously in error, people are going to correct you. B the way, I have ignored your posts for awhile, not worth the effort tbh, but I only called out the fact that anyone that I reply to YOU LIKE, its kind of funny tbh.

God Bless, when you get to Heaven and find out almost EVERYTHING you taught about Prophesy was wrong, a lightbulb will then go off and you will see the inscription Rev Man Told Me flashing in big red neon letters.

Man, you have TOO MUCH PRIDE in your life!

[Charlie744]

On 7/16/2022 at 11:00 PM, Charlie744 said:

 

I just started to read your response and I felt  a need to ask you a question or two regarding the following passage of yours (didn't want to lose the thought);

God gave the children of Israel in the wilderness a time of 40 years of wandering, signifying testing or probation! The same is true for the 40 years of testing after the Messiah was crucified before the destruction in 70 A.D. came true!

First, I absolutely love this thought and if you do not mind, I had thought of this also but I wanted to try and reconcile the 40 years between the two periods before I was comfortable with the interpretation.

Secondly, do you think there is any value in the thought that:

1) except for Caleb and Joshua, everyone in that generation would never see the promised land... same results for the Jews that lived at the time of Christ?

2) I do not know the specific tribes that Caleb and Joshua represented but they were only the two who would live and go into the promised land. Do you think there is any connection / relationship / type these two might have to the Judah and Benjamin two tribes that were not dispersed? 

During my study of Daniel, I am completely convinced there is not ONE sign of coincidence, accident or randomness or any word, letter, etc., that is not necessary and required within His plan of salvation. Doesn't mean I am able to find them but I know they are there!

If you get a chance, let me know your thoughts.. now I will continue reading your response, Charlie

 

 

Thanks again for your response. I felt a strong sense of "hey this might be a good thought - regarding the relationship of the 40 years in the desert to the 40 years after the Cross to 70 AD....

As I mentioned to you I could not make the math work and also, I mentioned that God does NOT do coincidences and everything in the scriptures does connect together like a weaved fabric - somehow, someway if we can find it.

Anyway, I could not let this go again since you brought it back up the other day.

So let me run something by you that MIGHT work without trying to use a crowbar to "force or fit" this in to the 40 year relationship;

1) First, I think everyone might agree the EXACT date of the birth of Jesus is in question... some say 4 BC etc.,

2) Second, we know Jesus could not have become a Priest or Rabbi unless He reached 30 years old,

3) His ministry lasted 3.5 years ,

4) God does not do coincidences and He could have selected ANY year the Temple was destroyed by Titus -68 AD, 75 AD.... but exactly at 70 AD? Again, no such thing as coincidence!!!!!!

5) If we stop there and adjust the timing error without altering any other time element - 30 years old, 3.5 years ministry, 70 AD destruction, etc., I would say we have the 40....

6) Also, and this is just another thought although I am getting more comfortable with the above ..... however, is it true the Israelite were in the desert for 40 years BUT 2 years of that time had passed to the point of them spying on the promised land?  In other words, I don't think God added 40 to the 2 but only 38 to the 2 to get 40?

Look forward to your thoughts, Charlie

 

 

 

[Charlie744]

5 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks again for your response. I felt a strong sense of "hey this might be a good thought - regarding the relationship of the 40 years in the desert to the 40 years after the Cross to 70 AD....

As I mentioned to you I could not make the math work and also, I mentioned that God does NOT do coincidences and everything in the scriptures does connect together like a weaved fabric - somehow, someway if we can find it.

Anyway, I could not let this go again since you brought it back up the other day.

So let me run something by you that MIGHT work without trying to use a crowbar to "force or fit" this in to the 40 year relationship;

1) First, I think everyone might agree the EXACT date of the birth of Jesus is in question... some say 4 BC etc.,

2) Second, we know Jesus could not have become a Priest or Rabbi unless He reached 30 years old,

3) His ministry lasted 3.5 years ,

4) God does not do coincidences and He could have selected ANY year the Temple was destroyed by Titus -68 AD, 75 AD.... but exactly at 70 AD? Again, no such thing as coincidence!!!!!!

5) If we stop there and adjust the timing error without altering any other time element - 30 years old, 3.5 years ministry, 70 AD destruction, etc., I would say we have the 40....

6) Also, and this is just another thought although I am getting more comfortable with the above ..... however, is it true the Israelite were in the desert for 40 years BUT 2 years of that time had passed to the point of them spying on the promised land?  In other words, I don't think God added 40 to the 2 but only 38 to the 2 to get 40?

Look forward to your thoughts, Charlie

 

 

 

Oh, I forgot to mention another thing.... and this is also to show God is not interested in coincidences.... there is something in the bible that speaks about an "evil generation" (need to find it), but isn't a generation equal to 40 years?