Is the U.S. the "Great Whore of Babylon"?

[Not of the World]

1 minute ago, David1701 said:

The Inqisition, which lasted for about 600 years...

Very broad response.  Which "saints" did the RCC execute?  

[Not of the World]

3 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Not exactly...

They have exoteric and esoteric teachings.  The exoteric teachings are for the public; the esoteric teachings are for the insiders (high-ranking Roman Catholics, 30th degree and higher Freemasons, etc.).  Having said that, even many of the exoteric teachings are deeply evil.

They teach that, in order to be saved, you must accept the primacy of the "Pope".

They teach Mary (it's not the biblical Mary, obviously) as "Mediatrix", "Co-redemptrix" and "Queen of Heaven".

They teach that if you do not believe in transubstantiation and do not worship the sun-shaped wafer, you are anathema (cursed).

They teach that the so-called "Pope" is the Vicar of Christ.  Vicar means "instead of"; in other words, one of the "Pope's" titles is "Instead of Christ" (anti-Christ).  He is hiding in plain sight!

They teach that one of the "Pope's" titles is "Holy Father" - another title of blasphemy, belonging to God the Father alone.

Their cathedrals are packed with pagan symbols.

They teach that, in order to maintain your justification, you must keep doing good works.

They teach that there is a place where sin is purged out of people, before they go to heaven (completely undermining the atoning work of Christ), called "Purgatory".

The list of heresies just goes on and on and on...

Nevertheless, they also teach that Jesus is God and that he gave his life for us on the cross and that whoever believes in and follows his commandments will live forever, right?  So let's say a Catholic believes everything that the RCC preaches and lives a life consistent with Christ's teachings, do you believe that they are saved?

[David1701]

10 minutes ago, Not of the World said:

That's news to me and I'm a former Catholic.  Do you have a source to substantiate this claim?  

"The Church has ever believed that the popes alone have the keys to salvation in Christ."

https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=4319

The quote is near the end of the article.

Here's one from the official Vatican news site.  It doesn't get much more authoritative than this!

"Therefore, whoever succeeds to the Chair of Peter obtains by the institution of Christ himself, the Primacy of Peter over the whole Church… Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world. In this way, by unity with the Roman Pontiff in communion and in profession of the same faith, the Church of Christ becomes one flock under one supreme shepherd. This is the teaching of the catholic truth, and no one can depart from it without endangering his faith and salvation.”

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2020-07/primacy-and-infallibility-150-years-after-vatican-i.html

[Alive]

13 minutes ago, Not of the World said:

Nevertheless, they also teach that Jesus is God and that he gave his life for us on the cross and that whoever believes in and follows his commandments will live forever, right?  So let's say a Catholic believes everything that the RCC preaches and lives a life consistent with Christ's teachings, do you believe that they are saved?

Belonging to or not belonging to a group is not a measure of Salvation in Christ. The Lord has His people all over the place.

:-)

An individual is either 'In Christ' or not.

[David1701]

17 minutes ago, Not of the World said:

Very broad response.  Which "saints" did the RCC execute?  

Saints are genuine believers in the Lord Jesus Christ.  I neither can, nor would I wish to, attempt to name millions of believers whom the RC organistion has tortured and murdered.

If you want some names, read Foxe's Book of Martyrs; and I hope you have a strong stomach...

[David1701]

17 minutes ago, Not of the World said:

Nevertheless, they also teach that Jesus is God and that he gave his life for us on the cross and that whoever believes in and follows his commandments will live forever, right?  So let's say a Catholic believes everything that the RCC preaches and lives a life consistent with Christ's teachings, do you believe that they are saved?

If someone believes all the RC dogma, then he is an idolatrous heretic, and his life will definitely not be consistent with Christ's teachings.

Those RCs who are saved, are the ones who believe in the real Lord Jesus Christ, not a fake "Mary", not the so-called "Pope" and not a sun-shaped wafer; in fact, they are not really Roman Catholics, in anything except name.

There have been such people (e.g. Charles Chiniquy), and I'm sure there are nowadays; but most RCs that I've met were definitely not saved.

[other one]

35 minutes ago, Not of the World said:

Well, the U.S. DOJ is protecting God-only-knows how many elitists that had sex with underage people and there is no outrage from mainstream media, Hollywood, big tech, big business, the Democratic Party, etc., etc., etc., so yea, they are apparently "ok" with it.  

I personally don't know a single person in the whole country that is ok with it...   not even a Democrat.

[Not of the World]

15 minutes ago, David1701 said:

"The Church has ever believed that the popes alone have the keys to salvation in Christ."

https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=4319

The quote is near the end of the article.

Here's one from the official Vatican news site.  It doesn't get much more authoritative than this!

"Therefore, whoever succeeds to the Chair of Peter obtains by the institution of Christ himself, the Primacy of Peter over the whole Church… Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world. In this way, by unity with the Roman Pontiff in communion and in profession of the same faith, the Church of Christ becomes one flock under one supreme shepherd. This is the teaching of the catholic truth, and no one can depart from it without endangering his faith and salvation.”

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2020-07/primacy-and-infallibility-150-years-after-vatican-i.html

 

Thank you.  Even more damning is this:

http://traditionalcatholic.net/Tradition/Council/Vatican/Fourth_Session,_Chapter_3.html

ON THE POWER AND CHARACTER OF THE PRIMACY OF THE ROMAN PONTIFF

And so, supported by the clear witness of holy scripture, and adhering to the manifest and explicit decrees both of our predecessors the Roman pontiffs and of general councils, we promulgate anew the definition of the ecumenical council of Florence[49], which must be believed by all faithful Christians, namely that the apostolic see and the Roman pontiff hold a world-wide primacy, and that the Roman pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter, the prince of the apostles, true vicar of Christ, head of the whole church and father and teacher of all christian people.

To him, in blessed Peter, full power has been given by our lord Jesus Christ to tend, rule and govern the universal church. All this is to be found in the acts of the ecumenical councils and the sacred canons. Wherefore we teach and declare that, by divine ordinance, the Roman church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other church, and that this jurisdictional power of the Roman pontiff is both episcopal and immediate. Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the church throughout the world.

In this way, by unity with the Roman pontiff in communion and in profession of the same faith , the church of Christ becomes one flock under one supreme shepherd [50].

This is the teaching of the catholic truth, and no one can depart from it without endangering his faith and salvation. This power of the supreme pontiff by no means detracts from that ordinary and immediate power of episcopal jurisdiction, by which bishops, who have succeeded to the place of the apostles by appointment of the Holy Spirit, tend and govern individually the particular flocks which have been assigned to them. On the contrary, this power of theirs is asserted, supported and defended by the supreme and universal pastor; for St Gregory the Great says: "My honour is the honour of the whole church. My honour is the steadfast strength of my brethren. Then do I receive true honour, when it is denied to none of those to whom honour is due." [51]

Furthermore, it follows from that supreme power which the Roman pontiff has in governing the whole church, that he has the right, in the performance of this office of his, to communicate freely with the pastors and flocks of the entire church, so that they may be taught and guided by him in the way of salvation.

And therefore we condemn and reject the opinions of those who hold that this communication of the supreme head with pastors and flocks may be lawfully obstructed; or that it should be dependent on the civil power, which leads them to maintain that what is determined by the apostolic see or by its authority concerning the government of the church, has no force or effect unless it is confirmed by the agreement of the civil authority.

Since the Roman pontiff, by the divine right of the apostolic primacy, governs the whole church, we likewise teach and declare that he is the supreme judge of the faithful [52] , and that in all cases which fall under ecclesiastical jurisdiction recourse may be had to his judgment [53]. The sentence of the apostolic see (than which there is no higher authority) is not subject to revision by anyone, nor may anyone lawfully pass judgment thereupon [54] . And so they stray from the genuine path of truth who maintain that it is lawful to appeal from the judgments of the Roman pontiffs to an ecumenical council as if this were an authority superior to the Roman pontiff.

So, then, if anyone says that the Roman pontiff has merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema.

[David1701]

Just now, Not of the World said:

 

Thank you.  Even more damning is this:

http://traditionalcatholic.net/Tradition/Council/Vatican/Fourth_Session,_Chapter_3.html

ON THE POWER AND CHARACTER OF THE PRIMACY OF THE ROMAN PONTIFF

And so, supported by the clear witness of holy scripture, and adhering to the manifest and explicit decrees both of our predecessors the Roman pontiffs and of general councils, we promulgate anew the definition of the ecumenical council of Florence[49], which must be believed by all faithful Christians, namely that the apostolic see and the Roman pontiff hold a world-wide primacy, and that the Roman pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter, the prince of the apostles, true vicar of Christ, head of the whole church and father and teacher of all christian people.

To him, in blessed Peter, full power has been given by our lord Jesus Christ to tend, rule and govern the universal church. All this is to be found in the acts of the ecumenical councils and the sacred canons. Wherefore we teach and declare that, by divine ordinance, the Roman church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other church, and that this jurisdictional power of the Roman pontiff is both episcopal and immediate. Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the church throughout the world.

In this way, by unity with the Roman pontiff in communion and in profession of the same faith , the church of Christ becomes one flock under one supreme shepherd [50].

This is the teaching of the catholic truth, and no one can depart from it without endangering his faith and salvation. This power of the supreme pontiff by no means detracts from that ordinary and immediate power of episcopal jurisdiction, by which bishops, who have succeeded to the place of the apostles by appointment of the Holy Spirit, tend and govern individually the particular flocks which have been assigned to them. On the contrary, this power of theirs is asserted, supported and defended by the supreme and universal pastor; for St Gregory the Great says: "My honour is the honour of the whole church. My honour is the steadfast strength of my brethren. Then do I receive true honour, when it is denied to none of those to whom honour is due." [51]

Furthermore, it follows from that supreme power which the Roman pontiff has in governing the whole church, that he has the right, in the performance of this office of his, to communicate freely with the pastors and flocks of the entire church, so that they may be taught and guided by him in the way of salvation.

And therefore we condemn and reject the opinions of those who hold that this communication of the supreme head with pastors and flocks may be lawfully obstructed; or that it should be dependent on the civil power, which leads them to maintain that what is determined by the apostolic see or by its authority concerning the government of the church, has no force or effect unless it is confirmed by the agreement of the civil authority.

Since the Roman pontiff, by the divine right of the apostolic primacy, governs the whole church, we likewise teach and declare that he is the supreme judge of the faithful [52] , and that in all cases which fall under ecclesiastical jurisdiction recourse may be had to his judgment [53]. The sentence of the apostolic see (than which there is no higher authority) is not subject to revision by anyone, nor may anyone lawfully pass judgment thereupon [54] . And so they stray from the genuine path of truth who maintain that it is lawful to appeal from the judgments of the Roman pontiffs to an ecumenical council as if this were an authority superior to the Roman pontiff.

So, then, if anyone says that the Roman pontiff has merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema.

Yes, that's even clearer.

[Not of the World]

14 minutes ago, Alive said:

Belonging to or not belonging to a group is not a measure of Salvation in Christ. The Lord has His people all over the place.

:-)

An individual is either 'In Christ' or not.

I certainly share that view.  So the question is this, are faithful Catholics that love and follow Jesus and who love their neighbors, saved?