The woman in Revelation 12

[Shilohsfoal]

I believe we will know who the woman is after the armed forces of the north arrive in Israel and begin to practice the authority of the Israeli goverment of its behalf. At that time, Benjamin Netanyahu's cashless society will be ready for its next faze and those who don't want to take the mark of the beast will leave. 

But the saints who choose to stay will be persecuted for their testimony and for warning the people. 

 

Daniel 11:33

And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

 

Pretty bad when your persecuted for being a watchman. 

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

Not settled on the meaning of this:

Rev 12- 16- And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 

I have thought that it was perhaps something to do with Christians worldwide in an outcry or other effort.

Or, even though the timing seems to be off, a connection to:

Rev 11:13-  And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

 

 

Hard to say.  I heard a brother speaking yesterday on chapter 12, and he said it was very difficult to determine what this flood coming out of the dragon's mouth is, and most commentators appear puzzled too.  However, to take a guess, if it's coming out of his mouth it's sure to be lies and misinformation! Now the earth swallowing up the flood . . . completely clueless! 

[Your closest friendnt]

21 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

How is the woman in Rev 12 Mary, that is, clothed with the sun, standing on the moon and holding the 12 stars?  Where in scripture is Mary ever depicted like that?  And when did Mary go into the wilderness for that period of time which is stated, which is the exact time of the last 3.5 years? (plus, regarding the account of Joseph, Mary & Jesus fleeing to Egypt in Matthew 2:13-23 . . . the time doesn't line up with 3.5 years, and I don't think Egypt is ever referred to as a "wilderness" any where else)

 

21 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

And Revelation is a vision of that which is about to happen, not what was in the past. (see Rev 1:1) The birth of Jesus is past, even in John's day.

This is from*Rev 1:19 niv,

“Write, therefore, what you have seen,        what is now and what will take place later."

Those words were spoken to John 2.000 years ago...the later is an expanse beginning from the time of John...

* Rev 4:1 niv. After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "come up here and I will show you what must take place after this."

The Woman and the Dragon

12:1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.  

2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragonbwith seven heads  and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 

4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 

***5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.  

Verse 5 intensifies the child, if we know for whom it was said and if it was said for Jesus that he will ruled all the Nations with an Iron scepter then we can identify the woman who gave birth to him...

*"The child was snatched up to God and to his Throne",

And we know who was as ascended to God and to his Throne then we can identify the child as Jesus and we can know the woman who gave birth to him.  

[WilliamL]

On 11/4/2022 at 8:01 AM, Uriah said:

I have heard some viewpoints on this topic but probably not all. Please share your thoughts on this. I will add a couple things later today on this topic. 

2) Who is the Woman? Like the Manchild, the Woman-with-child is a mystical body. Not the Church, which is a Virgin Bride. And not the race of Israel, which is flesh-and-blood.

Western left-brain Protestant Christianity has largely ignored any concept of the Feminine Divine, even though the Adamic race was “made in Elohim’s image, male and female.” Gen. 1:27 Catholicism has carnalized the Feminine Divine into the person of Mary. Only mystical Judaism, and to some extent mystical Christianity, have spoken of the Feminine Divine.

Hebraic teachings of old say that one of the attributes of the One God is the emotional desire to form, gestate, bring forth and nurture living creatures. This tradition also says that when Adam and Eve were driven out of God’s garden into the earthly wilderness, this Divine Feminine either went with them or regularly visited them, in order to nurture her children as any mother would. The most well-known name for her is the Shekhinah, the feminine Presence/form of the Divine.

This mystical Woman/mother – emotionally bound to the nurturing of her children, and to their upbringing in wisdom, righteousness, and maturity – is spoken of in Ezekiel:

Ezek. 19:2, 10-13 What is thy mother? A lioness: she lay down among lions, she nourished her whelps among young lions. … Thy mother is like a vine in thy blood [the place of the soul, Lev. 17:11], planted by the waters: she was fruitful and full of branches by reason of many waters. And she had strong rods for the scepters of them that bore rule, and her stature was exalted among the thick branches, and she appeared in her height with the multitude of her branches. But she was plucked up in fury, she was cast down to the ground, and the east wind dried up her fruit: her strong rods were broken and withered; the fire consumed them. And now she is planted in the wilderness, in a dry and thirsty ground.

In Revelation 12’s account of the End Times, the Woman again goes “into the wilderness” when her offspring are driven out once more. Rev. 12:6, 14-17; Luke 21:36

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1053-revelation-12/

 

[Vine Abider]

10 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

 

Verse 5 intensifies the child, if we know for whom it was said and if it was said for Jesus that he will ruled all the Nations with an Iron scepter then we can identify the woman who gave birth to him...

 

I'll just pick out one thing we can focus on at a time - Jesus Himself is not the only one that will "rule the nations with an iron rod."  This is also said of His overcomers in Rev. 2:27. So do you see from this that there is a slight possibility that it's perhaps not Jesus it's referring to here?

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

I heard a brother speaking yesterday on chapter 12, and he said it was very difficult to determine what this flood coming out of the dragon's mouth is, and most commentators appear puzzled too.  However, to take a guess, if it's coming out of his mouth it's sure to be lies and misinformation! Now the earth swallowing up the flood . . . completely clueless! 

According to the ante-type during the days of the Exodus, these things take place during the !st and 2nd Seals:

The 7 Seals of Revelation: Testing and Purification During and Soon After the Great Tribulation

1st Seal, Exodus Antetype: Early in the Exodus, the god-Pharaoh and his nobles mobilized a massive army to conquer and re-enslave the Israelites. Ex. 14:5ff.; Jasher 81:8ff.

End Times: A white horse: false christs bent on conquest. “The Serpent [Satan] spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the Woman…” Rev. 6:1-2; 12:15; Matt. 24:5

2nd Seal, Exodus: The army of Egypt was destroyed: “The earth swallowed them.” Ex. 15:12

End Times: A red horse: “wars and rumors of wars.” “…the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the flood which the Dragon [Satan] had spewed out…” Rev. 6:3-4; 12:16; Matt. 24:6-7a

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1992-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-2/

 

[Vine Abider]

4 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

According to the ante-type during the days of the Exodus, these things take place during the !st and 2nd Seals:

The 7 Seals of Revelation: Testing and Purification During and Soon After the Great Tribulation

1st Seal, Exodus Antetype: Early in the Exodus, the god-Pharaoh and his nobles mobilized a massive army to conquer and re-enslave the Israelites. Ex. 14:5ff.; Jasher 81:8ff.

End Times: A white horse: false christs bent on conquest. “The Serpent [Satan] spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the Woman…” Rev. 6:1-2; 12:15; Matt. 24:5

2nd Seal, Exodus: The army of Egypt was destroyed: “The earth swallowed them.” Ex. 15:12

End Times: A red horse: “wars and rumors of wars.” “…the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the flood which the Dragon [Satan] had spewed out…” Rev. 6:3-4; 12:16; Matt. 24:6-7a

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1992-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-2/

 

Yes, also these verses in Numbers 16: 

³⁰ But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the Lord.

³¹ And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:

³² And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.

[WilliamL]

10 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Jesus Himself is not the only one that will "rule the nations with an iron rod."  This is also said of His overcomers in Rev. 2:27. So do you see from this that there is a slight possibility that it's perhaps not Jesus it's referring to here?

Well said.

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked and beheld a door standing open in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show thee things which must take place after these [things].

Everything John was shown from Rev. 4:1 onward is future from – “after” – his day. This includes everything in chapter 12. The birth and ascent of the Manchild that John saw in Rev. 12:5 are future; although the birth and ascent of Jesus was of the same pattern and type. Jesus himself tells us who the Manchild shall be:

Rev. 2:26-27 The one overcoming, and the one keeping my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: and he shall shepherd/pastor them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to pieces: as I also have received from my Father.

Rev. 12:5 She bore a Manchild, who is about to shepherd/pastor all nations with a rod of iron.

Rev. 12:7-11 then reveals that this Manchild, a collective body, the elect-of-the-elect overcomers, will participate in the casting down of Satan and his angels out of heaven:

Rev. 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon [Satan]… 11 And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their souls unto death.

The “they” of verse 11 cannot refer to any non-human angels, only to men, that is, to those ascended overcomers of the Manchild(ren) cleansed and empowered by the blood of Jesus.

These events take place “at the time of the end” (Dan. 11:40), the “time Michael shall stand up” (Dan. 12:1; Rev. 12:7), just prior to and during “a time of trouble such as never was” (Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:21), that is, the Great Tribulation.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1053-revelation-12/

 

[Selah7]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Hard to say.  I heard a brother speaking yesterday on chapter 12, and he said it was very difficult to determine what this flood coming out of the dragon's mouth is, and most commentators appear puzzled too.  However, to take a guess, if it's coming out of his mouth it's sure to be lies and misinformation! Now the earth swallowing up the flood . . . completely clueless! 

Yes, that’s what I think.  A flood of lies and deception.  Many times in His Word, God tells us not to be deceived.  -s.

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Hebraic teachings of old say that one of the attributes of the One God is the emotional desire to form, gestate, bring forth and nurture living creatures. This tradition also says that when Adam and Eve were driven out of God’s garden into the earthly wilderness, this Divine Feminine either went with them or regularly visited them, in order to nurture her children as any mother would. The most well-known name for her is the Shekhinah, the feminine Presence/form of the Divine.

Hadn't heard this stuff before.