Is it possible that homosexuality is a birth defect?

[Not of the World]

5 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

"orientation" may or may not be chosen, but participation in sin is a choice!

Yes, engaging in sin is indeed a choice and the Bible is very clear that engaging in homosexual behavior is an abomination.  That is not open for conjecture or debate.  

 

[Sower]

5 hours ago, Not of the World said:

Your characterism of what I've said here is inaccurate.  I simply posited that "natural" born homosexuality is a birth defect caused by the broken state of this world.  I have NO PROBLEM with anyone disagreeing with that view but others apparently have a problem with my expressing it.  I noticed that you don't take any issue with their anger.  

I have no problem with what you posted, though I not sure of your conclusion.   The post I made was not aimed at you. I will often remind everybody that we have a large audience of viewers and seekers. So...

"This Op and winning the debate is not what's important."

Our witness, our conduct, how a seeker views if these "Christians" here behave them selves, or not.

And then there another consideration.  Our Abba Father is watching us to see how well His ambassadors are representing Him to those that are seeking hope.
 

[Omegaman 3.0]

8 minutes ago, Not of the World said:

There are many unbelievers that claim that one can be "good" and "moral" without God.  Would you say that this verse addresses the concept of "goodness" without God?

I think there is a kind of morality built into people. No one is all good or all bad. Maybe Hitler gave his mom flowers on mother's day, I don't know, but people do show acts of kindness to strangers, whether they are believers or not.

And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

I would have to say, that answering your question is not possible apart from a definition of what "good' and "moral" even mean! The kind of good necessary to live in eternity with God, is perfection, total sinlessness. No human, apart from Jesus, has managed that.

The way I illustrate that, is I imagine a bucket of pure white paint. If you drop just one drop of black paint into that bucket, that .001% of black paint, has turned the paint grey, no matter how white it might appear to us, it is no longer pure. We humans are all some shade of grey, so no one is really good. On the plus side, no one is pure evil either.

I am saddened by the Bible's description of humanity:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”

I am ashamed to be apart of that. However, understanding that of myself, I am all the more grateful that the righteousness of Christ has been imputed to me, I am justified  -
"just as if i'd" never sinned.

The morality that people think they have without God, is all fine and dandy, but it will not get them to heaven!

[Not of the World]

5 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

imagine a bucket of pure white paint. If you drop just one drop of black paint into that bucket, that .001% of black paint, has turned the paint grey, no matter how white it might appear to us, it is no longer pure.

I like the analogy.

[Not of the World]

6 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

...a definition of what "good' and "moral" even mean!

I've told my children that "good" is that which is pleasing to God and "bad" is that which goes against his commandments.  Simplistic but effective, I believe.  

[Omegaman 3.0]

4 minutes ago, Not of the World said:

I've told my children that "good" is that which is pleasing to God and "bad" is that which goes against his commandments.  Simplistic but effective, I believe.  

Not bad! Of course one of the commandments is to love God with everything you have (my paraphrase). Your definition for your kids reminds me of Heb 11:6:

And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek Him.

[Not of the World]

1 minute ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

 

 

2 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Not bad! Of course one of the commandments is to love God with everything you have (my paraphrase).

Yes, I have shared the Great Commandment with them many times.  Love God, follow his commandments, and LOVE one another.  That last part can be really hard at times, as evidenced in this thread.  

[Omegaman 3.0]

2 minutes ago, Not of the World said:

Yes, I have shared the Great Commandment with them many times.  Love God, follow his commandments, and LOVE one another.  That last part can be really hard at times, as evidenced in this thread.

It is not as hard when we understand love is a behavior, not always a warm fuzzy feeling!

[JohnD]

22 hours ago, Not of the World said:

I believe some are "born" gay. Is it possible that such an unnatural desire is, in some cases, a birth defect just like being born with only one arm is a birth defect?  

Some people are born homosexual.

Why is that any harder to believe than any other proclivity of our fallen sin nature?

Some people do not believe in God or fear him and see no reason not to pursue lust wherever whenever it avails.

Some are deliberate degenerates, sociopaths etc.

Some people simply accept love where they can find it: for example a girl who is very masculine or a guy who is very feminine find it almost impossible to relate to the opposite sex or they are ridiculed by most. Along comes someone of the same gender who loves and accepts them for who they are... 

I think that the hard line anti-homosexuality stance in the Church has driven away people who need Jesus just as much as we all do.

God's perfect Law is out of reach for human beings (of all walks of life).

He gave the Law to us to show we cannot keep it and to trust him instead and his grace and mercy make up our shortcomings via the cross of Christ.

Try showing somebody gay a loving Heavenly Father and introduce them to his Son.

[Vine Abider]

11 hours ago, JohnD said:

Some people are born homosexual.

Why is that any harder to believe than any other proclivity of our fallen sin nature?

This, like my dad would say, is a little like "trying to corner Jello." I believe we are all born with sin, so yes, that includes the ability to become homosexual.  But it also contains the ability to become a drunkard, a murderer, a liar, an adulterer and so forth. 

In the right atmosphere and influence, any of these may come out.  The influence on this world is from one who is out to kill, steal and destroy, so whichever one of these things he can help push us toward is fine with him.  "We wrestle not with flesh and blood . . ."

But praise God He sent His son to die for us and come live in us - "Greater is He who lives in you than he who lives in the world!"