The woman in Revelation 12

[Spiros]

The woman is the constellation of Virgo. Virgo symbolizes Virgin Mary.

 

This is an astronomical  comparison of two dates that seems to match what Revelation refers to.

 

The firsts could be the birth of Jesus. The date is September 22 4 BC. The second date relates to the beast that raises out of the sea. The sea is the Atlantic ocean and the beast is the  Apollo 7 rocket. On October 22, 1968 AD the Apollo 7 mission ended. On the next day October 23, 1968 AD the astronomical positions of the internal planets mimicked their position when Jesus was born.

 

https://i.postimg.cc/cCdZpFvw/Apollo-Birth-of-Jesus02.jpg

 

In both cases the planet Mars is at the head of the woman. ("and upon her head a crown of twelve stars"). The 12 stars can be understood if we look at the three planets at the head of the woman on October 23, 1968 AD.

 

"a woman clothed with the sun", the Sun is in the constellation of Virgo in both dates.

 

"and the moon under her feet", the Moon in both dates are below Virgo in the constellation of Libra.

 

"And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." The child in the belly of the woman in both dates is planet Mercury, the morning star who the Hellenes called Apollo.

 

"and behold a great red dragon" This great red dragon is the constellation of Scorpio which is next to Libra and rises right after it. In the area of this constellation on both dates we find the evening star Venus. The ancient Hellenes called it Hesperus. The isopsephy value of Hesperus(ΕΣΠΕΡΟΣ) is equal to that of Antares(ΑΝΤΑΡΗΣ). Antares is the brightest star of the constellation of Scorpio. It is a "beast" - a giant red star.

 

ΕΣΠΕΡΟΣ = 5+200+80+5+100+70+200 = ΑΝΤΑΡΗΣ = 1+50+300+1+100+8+200 = 660 

 

But is not only the Sun, the Moon, planets Mercury, Venus, Mars that align between the two dates. It is also the largest asteroid, Ceres which is not visible by naked eye and not depicted on the photo presented. In both dates it's visual position is at the constellation of Scorpio close to the planet Venus. 

 

[Vine Abider]

45 minutes ago, Spiros said:

The woman is the constellation of Virgo. Virgo symbolizes Virgin Mary.

 

This is an astronomical  comparison of two dates that seems to match what Revelation refers to.

 

The firsts could be the birth of Jesus. The date is September 22 4 BC. The second date relates to the beast that raises out of the sea. The sea is the Atlantic ocean and the beast is the  Apollo 7 rocket. On October 22, 1968 AD the Apollo 7 mission ended. On the next day October 23, 1968 AD the astronomical positions of the internal planets mimicked their position when Jesus was born.

 

https://i.postimg.cc/cCdZpFvw/Apollo-Birth-of-Jesus02.jpg

 

In both cases the planet Mars is at the head of the woman. ("and upon her head a crown of twelve stars"). The 12 stars can be understood if we look at the three planets at the head of the woman on October 23, 1968 AD.

 

"a woman clothed with the sun", the Sun is in the constellation of Virgo in both dates.

 

"and the moon under her feet", the Moon in both dates are below Virgo in the constellation of Libra.

 

"And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." The child in the belly of the woman in both dates is planet Mercury, the morning star who the Hellenes called Apollo.

 

"and behold a great red dragon" This great red dragon is the constellation of Scorpio which is next to Libra and rises right after it. In the area of this constellation on both dates we find the evening star Venus. The ancient Hellenes called it Hesperus. The isopsephy value of Hesperus(ΕΣΠΕΡΟΣ) is equal to that of Antares(ΑΝΤΑΡΗΣ). Antares is the brightest star of the constellation of Scorpio. It is a "beast" - a giant red star.

 

ΕΣΠΕΡΟΣ = 5+200+80+5+100+70+200 = ΑΝΤΑΡΗΣ = 1+50+300+1+100+8+200 = 660 

 

But is not only the Sun, the Moon, planets Mercury, Venus, Mars that align between the two dates. It is also the largest asteroid, Ceres which is not visible by naked eye and not depicted on the photo presented. In both dates it's visual position is at the constellation of Scorpio close to the planet Venus. 

 

Not sure what to do with any of this . . .  it is the first time I've ever heard someone try to explain Rev 12 with astrological signs . . . WOW!

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Spiros said:

The woman is the constellation of Virgo. Virgo symbolizes Virgin Mary.

 

This is an astronomical  comparison of two dates that seems to match what Revelation refers to.

 

The firsts could be the birth of Jesus. The date is September 22 4 BC. The second date relates to the beast that raises out of the sea. The sea is the Atlantic ocean and the beast is the  Apollo 7 rocket. On October 22, 1968 AD the Apollo 7 mission ended. On the next day October 23, 1968 AD the astronomical positions of the internal planets mimicked their position when Jesus was born.

 

https://i.postimg.cc/cCdZpFvw/Apollo-Birth-of-Jesus02.jpg

 

In both cases the planet Mars is at the head of the woman. ("and upon her head a crown of twelve stars"). The 12 stars can be understood if we look at the three planets at the head of the woman on October 23, 1968 AD.

 

"a woman clothed with the sun", the Sun is in the constellation of Virgo in both dates.

 

"and the moon under her feet", the Moon in both dates are below Virgo in the constellation of Libra.

 

"And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." The child in the belly of the woman in both dates is planet Mercury, the morning star who the Hellenes called Apollo.

 

"and behold a great red dragon" This great red dragon is the constellation of Scorpio which is next to Libra and rises right after it. In the area of this constellation on both dates we find the evening star Venus. The ancient Hellenes called it Hesperus. The isopsephy value of Hesperus(ΕΣΠΕΡΟΣ) is equal to that of Antares(ΑΝΤΑΡΗΣ). Antares is the brightest star of the constellation of Scorpio. It is a "beast" - a giant red star.

 

ΕΣΠΕΡΟΣ = 5+200+80+5+100+70+200 = ΑΝΤΑΡΗΣ = 1+50+300+1+100+8+200 = 660 

 

But is not only the Sun, the Moon, planets Mercury, Venus, Mars that align between the two dates. It is also the largest asteroid, Ceres which is not visible by naked eye and not depicted on the photo presented. In both dates it's visual position is at the constellation of Scorpio close to the planet Venus. 

 

Isaiah 47:13-14KJV

13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.

14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Bellow I posted the definition of "scepter" and the context when it was used...

The context is not the same as the context of poimaino-pastoring- the sheep of Jesus...

Jesus and the victorious ones who have been called by him to poimeno the sheep of the Nations those who have believe in Jesus they follow Jesus and like him Jesus has also given them the staff of the poimaina- of the Pastors of the sheep, him Jesus being the Great Sherpard...the plastering includes to make a new vessel out of the Gentile vessel as the were when first believe to show the new vessel in the new man of Jesus Christ...

This is similar with to what Paul said that the old man has to die and he is calling the believers to put on the new man and to forget the old man, to see the old man as the broken pieces of the vessel and not wish to take them back again but to carry on with the new vessel molded by the hands of the Poter...within these lines and intent the scripture was written about the Poimaima the guiding the sheep to a complete change of the old man into the New without any traces of the old.

***scep·ter

/ˈseptər/

Learn to pronounce

noun

an ornamented staff carried by rulers on ceremonial occasions as a symbol of sovereignty.

"imperial regalia of orb and scepter

◄ 3528. nikaó ►

Strong's Concordance nikaó: to conquer, prevail Original Word: νικάω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: nikaó Phonetic Spelling: (nik-ah'-o) Definition: to conquer, prevail Usage: I conquer, am victorious, overcome, prevail, subdue. HELPS Word-studies 3528 nikáō(from 3529 /níkē, "victory") – properly, conquer (overcome); " 'to carry off the victory, come off victorious.' The verb implies a battle" (K. Wuest).  * Revelation3:5 King James Bible He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. * Holman Christian Standard Bible 5. In the same way, the victor will be dressed in white clothes, and I will never erase his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name before My Father and before His angels  ***Revelation 19:11-14, 11. I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.  14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.         ********* The armies that follow Jesus Christ are the Victorious believers, who have overcome the peculiar situations in their path regarding the Gospel of Jesus as they are described in revelation 3:5 and in other parts of scripture., That besides being dressed in white garments they also are those to whom Jesus has put them on the white horses. Those riding with Jesus are still alive and in the ministry of Jesus such as was Philip the disciple who followed Jesus in the dessert and met the Ethiopian man and who followed Jesus to the villages of Judea and into the forbidden land and people, the Samaritans... Peter who follow Jesus in the forbidden house, the house of Cornelius and who gave the Gospel to the Gentiles to whom Jesus pour the Holy Spirit upon them as he had pour it on them in the day of Penticost... For Paul it was a similar situation as Jesus had asked him to ride with him and conquer city after city, and Nation after Nation...preaching the Gospel and plastering the sheep of Jesus together with Jesus as they were going along... Jesus is portrait in such a way as to show that all things took place after his death on the Cross and his resurrection and his ascension in Heaven...before he was confined to the land of Israel but after he died for the forgiveness of the sins for the whole world he can go in any Nation of the world and with his disciples as they were going from city to city and Nation to Nation conquering along the way and plastering-poimaino- the sheep of Jesus, anyone who believed in him along the way.

Okay. I read through your posting above three times. I must admit that I'm not sure what your argument is. I don't want to guess and then write a page on the wrong thing. May I ask you to just write why you think the Man-Child is Christ. As I pointed out, BOTH Christ AND the Overcomers are promised to "Shepherd" the Nations. This "Shepherding" is not gentle, for the carnal mind is at enmity with God and His commands. A "rod" is for chastisement (Ps.89:32) and iron is, as I explained, unbending. These are symbols of a Government that deals harshly, quickly and commensurately with criminals.

Our Lord Jesus will rule like that and require that His co-kings do too. But the question is; What is the evidence surrounding the Man-Child of Revelation 12? You will see from my postings that I considered BOTH Christ and the Overcomers of the Church. Overwhelmingly the evidence points to the Overcomers. These arguments of mine must be dismantled, and your new and (up to now) unconsidered arguments must be shown. I admit I could be wrong, but you must annul my arguments and establish yours.

The Book is called Apocalypse - the Revealing. Its events surround the Second Coming. The Man-Child is not the firstborn. The Woman is a "sign". the Woman is in heaven, but delivers on earth. She already had two other seeds. Thus, she is a Mother. But her seed encompass both Christian and Israelite. The Man-Child comes from a "sign". There is a Dragon that has little more than 3 ½ years left to operate. He has been an accuser of the Brethren. The Woman delivers and immediately flees to the wilderness. The Man-Child escapes the Dragon. The Man-Child displaces the Dragon. the woman must face its wrath for 1260 days. God does not help - the earth does. the Beast sends his army after the Woman.

If the Man-Child was Jesus it would cause the following difficulties. They are the same if you use Israel instead of Mary:
Mary was never in heaven, especially when pregnant
Mary is not a "sign". She is real
Mary did not have other seed before Jesus
Mary did not have seed who made up the Church
Mary did not bring forth Israel, or its Remnant
Mary did not face the Dragon
Mary did not flee to the wilderness
Mary did not live in the wilderness for 1260 days
Mary was not nourished by God
Jesus was not raptured to the throne directly after His birth
Jesus did not escape the Dragon

... and there are more. If the argument is made that the Woman is the same as Joseph's dream of Genesis 37, we must refuse that. The "sign" of Revelation 12 is different to the dream in every detail except maybe the number 12

Thanks for your understanding brother.

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

If the Man-Child was Jesus it would cause the following difficulties. They are the same if you use Israel instead of Mary:
Mary was never in heaven, especially when pregnant
Mary is not a "sign". She is real
Mary did not have other seed before Jesus
Mary did not have seed who made up the Church
Mary did not bring forth Israel, or its Remnant
Mary did not face the Dragon
Mary did not flee to the wilderness
Mary did not live in the wilderness for 1260 days
Mary was not nourished by God
Jesus was not raptured to the throne directly after His birth
Jesus did not escape the Dragon

Thanks for your understanding brother.

Those are great points showing that Mary could NOT be the Rev 12 woman!  I've already realized most of these points, but having them listed in one place is very helpful

Edited November 27, 2022 by Vine Abider
typo correction

[other one]

that vision was actually in the sky on Sept 23rd 2017..

[Your closest friendnt]

6 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Okay. I read through your posting above three times. I must admit that I'm not sure what your argument is. I don't want to guess and then write a page on the wrong thing. May I ask you to just write why you think the Man-Child is Christ. As I pointed out, BOTH Christ AND the Overcomers are promised to "Shepherd" the Nations. This "Shepherding" is not gentle, for the carnal mind is at enmity with God and His commands. A "rod" is for chastisement (Ps.89:32) and iron is, as I explained, unbending. These are symbols of a Government that deals harshly, quickly and commensurately with criminals.

Our Lord Jesus will rule like that and require that His co-kings do too. But the question is; What is the evidence surrounding the Man-Child of Revelation 12? You will see from my postings that I considered BOTH Christ and the Overcomers of the Church. Overwhelmingly the evidence points to the Overcomers. These arguments of mine must be dismantled, and your new and (up to now) unconsidered arguments must be shown. I admit I could be wrong, but you must annul my arguments and establish yours.

The Book is called Apocalypse - the Revealing. Its events surround the Second Coming. The Man-Child is not the firstborn. The Woman is a "sign". the Woman is in heaven, but delivers on earth. She already had two other seeds. Thus, she is a Mother. But her seed encompass both Christian and Israelite. The Man-Child comes from a "sign". There is a Dragon that has little more than 3 ½ years left to operate. He has been an accuser of the Brethren. The Woman delivers and immediately flees to the wilderness. The Man-Child escapes the Dragon. The Man-Child displaces the Dragon. the woman must face its wrath for 1260 days. God does not help - the earth does. the Beast sends his army after the Woman.

If the Man-Child was Jesus it would cause the following difficulties. They are the same if you use Israel instead of Mary:
Mary was never in heaven, especially when pregnant
Mary is not a "sign". She is real
Mary did not have other seed before Jesus
Mary did not have seed who made up the Church
Mary did not bring forth Israel, or its Remnant
Mary did not face the Dragon
Mary did not flee to the wilderness
Mary did not live in the wilderness for 1260 days
Mary was not nourished by God
Jesus was not raptured to the throne directly after His birth
Jesus did not escape the Dragon

... and there are more. If the argument is made that the Woman is the same as Joseph's dream of Genesis 37, we must refuse that. The "sign" of Revelation 12 is different to the dream in every detail except maybe the number 12

Thanks for your understanding brother.

So far is good, we are around revelation 12, and there are sections in that chapter still to be mentioned. 

The likes of verse 10 of revelation 12. 

NASB 1977
20. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night.

* This is unique because it says: I heard a loud voice in Heaven saying. 

Now the Salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come...

All this has happened more than two thousand years ago.  

We are living in the Salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ since the death of Jesus on the Cross..John heard those words spoken in Heaven when he was very old, quite some time and times and a half. Jesus had died a few decades earlier before those words were spoken.  

John heard something that it is within his knowledge that it has already happened.  

To have the Salvation we must have Jesus died on the Cross...the Salvation was made for the whole world. 

And since that time the Salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ has come to the world, in all the Nations of the Earth day in and day out without any interference, continuously since that time.  

* The Gospel of Luke describing the birth of Jesus in chapter one it has been written or the particular have been made known to the disciples and to John.

Everything the voice in Heaven said in verse 10 are things that John can relate to and are things John has been preaching.  

Luke 1:26 to 28

26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 

27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God.

31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”

38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her

* Isaiah 7:14 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you  a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.  

Isaiah 9: 6, For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[Vine Abider]

10 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

* This is unique because it says: I heard a loud voice in Heaven saying. 

Now the Salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come...

All this has happened more than two thousand years ago.  

From what is stated in chapter 1 (twice), Revelation is a book looking to the future, not backward.  So when John received the vision in chapter 12, the events you cite with Jesus and Mary already happened.  This doesn't fit the criteria, therefore the manchild is yet to come.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Vine Abider
For better clarity

[AdHoc]

15 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

So far is good, we are around revelation 12, and there are sections in that chapter still to be mentioned. 

The likes of verse 10 of revelation 12. 

NASB 1977
20. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night.

* This is unique because it says: I heard a loud voice in Heaven saying. 

Now the Salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come...

All this has happened more than two thousand years ago.  

We are living in the Salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ since the death of Jesus on the Cross..John heard those words spoken in Heaven when he was very old, quite some time and times and a half. Jesus had died a few decades earlier before those words were spoken.  

John heard something that it is within his knowledge that it has already happened.  

To have the Salvation we must have Jesus died on the Cross...the Salvation was made for the whole world. 

And since that time the Salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ has come to the world, in all the Nations of the Earth day in and day out without any interference, continuously since that time.  

* The Gospel of Luke describing the birth of Jesus in chapter one it has been written or the particular have been made known to the disciples and to John.

Everything the voice in Heaven said in verse 10 are things that John can relate to and are things John has been preaching.  

Luke 1:26 to 28

26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 

27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God.

31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”

38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her

* Isaiah 7:14 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you  a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.  

Isaiah 9: 6, For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

Our Lord Jesus prayed; "Thy (God's) Kingdom COME, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven".

You will know when this Kingdom has come.
Jesus will be present on earth.
Jesus will live in Jerusalem
The cities of the earth will have Christian kings
There will be no war
There will be big harvests
There will be "righteousness, peace and joy"
The deserts will bloom except Edom
Israel will be resurrected and a united Nation ALL living in their Land
Men will be reckoned as babes if they die at a hundred years
No other religion will be tolerated
Criminals will be dealt with commensurately
David will be deputy king of Israel
The Twelve Apostles will rule the twelve Tribes of Israel

It all starts with Jesus bursting through the clouds over the mount of Olives.

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

From what is stated in chapter 1 (twice), Revelation is a book looking to the future, not backward.  So when John received the vision in chapter 12, the events you cite with Jesus and Mary already happened.  This doesn't fit the criteria, therefore the manchild is yet to come.

 

Revelation 1:1-3. 

1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

And Revelation 1:18-19.. 

18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.

*** Anyone who post and saying: this is what is written in the scriptures he should if possible copy and paste the scriptures for the readers to imediatly read be able to compare what the scriptures say with the statement of the poster who by memory have said what he thinks the scripture says.

This is what you wrote down in the beginning of your quoted post above."From what is stated in chapter 1 (twice), Revelation is a book looking to the future, not backward." 

And above I have copy and paste the two relevant scriptures from chapter one. 1:1,1:19...

Since that time 2,000 years has gone by and you have to reconsider what you saying that there are only future events described in the book of revelation. 

From the factual statements in the book regarding the message to the churches, to informed them how Jesus has evaluated them regarding to what the believe and to what they are doing and even how much they Love the brotherhood and those who need to hear the Gospel and how much they love him and about the situations in each of their churches.  

John got informed but for the churches and the people in General to be informed about what John already knows what Jesus promised to do with them accordingly to their response after they received the message..

The act of informing the churches is something soon to take place, because it is a future act but it also came with a specific time table...it did not come without a time table...

If it says "soon" the "soon" it will take place soon and it comes with the promise that those who first hear what it was promised to take place soon in their life time. 

What Jesus said to those churches it will take place soon.

But this is not the end because beginning with them the same thing takes place continously till our days and it will continue to take place. 

It will come the time when Jesus will evaluate the different churches through out the world and he will continously will in the appropriate time evaluate the believers as individuals.