what needs to happen for the end times to arrive ?

[Anne2]

On 8/26/2022 at 4:34 AM, Starise said:

Do we have a definite reference to it being the Jewish temple rebuilt? 

There are numerous temples all over where this man of lawlessness, son of perdition, anti christ could park himself. I remember reading references about the temple being rebuilt ( the Jewish temple ) but I wasn't sure if we could make a strong connection there.

Usually the rationale is that this son of perdition will be in the Holy land, so in order for him to sit on the throne in the "temple" and proclaim he is God the temple would necessarily need to be rebuilt.

Will another temple need to be rebuilt? There were coins minted by the Authority of ruling government in jerusalem, at the time of the bar kochba revolt. It shows the temple, with the arc of the covenant with his star sitting above it. The star is for proclamation of the prophecy 

Numbers 24:17  I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

Do you think it is possible that inscriptions and images could be what is spoken of? There is a Isreal bar kochba coin for 1968 which has the temple image but no star. But, could be added in a future coin.

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Anne2

[choir loft]

On 8/26/2022 at 12:03 AM, grumix8 said:

 

While people are saying, 'There is peace and security,' then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. (1 Thess 5:13)

Alas! For that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it" (Jeremiah 30:7)

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. (Matt 24:21)

A period of seven years is appointed for the time of Jacob's trouble.  

Is such a time appointed for our future or has it happened already?  

Indeed it has for on the night of November 9/10, 1938 the German government, led by Adolph Hitler, began an unrestricted campaign of terror and murder against God's Chosen People that is unmatched in history either before or since.  The night is called Crystal Night and is officially understood by Jewish people to be the beginning of the Holocaust - genocide of Jews anywhere a German flag was planted in Europe.

Terror and murder of Jews in Europe didn't end until the guns of battle fell silent in 1945 - A PERIOD OF SEVEN YEARS from 1938 to 1945.

those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again. (Mark 13:19)

A common misconception of the Biblical prediction of the Great Tribulation is that of A SECOND TRIBULATION against the Jews.   But as Jesus was quoted as saying in Mark 13:19 there would be ONLY ONE tribulation period.

Do Christians now hope for a second Holocaust?  If so they are showing an indecent degree of anti-semitism as well as deliberate denial of Our Savior's own words - IT WOULD ONLY HAPPEN ONCE.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited September 24, 2022 by choir loft

[Starise]

On 9/23/2022 at 7:08 PM, Anne2 said:

Do you think it is possible that inscriptions and images could be what is spoken of? There is a Isreal bar kochba coin for 1968 which has the temple image but no star. But, could be added in a future coin.

I would be overreaching if I said either yes or no, although I feel it probably isn't the temple or similar inscriptions as represented on a coin.

My feeling is that this will be a physical location where the anti-christ will sit. Many do not think the anti Christ will even be Jewish.

"If" the Jews are to accept him as thier supposed messiah, then it stands to reason he will sit in a  temple they approve of. After the first 3 1/2 years the anti-christ appears to 'turn' and show his true colors. Until that time most Jews will be fooled.

There is already an interfaith temple being built or maybe it is now complete. This temple will be a universalist multi faith apostate world center of religion, which is simply mumbo jumbo for a one world religion center emphasizing a one world religion mentality.

[Anne2]

18 hours ago, Starise said:

"If" the Jews are to accept him as thier supposed messiah, then it stands to reason he will sit in a  temple they approve of.

Bar kochba coins were approved of by the ruling Sanhedrin in Jerusalem. Bar Kochba was not the first one to have coins minted, Simon ben Giora did as well. He was proclaimed as redeemer while the temple yet stood, then subsequently destroyed.

Copy and paste from wiki: Invited in by the authorities in Jerusalem to get rid of someone else

"Within Jerusalem, John of Giscala had set himself up as a despotic ruler after overthrowing lawful authority of the Judean provisional government in the Zealot Temple Siege. In order to get rid of him, the remaining Jerusalem authorities decided to invite Simon to enter the city and to drive John away. Acclaimed by the people as their savior and guardian, Simon was admitted"

He was a really bad guy, killed alot of people in the city. Not letting anyone escape.

from wiki

"Within the city, factions fought vigorously over the control of Jerusalem, always trying to destroy each other's grain stores to starve each other into submission.^[14] This internal fighting later proved disastrous: not only was this a sabbatical year (with less grain available), but the city was under siege by the time the harvest began.^[17] Of the leaders of the rebellion, Simon in particular was regarded as a ruthless leader, who eventually ordered the execution of the High Priest Matthias ben Boethus and three of his sons, thinking that they were on the side of the Romans.^[18] The historian Josephus wrote that "Simon was a greater terror to the people than the Romans themselves."^[19] By his authority, coins were minted declaring the redemption of Zion."

"Like kings of other countries Simon was paraded through the streets of Rome in chains during the triumphal procession. Judged a rebel and a traitor by the Romans, he was executed by being thrown to his death from the Tarpeian Rock near the Temple of Jupiter.^[25]"

He startled the Roman soldiers when he came up from the subterranean tunnels of the temple, dressed as a Jewish king. He was attempting to dig himself out to escape starvation and capture. He ran out of time. The factions within Jerusalem had attempted early on to burn and destroy the food supplies of each other, to starve the other to submission.

Portrayed himself as a king

"In August 70, five months after the siege began, Jerusalem fell to Titus. Simon escaped into the subterranean passages of the Temple Mount. By means of stone cutters he tried to dig a way to freedom, but ran out of food before he could finish. Clothed in the garments of a Judean king he rose out of the ground at the very spot where the Temple had stood,^[22] was taken prisoner and brought to Rome, where he was imprisoned in Mamertine Prison"

And was treated by Rome as a King

"Like kings of other countries Simon was paraded through the streets of Rome in chains during the triumphal procession. Judged a rebel and a traitor by the Romans, he was executed by being thrown to his death from the Tarpeian Rock near the Temple of Jupiter".^[25]

So you have two, which had coins minted. One while the temple stood, the latter after it had been destroyed.

Just thinking on things which are past, maybe also future elements as well.

[Starise]

23 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Bar kochba coins were approved of by the ruling Sanhedrin in Jerusalem. Bar Kochba was not the first one to have coins minted, Simon ben Giora did as well. He was proclaimed as redeemer while the temple yet stood, then subsequently destroyed.

Copy and paste from wiki: Invited in by the authorities in Jerusalem to get rid of someone else

"Within Jerusalem, John of Giscala had set himself up as a despotic ruler after overthrowing lawful authority of the Judean provisional government in the Zealot Temple Siege. In order to get rid of him, the remaining Jerusalem authorities decided to invite Simon to enter the city and to drive John away. Acclaimed by the people as their savior and guardian, Simon was admitted"

He was a really bad guy, killed alot of people in the city. Not letting anyone escape.

from wiki

"Within the city, factions fought vigorously over the control of Jerusalem, always trying to destroy each other's grain stores to starve each other into submission.^[14] This internal fighting later proved disastrous: not only was this a sabbatical year (with less grain available), but the city was under siege by the time the harvest began.^[17] Of the leaders of the rebellion, Simon in particular was regarded as a ruthless leader, who eventually ordered the execution of the High Priest Matthias ben Boethus and three of his sons, thinking that they were on the side of the Romans.^[18] The historian Josephus wrote that "Simon was a greater terror to the people than the Romans themselves."^[19] By his authority, coins were minted declaring the redemption of Zion."

"Like kings of other countries Simon was paraded through the streets of Rome in chains during the triumphal procession. Judged a rebel and a traitor by the Romans, he was executed by being thrown to his death from the Tarpeian Rock near the Temple of Jupiter.^[25]"

He startled the Roman soldiers when he came up from the subterranean tunnels of the temple, dressed as a Jewish king. He was attempting to dig himself out to escape starvation and capture. He ran out of time. The factions within Jerusalem had attempted early on to burn and destroy the food supplies of each other, to starve the other to submission.

Portrayed himself as a king

"In August 70, five months after the siege began, Jerusalem fell to Titus. Simon escaped into the subterranean passages of the Temple Mount. By means of stone cutters he tried to dig a way to freedom, but ran out of food before he could finish. Clothed in the garments of a Judean king he rose out of the ground at the very spot where the Temple had stood,^[22] was taken prisoner and brought to Rome, where he was imprisoned in Mamertine Prison"

And was treated by Rome as a King

"Like kings of other countries Simon was paraded through the streets of Rome in chains during the triumphal procession. Judged a rebel and a traitor by the Romans, he was executed by being thrown to his death from the Tarpeian Rock near the Temple of Jupiter".^[25]

So you have two, which had coins minted. One while the temple stood, the latter after it had been destroyed.

Just thinking on things which are past, maybe also future elements as well.

I applaud your interest in history as to these things. 

There has always been a cyclical nature to events in world history and even in instances of the bible. There are archetypes and precursors.

I always do my best to look at both similarities and differences, if you are saying that this man was the AC, then I would say not enough prophecy lines up with him to be that person. I will admit to seeing many similarities to the AC.

I do not think the AC has already come.

[Anne2]

16 minutes ago, Starise said:

There has always been a cyclical nature to events in world history and even in instances of the bible. There are archetypes and precursors.

Yes, I agree. We are told in scripture many antichrists have already come. Precursors of sorts.

 

18 minutes ago, Starise said:

I always do my best to look at both similarities and differences, if you are saying that this man was the AC, then I would say not enough prophecy lines up with him to be that person. I will admit to seeing many similarities to the AC.

I believe he could have been one beast, of which revelation speaks of two in relation to each other. John did preach wrath was coming upon Israel, Jesus spoke of the temple's destruction.

 

21 minutes ago, Starise said:

I do not think the AC has already come.

I am not ruling out another antichrist myself. My point is what people are thinking "needs" to be. 

Mt 22:19  Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20  And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? {superscription: or, inscription }
21  They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
 

Maybe another temple does not need to be built is all.

Just for thought of what has been, and to not rule out that proclamations can be written, authorized etc. Images on coins are things which are also seen.

[tatwo]

4 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Yes, I agree. We are told in scripture many antichrists have already come. Precursors of sorts.

I believe he could have been one beast, of which revelation speaks of two in relation to each other. John did preach wrath was coming upon Israel, Jesus spoke of the temple's destruction.

I am not ruling out another antichrist myself. My point is what people are thinking "needs" to be. 

Mt 22:19  Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20  And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? {superscription: or, inscription }
21  They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
Maybe another temple does not need to be built is all.

Just for thought of what has been, and to not rule out that proclamations can be written, authorized etc. Images on coins are things which are also seen.

Anne2 & Starise,

I would like to ask some questions specifically about the topic of images on coins...

Anne2...can you go more into detail...and maybe you have...on your thoughts about "Images on coins are things which are also seen" in relationship the antichrist?

If this is not a good question...sorry...it just reminds of a time I was doing a study on the mark of the beast...the concept of inscription or imprint...came into the study and any connection to the temple...if any?

Tatwo...:)

[Dennis1209]

On 8/26/2022 at 6:54 AM, Starise said:

There is only the end of events which lead to other events. I understand the "end" times to be the times we are in now.

Probably most interpret the very end of times to be the seven trumpets and the seven bowls which kick off times like there never have been before. Such times are hard to explain away as having all already happened IMO.

So I see us in the end time leading up to the beginning of these more extreme events. In Matthew 24 I think Jesus covered thousands of years because many have come claiming to be Christ but were and are false teachers. Many of the things He described were ongoing things. It's only when we get into the rest of Matthew 24 that I see future events yet to be unfolded. I believe Jesus covered a very large span of time in that one chapter . Some of it has happened, but much of it hasn't happened.

Many tend to be skeptical and look back at things like the great depression or the other times there have been viruses run amok. The difference between then and now is the ALIGNMENT of events according to biblical prophecy. We didn't have a move  during the food shortages in the 1930's by all major governments to follow similar political agendas, we didn't have the rebellion against all things Godly on a world wide scale, we have never had such a great falling away, calling good evil and evil good. We didn't have Israel as a nation once again, some even arguing it really isn't the Nation the bible was talking about. We HAVE had wars and rumors of wars. We HAVE had attacks on all major protestant denominations basically making many of them insolvent, we HAVE seen the shift in the Catholic church toward bringing in all world religions. Not that this is anything different than they have always done, but now the pope is more open about it. We have never seen the proliferation of knowledge as it is now. This as also a flag to the end times.

We see untold millions of people blinded by the fake religious and political systems because they rejected our Lord and have been intentionally blinded to the truth. 

We ARE in the end times, but we aren't in the last of the end times yet. However it could all come much more swiftly than most are expecting. Who would have thought of something like COVID and all that surrounded it even five years ago?

Look at the prophetic books coupled to additional prophetic passages in books not considered to necessarily be prophetic and the emerging picture is one of the end times when compared to our present days.

Once again, we see eye to eye, my man. Never in history has there been a “convergence” of everything prophetic announcing the nearly seven years approaching. The laundry list in Matthew 24 boggles my mind as we witness it in real-time. It is all not coming; it is here.

The geopolitical events, alignments, and treaties follow scripture to the letter. We are seeing so many deteriorations in the fabric of society that were unimaginable only a few decades ago and gaining traction. We both could write a book on the developments of human depravity and the imaginations of man that are escalating.

Suppose someone told me only a couple of decades ago that the culture war would grow from homosexuality to gender identification and gender pronouns. People get fired from their employment for refusing to use gender-neutral pronouns, for not getting unproven “jabs,” etc. I probably would have given a little chuckle.

Acceptance of and promotion of biological males competing with women in sports because they woke up one morning and decided they were women. The legal push and encouragement to permanently allow “children” to alter their physical biology go beyond disgusting. I know; we both could write pages documenting all these abominations and anti-God culture.

The speed of all this occurring is phenomenal. Not many years ago, prophecy watchers did not have much to warn and report about. Today an Army of watchers cannot keep up with all the events leading up to “watch, therefore.”

If the Lord tarries, with this linear acceleration, what will the world and our culture look like in 3-5 years?

Have you been watching the new abomination taking shape? Self-identification with animals.

[Dennis1209]

On 8/25/2022 at 11:03 PM, grumix8 said:

1. Matthew 24

2. The third temple built

3. What else in your opinion ?

Given my age, reading Matthew chapter 24 fifty years ago, and reading it right now. Sheds a whole lot of light on where we are presently. 

[Anne2]

19 hours ago, tatwo said:

Anne2 & Starise,

I would like to ask some questions specifically about the topic of images on coins...

Anne2...can you go more into detail...and maybe you have...on your thoughts about "Images on coins are things which are also seen" in relationship the antichrist?

If this is not a good question...sorry...it just reminds of a time I was doing a study on the mark of the beast...the concept of inscription or imprint...came into the study and any connection to the temple...if any?

Tatwo...:)

I am not sure what you are asking. As far as coins and images, Bar Kochba coins literally had an image of the temple with the ark of the covenant in it. The star sitting above, was an image of bar Kochba.

This copy and paste is the caption for the Chabad site concerning this

"Shortly, Ben Kozba became known as Bar Kokhba (Bar Kochba), which means son of a star, based on a verse in the Torah ( Numbers 24:17) that likens the Messiah to a star."

Nu 24:17  I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

The three wise, from the east, men asked:

Mt 2:2  Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

I do not know if you know about the book: "Jewish literacy" written by Rabbi Joseph Telushkin. He is not a Messianic Rabbi.

He has a section in the book where he speaks of this. He also writes on Josephus as well.

This copy and paste from the Jewish virtual library.

"Ben Zakkai urged surrender, but the Zealots would not hear of it, so ben Zakkai faked his own death and had his disciples smuggle him out of Jerusalem in a coffin. They carried the coffin to Vespasian's tent, where ben Zakkai emerged from the coffin. He told Vespasian that he had had a vision (some would say, a shrewd political insight) that Vespasian would soon be emperor, and he asked Vespasian to set aside a place in Yavneh (near modern Rehovot) where he could start a small school and study Torah in peace. Vespasian promised that if the prophesy came true, he would grant ben Zakkai's request. Vespasian became Emperor within a year, and kept his word, allowing the school to be established after the war was over. The school ben Zakkai established at Yavneh became the center of Jewish learning for centuries and replaced Jerusalem as the seat of the Sanhedrin."

It is interesting that this account above is historically accounted to Jesephus. Which Josephus is considered a traitor today for preaching surrender.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Anne2