Antiochus Epiphanes, the premier archetype of the antichrist, any others qualify ?

[WilliamL]

On 10/31/2022 at 11:03 AM, Tom Maccabeus said:

Hi all,

I think there is a good consensus that Emperor Antiochus Epiphanes IV (167 B.C.) is seen as the premier archetype of the antichrist. He fulfilled many of the prophecies in Daniel 11 and Daniel 8. In blasphemous pride Antiochus assumed the title "Theos Epiphanes" (god manifest) Daniel 11:36 states… he will exalt and magnify himself above every god, and he will speak monstrous things against the God of gods" (also in 2 Thess. 2).

What do you think, any others qualify? BTW there is a reason I ask.

Tom

While I object to the term "the antichrist" (see the blog reference below), and prefer the more accurate term "Son of Perdition" -- to answer your question, I would suggest that Haman was also a good archetype.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1150-the-antichrist-myth/

 

[Diaste]

On 11/2/2022 at 4:32 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

I think you should believe Jesus Insted of whoever it was who taught you the abomination of desolation was already placed in Jerusalem. 

Christ said what would happen when the abomimation of desolation is placed in Jerusalem. 

 

Jesus told us to look to Daniel for the understanding. Daniel prophesied of the A of D that happened in 167 BC. You can read about it here: A of D

Here's Antiochus IV Epiphanes: https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1589-antiochus-iv-epiphanes

It did already happen as the example of what's to come. 

 

[Diaste]

On 11/2/2022 at 4:47 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

 

At least we as believers in Christ's words know the abomination spoken of by the prophet Daniel has not been placed in Jerusalem yet which is testimony the interpretation of the Pharisees was all wrong. 

 

I mean, as a matter of history it certainly was. I guess I can't diminish the prophecies and ignore all the historians about the events of 169-167 BC.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Jesus told us to look to Daniel for the understanding. Daniel prophesied of the A of D that happened in 167 BC. You can read about it here: A of D

Here's Antiochus IV Epiphanes: https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1589-antiochus-iv-epiphanes

It did already happen as the example of what's to come. 

 

Not really. 

Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet daniel(let the reader understand). 

When you see it means it will take place in the future, not the past. You would not be able to see it take place if it had already taken place. 

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

I mean, as a matter of history it certainly was. I guess I can't diminish the prophecies and ignore all the historians about the events of 169-167 BC.

 

If you wish to believe the resurection took place in 167 bc, you can. 

But I'm telling you. The time of the end was not in 167 bc when you claim the abomination of desolation took place. 

Christ is very clear the time of distress caused by the abomination of desolation is still future. 

Christ is not wrong. This time of great tribulation caused by the abomination of desolation is future, not past. 

Daniel 12:1-2

At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Shilohsfoal

[Alive]

38 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

If you wish to believe the resurection took place in 167 bc, you can. 

But I'm telling you. The time of the end was not in 167 bc when you claim the abomination of desolation took place. 

Christ is very clear the time of distress caused by the abomination of desolation is still future. 

Christ is not wrong. This time of great tribulation caused by the abomination of desolation is future, not past. 

Daniel 12:1-2

At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
 

 

It sure was the future when He said those words.

What were the last two things Jesus told His disciples before He ascended?

[Shilohsfoal]

53 minutes ago, Alive said:

It sure was the future when He said those words.

What were the last two things Jesus told His disciples before He ascended?

That it wasnt for them to know the times and dates God has put in his own authority. 

But I find it interesting we can know the date from a certain point forward. Like God had informed Noah at a certain point when the rain would fall. 

A date to start counting the days.

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

If you wish to believe the resurection took place in 167 bc, you can. 

But I'm telling you. The time of the end was not in 167 bc when you claim the abomination of desolation took place. 

Christ is very clear the time of distress caused by the abomination of desolation is still future. 

Christ is not wrong. This time of great tribulation caused by the abomination of desolation is future, not past. 

Daniel 12:1-2

At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
 

 

I Agree 100%

To support your claim, the (Little Horn) seen in Daniel 7:9-11 below, we see the (Little Horn) present at the second coming and final judgment, the books are opened, and "His Living Body Destroyed"

Daniel 7:9-11KJV

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Below we see the "He" the bad guy, making abomination and desolation to the "Consummation" or "The Ultimate End"

Merriam-Webster

Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage

2: the ultimate end : FINISH

Daniel 9:27KJV

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Conclusion: Daniel's AOD is a "Future" event unfulfilled

Jesus Is The Lord

Edited November 4, 2022 by truth7t7

[Shilohsfoal]

41 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

I Agree 100%

To support your claim, the (Little Horn) seen in Daniel 7:9-11 below, we see the (Little Horn) present at the second coming and final judgment, the books are opened, and "His Living Body Destroyed"

Daniel 7:9-11KJV

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Below we see the "He" the bad guy, making abomination and desolation to the "Consummation" or "The Ultimate End"

Merriam-Webster

Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage

2: the ultimate end : FINISH

Daniel 9:27KJV

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Conclusion: Daniel's AOD is a "Future" event unfulfilled

Jesus Is The Lord

Zechariah had written that those who have not recieved the rain would be consumed. He described their consummation. 

Zech 14:12

And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

It happens so fast that they don't even have time to fall to the ground. They are standing on their feet when they are totally consumed. This happens to have taken place before in a city called Hiroshima. The day an abomination was placed in that city that caused its desolation. I believe those who have recieved the rain in zech have the holy ghost residing in them. 

[truth7t7]

8 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Zechariah had written that those who have not recieved the rain would be consumed. He described their consummation. 

Zech 14:12

And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

It happens so fast that they don't even have time to fall to the ground. They are standing on their feet when they are totally consumed. This happens to have taken place before in a city called Hiroshima. The day an abomination was placed in that city that caused its desolation. I believe those who have recieved the rain in zech have the holy ghost residing in them. 

The future "consummation" or "Ultimate End" is seen below in 2 Peter 3:10, it's my belief that the event seen in Zechariah 14:12 takes place at this same time

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by truth7t7