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Starise

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13 hours ago, Sower said:

And there's the rub. I'm sure many/some here have been betrayed by a really good friend at some time. It happens.

"Of course", if someone betrays me, is that person a really good friend? Jesus says something about character producing what is good, with a lot or a little, or producing what is evil, with a lot or a little. 

"'He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much.'" (Luke 16:10)

So . . . @Starise > does Biblical Christianity make us able to know who to trust?

"'Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.'" (John 7:23)

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

Jesus Christ's sheep "will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers." (in John 10:5)

"And this I pray, that you love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment." (Philippians 1:9)

There are "those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." (in Hebrews 5:14)

 

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13 hours ago, Starise said:

For me the question would be, did God always have a plan to rescue sinful men? I would say yes. Was this plan always called Christianity? No. This opens up a can of worms as Sower puts it, because it takes us into how men were saved BEFORE Jesus.

We have Abraham whom our Apostle Paul uses as an example of faith. And Abraham "believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness." (in Genesis 15:6)

But who was it who was talking to Abraham? Who was Abraham believing, then? 

I get how you mean "before Jesus" to mean before Jesus was on this earth in flesh and blood. But was Jesus speaking to Abraham, being believed then, therefore? 

In any case, faith is included in Christianity, and if Abraham had faith which is an example for us . . . that could indeed be considered to be Christian faith. 

And what does "Christian" mean? > having to do with Christ . . . the Messiah. And ones in the early scriptures were certainly about their Messiah . . . yet to come, of course. So, they were about their Messiah. 

Plus, Hebrews chapter eleven uses people of the earlier scriptures as our examples of faith. 

So, in case such faith is Christian, it was on earth before Jesus came here in the flesh.

In any case, our Apostle Paul says we need "faith working through love," in Galatians 5:6. Was this "love" which God means here on earth before Jesus?

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2 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

What does the Bible actually teach about how we are to parent our Children. Esp what does it mean to raise up a child in the way they are to go?

Reference Proverbs 22:6 NIV

Start children off on the way they should go, and even when they are old they will not turn from it.

It starts with how we live because parents teach by example. A family can read the bible every day but if they aren't living it, they will be seen as hypocritical. I'm not saying parents won't make mistakes. They should see the Lord in us though.

Many parents leave Christian training up to the church which is a huge mistake. The church is certainly an important part of it. 

Many parents spend lots of time and money making sure their child is well educated with skills for the working world, to make sure they excel in athletics, but they fail to use that same drive to educate them in the Lord.

Spiritual things are not a natural inclination for anyone in the beginning. Children are no different. They usually don't like church. They don't like reading from the bible. Parents can explain the bible and shed light on it for them to make it more interesting. 

Often it isn't what a parent DOES so much as what a parent isn't doing. Most households have at least one TV and 99% of everything that comes from it is pure garbage. It's about the same with smart phones and computers. I have seen plenty of 6 year olds with smart phones and no protection from what they can access on them.

Even if all media were clean, spending too much time in front of a screen and not getting out to socialize is a bad thing. Young people today are overloaded by all kinds of media and are often being raised by the school.  Media is addictive and can consume huge amounts of time with things like video games. One of the worst things I ever did was to buy my son a video game system.

Go outside in any suburb. How many young people do you see actually outdoors? 

The biblical directive is simple. We know right from wrong and as believers we know the Lord. The ideas of right and wrong along with the proper discipline  are the foundation a child needs to stand on. They need to be shown and taught the ways of the Lord. We are imprinting the next generation. This is a responsibility of parents.

If you won't raise your child, the devil will.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, com7fy8 said:

We have Abraham whom our Apostle Paul uses as an example of faith. And Abraham "believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness." (in Genesis 15:6)

But who was it who was talking to Abraham? Who was Abraham believing, then? 

I get how you mean "before Jesus" to mean before Jesus was on this earth in flesh and blood. But was Jesus speaking to Abraham, being believed then, therefore? 

In any case, faith is included in Christianity, and if Abraham had faith which is an example for us . . . that could indeed be considered to be Christian faith. 

And what does "Christian" mean? > having to do with Christ . . . the Messiah. And ones in the early scriptures were certainly about their Messiah . . . yet to come, of course. So, they were about their Messiah. 

Plus, Hebrews chapter eleven uses people of the earlier scriptures as our examples of faith. 

So, in case such faith is Christian, it was on earth before Jesus came here in the flesh.

In any case, our Apostle Paul says we need "faith working through love," in Galatians 5:6. Was this "love" which God means here on earth before Jesus?

@com7fy8

You took the words right out of my mouth as you so well put this.

" For God so loved the world" in the 1st part of John 3:16 shows God's premeditation to send Jesus. The references you gave were excellent. I think you are referring to Hebrews chapter 11 which is one of the hallmark chapters in the bible. It is essentially a chapter on faith. 

There was a plan for "Christians" long before the term itself originated. God told Abraham ALL nations would be blessed through him. This was not material prosperity, this was a lineage blessing since him and his people were chosen to introduce the savior. All of those early sacrifices were precursors to the very last sacrifice that would be necessary in order to satisfy God's requirement to cover men's sins- Jesus. Most of the Jews misunderstood and were looking for an earthly king. As Jesus offered Himself a sacrifice, we offer ourselves daily as living sacrifices. We are told to take up our crosses daily and follow him. One day we will be free from these crosses and will rise again in new better bodies just as Jesus was freed from His cross and rose again.

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Here is a question I have tried to find a biblical answer to, with no satisfactory explanation. I posted a thread sometime back asking a serious Salvation question, with no responses that I can recall, about saving faith and knowing you have eternal security.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

I'll first give a metaphor to understand my question better. One hundred people have money (faith and trust of symbolic fiat money) in the bank. The dedication, trust, and confidence in our government and the bank will vary from person to person and time. No two individuals will see the bank or money similarly due to their knowledge, financial history, experience, promises, perception, etc. People, at times, will develop doubts and fears and question themselves about how much faith and trust they have put in someone else's hands.

Some may have enough trust to invest 100% in the bank, some 50%, and some 5% or less. Some will not trust the bank and currency and have zero faith, trust, and confidence.

Here comes the question: In our soul, how much is enough faith, belief, and trust to qualify for saving faith and not going to Hell? To quantify saving faith, is it a kernel of faith, trust, and confidence, 100% of all you have all the time or something between the two? What is God’s standard to obtain saving faith?

The thief on the cross next to Jesus asked that Jesus remember him. No time or opportunity for baptism to openly confirm he was a Christ follower and no time to demonstrate repentance.

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24 minutes ago, Starise said:

We are told to take up our crosses daily and follow him. One day we will be free from these crosses

What does Jesus mean by the "cross" He wants each of us to carry? 

"If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me?" (in Luke 9:23)

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13 hours ago, Sower said:

default_thumbsup.gif.1a089a9c5f3473a6119aab61bbfac4c1.gif    Definitely agree..Starise. And I believe it's a biggie, for some to overcome.

When I watch some movies where the father and son are at odds, the son trying to please and make his dad proud, lot of fighting,then at the end they come together and the dad is proud of his son, and they hug or whatever, I lose it.
I was oldest ablebodied of seven, never knew what adolescence was, my dad an alcoholic. We fought till I left to join the Marines, just to get away.. This was not uncommon amongst friends I knew. Years after salvation I was taught how to deal with it. Counseling.

I went home, placed two chairs facing each other, sat down in one, and talked to my dad, imagining him sitting there. He was dead. I got it all off my chest, the anger, disappointment, and a hundred 'whys'. At the end I sobbed more then I ever had.
And then we were good. Now, to get rid of all that false data, bad programming. The formative years sometimes really suck.
But then Christ entered in. And ABBA!

Your history growing up sounds like it mirrors my own. The only thing I grappled with was what branch of the service I desired the most. I did not want Uncle Sam to make the selection, so I took the extra year for what I thought was the best fit for me.

I do not want to get off topic with Starise thread, so I’ll leave it at that…

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49 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Here is a question I have tried to find a biblical answer to, with no satisfactory explanation. I posted a thread sometime back asking a serious Salvation question, with no responses that I can recall, about saving faith and knowing you have eternal security.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

I'll first give a metaphor to understand my question better. One hundred people have money (faith and trust of symbolic fiat money) in the bank. The dedication, trust, and confidence in our government and the bank will vary from person to person and time. No two individuals will see the bank or money similarly due to their knowledge, financial history, experience, promises, perception, etc. People, at times, will develop doubts and fears and question themselves about how much faith and trust they have put in someone else's hands.

Some may have enough trust to invest 100% in the bank, some 50%, and some 5% or less. Some will not trust the bank and currency and have zero faith, trust, and confidence.

Here comes the question: In our soul, how much is enough faith, belief, and trust to qualify for saving faith and not going to Hell? To quantify saving faith, is it a kernel of faith, trust, and confidence, 100% of all you have all the time or something between the two? What is God’s standard to obtain saving faith?

The thief on the cross next to Jesus asked that Jesus remember him. No time or opportunity for baptism to openly confirm he was a Christ follower and no time to demonstrate repentance.

What I think I understand you to be asking about is maybe quantifying what AMOUNT of a qualifying faith would be necessary to appease God. Especially since a text was given which tells us to give ALL.

I am reminded of several texts that address this. 

The setting of this passage is a man who has a demon possessed son. This man has was at the end of his rope and he asked Jesus to heal his son from the demon.

Mark 9:24-

Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”

The Lord cast out the demon based on this man's willingness to believe.

The next one comes amidst a storm the disciples were afraid would overtake the boat. Even though Jesus rebuked them for having "little faith" He stilled the storm.

Matt. 8:26-

He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.

I believe these passages and other similar ones indicate God's willingness to save anyone who reaches out with even the smallest amount of faith. The reaching out part is what solidifies God's faithfulness to us. Really all faith in Christ is at the core is reaching out. Some would say He even gives us that ability.  The outstretched hand signifies we need help. We are saying we can't do it alone. We are acknowledging we need Him.

I believe the giving ALL part comes later though our maturity in Him as He continues to work in us. I see faith as really an all or nothing sort of thing. When we reached out to Him, that's all it required. He also knows everyone who never reaches out to Him. Those who never knock will never see the door opened.


 

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42 minutes ago, com7fy8 said:

What does Jesus mean by the "cross" He wants each of us to carry? 

"If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me?" (in Luke 9:23)

This would be the hardships we face as believers every day as a result of our faith in Christ. Some of us are required to give our lives and the cross may be quite literally real. Believers all over the world are being physically persecuted as I type this. Most of it isn't brought up in the media.

For others our cross might be a battle with the lusts of the flesh. We have to give it up in order to be close to the Lord and stay in fellowship with Him. We make a decision to deny ourselves whatever it is that stands between us and Him. 

For yet others, our cross might be the loss of popularity, a job, friends or even a church that was teaching false doctrine. We lay everything at the foot of the cross, no matter what it is, to please the one who is worthy of all our praise.

We will sometimes drop our crosses along the journey. Every day is a new day to take up our cross once again.

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15 hours ago, Starise said:

Maybe you have heard this description of God before since this is not an original idea of mine. I have adopted it though because it make a lot of sense and I think it shows our incomplete comprehension of God.

It has been suggested that we tend to see our heavenly Father the way we view or viewed our earthly Father. I think this is a grain of truth to that. If we had terrible oppressive fathers we might think our heavenly Father is this way. If we had a kind understanding father we might think this of our heavenly Father.

Really neither description is accurate since God is so much more complex. The Bible tells us He is slow to anger, so some might conclude He seldom or almost never gets angry, but he does get angry at disobedience and sin.When He gets angry He is always fair. He cannot tolerate sin. Sin left unpaid by His Son will have to be dealt with. The results of that are terrible for those who haven't come to Christ.

As a perfect being who is bringing His creation to eventual perfection, His house will be set in order. He has made one provision for men when He never was required to do so. That one provision is Jesus Christ. Reject Him and you assure judgement on yourself.

This is true,it is especially something I can relate to

My father,in my eyes,was a wonderful Dad who showed me unconditional love,he was my best friend yet I never took his kindness for weakness as he was a well respected man.He lead by example & was the first to say" Don't do as I did" if he was in error .... fast to forgive & held nothing against you , "move on & don't repeat your mistakes" he would add!

The love of a father was given me from the moment I came into this world,it was so very easy for me to understand how much God Loves me & how a " Father"would give his life for me without reservation.

About " fear" ,I feared what my father was capable of- it's respect.My father was a tough Sicilian guy from Hell's Kitchen,NY-I saw my Dad get angry( not ever with me) & would never want to be subjected to his wrath- it was fearsome but I was not afraid of my Daddy,I was afraid for others if they'd ever seem a threat to me. He was my rock,my Refuge,my shelter& my provider .And most of all he was the one who read the Scriptures to me before I could read,telling me all about Jesus through all the stories in the Bible

I miss my Dad

Funny how I knew he'd always love me yet with fear & trembling I never wanted to do anything to hurt him & possibly damage our Relationship,though it was not possible( So I can really relate my relationship with my Dad to my Relationship with God in Christ)❤️

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