Revelation and the meaning (so-called) of 666

[tim_from_pa]

15 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Do you know if this relates to Washington D(emon) C.?

I don't know what this book says as I did not read it, but I do know from my own studies that the major eastern coastal cities seem to lie on or close to that line pointing to Israel and I once called it "the line of Israel"  The cities that lie on or very close to this line is New Orleans, Atlanta, Washington DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, NYC and Boston. There's some esoteric stuff I heard with these groups like the Masons and other NWO stuff, etc that things like this happened deliberately.  Again, this is the topic of ley lines.  I just find them fascinating from a mathematical perspective but there has to be a reason as it seems much of this stuff would not happen by mere chance.

 

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

It would be appropriate to have 2thess. In here as well. It would seem that the height of the great tribulation is defined by the revealing of the wicked one who will be knowingly worshipped by the unsaved ( they do it now but mostly in a blind manner). 

That's what the devil wants. That's what God will allow. Then cometh the end, when our Saviour will destroy him  "with the brightness of His coming"  (2Thess. 2:8).

We are at the point in time where we can observe what side everyone is choosing. 

Yes. Maybe any study of the Beast should include him being vanquished in the end. What do you think of Revelation 13:7? The saints on earth will be "overcome" by the Beast. Even the Two Witnesses of Chapter 11 are overcome by the Beast.

[tatwo]

On 10/8/2022 at 12:54 PM, Walter Goraj jr said:

As believers we can take great comfort in knowing that God will keep us from all that will come to pass. 

Hi Walter,

Can you explain how God will keep us from all that will come to pass?

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 10/2/2022 at 5:26 PM, AdHoc said:

If you take the time you will see that each of your scriptures address the INDIVIDUAL and his relationship with the Lord, or the INDIVIDUAL Holy Spirit's activities. Not one said that His Body is a corporate spirit. And, you should have dealt with my proffered verse because all you have done now is pitted scripture against scripture - instead of reconciling it.

AdHoc…much of what you do and how…is amazing…opens my eyes to new learning’s…thank you. I am no one…really…but FWIW I urge you to be more open to what WilliamL has been showing you here concerning the “Body of Christ and its Spirit.” It is in the area of the understanding of the “Spirit” that I feel you may have a need for light. This is just based upon the interactions you and I have shared.

WilliamL’s point about the “one Spirit”…is both scripturally and spiritually indisputable…it is a fundamental truth…and his comment “I think you cherry pick the verses that suit you, and ignore those that don't” in this instance it fits…both are well under your character and level of experience & knowledge.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 10/8/2022 at 3:35 PM, AdHoc said:

Yes. Maybe any study of the Beast should include him being vanquished in the end. What do you think of Revelation 13:7? The saints on earth will be "overcome" by the Beast. Even the Two Witnesses of Chapter 11 are overcome by the Beast.

Mind if I but in…I may be able to shed some light on this subject. Here I am only going to deal with the saints being overcome by the beast...and in that...only a brief touch.

It took me many years and much help from the Lord Yahshua and a couple of Brothers to come up with what I believe is a reasonable glimpse into a reality that is becoming more evident as the days pass by. There will be many things I simply cannot explain…here…due to the amount of detail involving other areas of this revelation and research. 

I see the beast overcoming the saints as an ideological based victory…by an authority expressed in and over the kosmos…Satan’s darkness…only. Simply put…what I call the “Urgent Gospel” of the last days is not the popular message for the masses both in our day today and the days to come. I am not saying there won’t be any evangelism…and I am not saying there won’t be any death in this war…of course there will be those of us who will die…remember…we aren’t in love with ourselves; we are willing to die for Christ.  

However it would seem that the “overcoming” we are looking at…is…the battle for the souls of men. So naturally Satan’s plan for “overcoming the saints” is going to be aimed at trying to get the saints to worship him. To do that Satan needs to deceive the saints…notice that it is the “horn” of Dan 7:20 & 21 that makes war with the saints and overcomes them.  

These horns on the beast in one sense seem to project the power of the beast…as horns on beasts typically do. Yet in another sense…and this is interesting…in Daniel the word for “horn” is literally “horn or coronet”…you know…an instrument that makes a unique sound.

“I saw the same horn was making war against the saints and prevailing against them” (Daniel 7:21).  

Daniel seems to choose to distinguish between the fourth beast, which was crushing, trampling down, and devouring humanity in general…and this “horn” that displaces three other horns and was greater than the others…which are the means by which the beast waged war against the saints and the means by which he prevailed against them. This is a very important distinction because we typically consolidate the two. We say that the beast will trample down the saints, crush the saints, and will devour the saints.

It is the horn, whatever it is (meaning, I have not unpacked it yet), it is the instrument of the beast that wages war against the saints. Why is this significant? Because, the manner in which he wages war is described in the very nature of the horn. 

The term for “horn” here may indicate a horn on the head of an animal, which projects the power of that animal. In the picture of this beast, the horn is a projection of its power. But in this horn, the word qeren1 in the Hebrew, it is literally a horn or, figuratively, a cornet, a trumpet.  

It is clearly true that the secondary reading is the more accurate one. Why? Because, textually, we just read where Daniel was told that this fourth beast is a fourth kingdom.  

Though it is presented as this massively powerful, global dominating beast, it is not a horn in the domestic reference to a horn. It is a sound. It is a trumpet sound, a cornet. It is something that announces a particular sound.  

So the war with the saints...and this accounts for why he can defeat the saints...is a clash of cultures. It is a sound that is blasphemous. It is undercutting divine culture, replacing divine culture with a lie.  

It is a lie that plays to the fears of mankind so thoroughly that he is able to devour them with consuming fear. And whoever opposes him, whoever opposes this beast, will encounter the formulated power of the lie. 

What do I mean by the formulated power of the lie? He builds entire systems to control mankind based upon their fear of being without provision and without protection. Whoever does not subscribe to his systemic kingdom will be crushed and devoured by the power of exclusion...where you will be excluded. 

So, it means that the saints have their own Kingdom.

And, indeed, these two kingdoms are presented in juxtaposition. This destructive kingdom, typified by this great beast with iron teeth and bronze claws, and dreadful, and terrible, and all the rest, that has ten horns, and one that overthrows three others.  

This, to me, is the indication that this is a religious horn, because it has to speak the philosophy of this kingdom. Any kingdom, by the way, first and foremost, exists to put on display the nature and the character of its king.  

Going forward in the reading from Revelation 13, we will see a reference to how Satan, that ancient serpent, gave his power, his throne, and great authority to this beast. Inasmuch as it is a metaphorical reference to a beast, practically, it is an arrangement designed to put on display the one whose power it projects, and that is none other than Satan. We know what Satan’s kingdom looks like. 

I want to speak a little bit more on the matter of this horn waging war against the saints and prevailing against them. Listen, in this war for the civilization, for the hearts and minds of mankind, this cultural war, the more popular view will not be the Kingdom of God view. Why? Because the philosophy of the beast was designed to capture the souls of men in regards to the things they most commonly fear.

If I have a next time I will explain how Satan (Beast) captures human beings via fear.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

A Look at the Horn and Humanity pt.2

The philosophy of the beast was designed to capture the souls of men in regards to the things they most commonly fear. Let’s see if I can  briefly explain how Satan captures human beings via fear. 

God made the human being to have three components of being:

1.   A spirit, which is pneuma;

2.   A soul, which is psuché;

3.   A body, which is sarx. 

All three of these aspects of being are referred to at once in 1 Thessalonians 5:23, where Paul said, “I pray that you may be presented, at the coming of our Lord, blameless. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be presented blameless at the coming of the Lord.” 

In these three components of being, each one has a life in it that is capable of sustaining that aspect of being. 

•   The highest order of being is the spirit, and the life within the spirit is called zoë. Now that life is not derived from or sustained by anything in creation. That is the life of God that is available to sustain the human spirit.

•   The life within the soul is called psuché. The soul is also called psuché. We get the term “psychology” from it. The life within the psuché is derived from observation, analysis, synthesis, and theory...the scientific method. God gave humankind the ability to function in the earth to translate the wisdom of the heavens that comes into the being through the zoë life of God. It comes into the spirit, is filtered through the soul, and is projected through the body. That is when the human being is in perfect, divinely arranged order.

•   The body, the sarx, has a life in it that is called bios, and the study of which is biology... the logic of the bios. 

Humans take in impulses through the five senses. These impulses have the capability of affecting the person uniquely, depending on who the person is, and what their prior experiences have been, what their family lives are, and all of that…your life’s experience. 

The soul assigns an emotional quotient to these impulses taken in through the five senses. So, for example, a sound, a sight, a vision, a smell, all these come within context that are unique to the being’s experience.  

For a simple example…when I was a young man…my mom would make chocolate chip cookies. Whenever I would smell those cookies baking I would get so excited about eating one of those cookies. Even so today…when my wife or daughter makes these cookies…I am taken back to the fond memory of those days of excited anticipation as a kid. 

So…if experiences come in the context that threatens the life of the human being, the soul assigns an emotion of fear, to it. 

When the enemy comes to attack a person, he uses the understanding of how the soul is going to respond to a particular external influence. He knows that the soul is going to respond in a certain way if the external influence is of a certain nature or kind.  

He will often use other human beings as perpetrators of these things, to stir up the emotions of the soul, which he knows predictably are going to be those emotions of the soul. He cannot read your mind, but he does know how you are going to respond, and he does have some level of control over the influences he stirs up in your environment.

When this great beast wages war against the saints, it is going to be a war that draws upon all of the power of the enemy concerning the soul of man. You can anticipate that in that time (and it actually says it in the Scriptures), wave upon wave of things threatening the human being will cause such a degree of fear to blanket the earth…that even the word of God is not going to have the same redemptive effect on mankind as the power of the deception of the lie is going to have.  

We know that because it says that not many will actually be justified in that day. Compared to the broad way that leads to destruction and many who walk on it, the way of righteousness and peace will be narrow, and few there will be who find it. 

In this conflict, this horn is speaking, and he is speaking blasphemous things: lies, deceptions, falsehoods, alternative truths, and alternative facts. Isn’t it astonishing that we live in the time when lying is the order of the day, and you cannot depend even on leaders? I am not talking about any particular party, or I am not even talking uniquely about politics. It is about business...science...and it is about political leaders.

We are at a time when, but for the discerning of the spirit, you do not know what the truth is. We are already at that time.

This is the manner in which the enemy will wage war against the saints, and compared to the success of the saints in speaking to humankind, the message of hope and salvation, he will prevail against us. The message of the enemy will prevail against us, and the lie will appear to be the truth.

Now, does that mean that he will crush and devour us? No…because his systems cannot trap and contain us. We are destined to overcome him, because God is even now taking us up to a level of trust in whom He actually is. That is the only certainty with which we will be granted immunity from the oppression of this great beast...who is currently building a global kingdom here at the end of the age.

Tatwo...:)

[WilliamL]

On 10/8/2022 at 8:23 AM, AdHoc said:

Some scriptures designating the Beast as a man, king and a "he" (all singular male). I am perplexed that they were were unknown to you.

Daniel 9:27

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 13:2

And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Etc.

All fully known to me, and not a one conclusively supports your claim. Daniel 9:27 doesn't mention a beast at all. Rev. 13:2 and similar verses using "he" don't mention the Beast being a man at all. You just presume it.

And even more damning for your argument, in Rev. 13:1 -- "upon his heads" -- the Greek is literally neuter -- "its heads."

The fact is that both Satan and angels, which are spirits, are often spoken of in "he/his/him" terms, and they are not men. So your argument falls apart.

[WilliamL]

On 10/8/2022 at 8:23 AM, AdHoc said:

May the reader judge if these scriptures say that the Church is a "collective spirit".

You will not acknowledge, nor address 1st Corinthians 6:15a ...

15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ?

Christ's body is presently a spiritual body. Jesus is in heaven, where there are no physical bodies. Now if we skip down to verse 17, we find what you omitted:

1 Cor. 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

[AdHoc]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:45 AM, tatwo said:

AdHoc…much of what you do and how…is amazing…opens my eyes to new learning’s…thank you. I am no one…really…but FWIW I urge you to be more open to what WilliamL has been showing you here concerning the “Body of Christ and its Spirit.” It is in the area of the understanding of the “Spirit” that I feel you may have a need for light. This is just based upon the interactions you and I have shared.

WilliamL’s point about the “one Spirit”…is both scripturally and spiritually indisputable…it is a fundamental truth…and his comment “I think you cherry pick the verses that suit you, and ignore those that don't” in this instance it fits…both are well under your character and level of experience & knowledge.

Tatwo...:)

I hear you brother. There is no end to the falleness of a man.

May I just say, in my pitiful defense, that when our Lord introduced the Church in Matthew 16, He connected it with only two things. (1) The keys of the Kingdom, and (2) the Gates of Hades. If we trace point number (2) from then on, we find that the body of a man is what makes a member of Christ's Body. This gives the resurrection a powerful position in the building of the Church. The Gates of Hades present the simple but immovable obstacle to Christ building His Church because as long as men's souls are in this prison, He cannot build His Church. This state of affairs is confirmed that in John Chapter 2, our Lord Jesus not only said that His BODY was the Temple of His Father, but that it needed to be raised for this purpose. That is, Christ's physical Body is the center of the New Testament.
- His Body is the Seed of the woman
- His Body is the Temple of God
- His BODY is corporately the Church by the added member's BODIES
- His Church, made of BODIES is God's guarantee of glory through the coming ages
- It is our BODIES that need resurrection to be fit for the coming Kingdom.

I am well aware of the scriptures which connect the spirit with the Church. To these I say the following:

1st Peter 2:4-5 calls the Church a "spiritual House" - NOT because its substance is Spirit, but because it had its ORIGIN by the Spirit (Jn.20:22), its gifts for the building are spiritual (1st Cr.12), and the power for building is by the Holy Spirit (Acts.2). The MEMBERS of the Church are BODIES though - the "stones". It is called "Church" because it is an Assembly of BODIES. Once a Christian dies, the Church suffers loss and if our Lord Jesus did not have power over the keys of the Gates of Hades, His Church would not be built.

1st Corinthians 6:17 says that he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. But this is the individual's connection to the Lord. When a man is born again Christ enters and enlivens ONLY the human spirit (Jn.3:6, 14:20). When God entered the Tabernacle He dwelt in the Holy of Holies. This, in the Chapter before - 1st Corinthians 5 - the body of the incestuous brother is stopped to save the spirit. His sin is IN the body and nigh to the spirit. 1st Corinthians 6:17 relates to this very same thing - sex with a harlot. It does not address the "collective".

However, in light of your observations, I admit to defending my point too aggressively instead of setting forth the true meaning and letting the Holy Spirit give light - either to me, or the brother who I was contending with. WE are admonished in Jude to "earnestly contend" for the faith, but sometimes we get too "earnest".

[AdHoc]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:27 PM, WilliamL said:

All fully known to me, and not a one conclusively supports your claim. Daniel 9:27 doesn't mention a beast at all. Rev. 13:2 and similar verses using "he" don't mention the Beast being a man at all. You just presume it.

And even more damning for your argument, in Rev. 13:1 -- "upon his heads" -- the Greek is literally neuter -- "its heads."

The fact is that both Satan and angels, which are spirits, are often spoken of in "he/his/him" terms, and they are not men. So your argument falls apart.

 

On 10/12/2022 at 9:32 PM, WilliamL said:

Christ's body is presently a spiritual body. Jesus is in heaven, where there are no physical bodies. Now if we skip down to verse 17, we find what you omitted:

1 Cor. 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

A brother has observed that I too energetically defend my position. To this I agree. My answer to your two postings can be found in the posting before this. If you will agree, I will withdraw from this discussion. Nothing more can be said from my side. I'm happy if you have the last word. However, I'm sure we'll meet again on some other issue.

Go well brother.