Is it possible that homosexuality is a birth defect?

[Roymond]

On 11/14/2022 at 8:51 PM, com7fy8 said:

Well, do we believe that we all were born in sin? If all of us were, then all of us were born wrong!

So, already, we were in demonic power, just by being born in sin. However, there could have been different things that happened to each of us, because of demons, while we developed in sin. Possibly, demons can specialize children in different sorts of sin-styles.

But - - in every child of Satan's kingdom there is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:2)

This spirit of sin and selfishness "works" in disobedient people. I understand this working of Satan in a person includes emotions that work very hard to get selfish pleasure.

And sexual sensations are a treasure pleasure for people in sin; because they are not so specially satisfied by sharing with God in His Heavenly love so beautifully wondrous and pleasant and tenderly resting and soothing us.

But ones of a Satanic spirit can get very desperate to feel something nicer than their awful mess and misery of sin. And so, they can't take no for an answer, plus enough can never be enough. And they can do quite lunatic things to enforce that they get the pleasure they prefer.

I think you can see how gays, then, are not the only ones with the problem of treasuring pleasure because they are missing out on how they could enjoy tenderly sharing with God in His family while loving any and all people of this world.

Gays qualify for the welfare of God's mercy, the same as anyone else in sin. But ones accuse Christians of discriminating against gays; yet, those accusers are themselves discriminating against gays, by saying gays don't need the forgiveness of Jesus on the cross.

Plus, ones are discriminating by saying gays can't change and become free of their preferences and dominating drives. But Jesus in His love and emotions is "gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls" > in Matthew 11:28-30 > Jesus calls "all" to this; so Jesus guarantees this to "all" > as we can see in Matthew 11:28-30.

After all, God's peace is almighty.

While we obey how God's word says to pray > "the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:7)

So, any gay person is called by Jesus to have this almighty peace which is almighty to easily protect him or her from cruel and dominating, dictatorial drives for wrong pleasure. Even if demons attack you with such stuff, you can be safe and sober and sound in your "hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."

But many people do not experience how God's almighty peace guards our "minds"; and so they suppose that therefore gays also can't change.

But God's word is guaranteed to succeed in all He means, right? Isaiah 55:11 

This reminds me of something a Lutheran theologian from Australia once said:  every sin is the result of seeking something God intends for us -- in a wrong way.

[Roymond]

On 11/15/2022 at 12:30 PM, JohnR7 said:

This is the link I was referring to.

 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190709091117.htm

This has to do with the nature vs nurture discussion that has been going on for a very long time in science. Now we have new studies and new information, so we can add to our understanding. 

In this case, the discussion has to do with BOTH memory AND instinct. This also has to do with DNA and Evolutionary science. The discussion has to do "birth defects".  Can something we inherit cause homosexuality. I bring up TWO points for consideration. The memories or instincts we inherit AND generational curses. 

 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190709091117.htm

Most Christians believe we can be healed and delivered from generational curses and birth defects. This is by definition a miracle from God. Not something we can do using positive thinking and the power of suggestion or the placebo effect. 

My father was an expert on hypnosis and he would hypnotize whole audiences. Once they invited him to my school to hypnotize the whole school. He was a medical doctor. He used the science to verify what is and what is not true. 

I had a discussion with a doctor a while back who followed research about inheritance closely.  He said that it has been established now that epigenetic traits can be transmitted from one generation to the next, so if for example your grandfather was born with the possibility of bipolar disorder and then underwent a traumatic event that turned the bipolar "switch" to "on", that change could well have been transmitted to your father in the "on" position and he would have manifested the disorder as a child already (this answered a previously baffling question of why there are children who suffer from bipolar disorder despite having never themselves undergone traumatic events) -- and that if your father inherited that from your grandfather, you may well have the condition also.  But following some families who had this issue also showed that as the generations go by the tendency will be for this "switch" to pop back into the  normal position, so somewhere around the sixth generation the malady doesn't get passed on.

And the  opposite can happen: someone born with the switch in neutral can undergo such a wonderful set of experiences that the switch can be flipped to "off" and their descendants would inherit it that way.

It's kind of scary to think that because my dad underwent traumatic stuff in WWII, I was born with a "switch setting" that inclines me to have a disorder like his.

[Roymond]

On 11/15/2022 at 12:34 PM, JohnR7 said:

There are things I would like to forget. At least God is able to forgive and forget or we would all be in trouble. 

 

And in the end, He gets rid of the sea!

"... and the sea was no more."

[Roymond]

On 11/17/2022 at 3:29 PM, FreeGrace said:

A desire is a thought, an urge.  Not a physical characteristic. 

 

Biology tells us otherwise.  Cravings are just one example.

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Roymond said:

So depending on what you mean by "compromise", I may or may not agree.  If you mean not backing down that Christians call actual homosexual sex sin, then absolutely we don't compromise!  But if you mean getting involved politically and condemning them publicly, that's not standing firm, that's having your priorities wrong!  Every moment spent in political action is a moment not spent loving others and showing them a life that says, "Christ has changed me for the better".

Precisely, my friend. Well said.

You've posted some outstanding contributions to this topic and instead of replying to each one with "Well said", I'm covering all the bases by quoting what I believe to be the heart of what you've written thus far. Showing others this life which Christ has given to us is what it's all about, and I'm reminded of my old friend and brother who instilled the same in me when I was wide-eyed and clueless. That was a long time ago, but the Lord reunited us after decades of being apart.  

The Lord did not impart a spirit of shrill condemnation upon us; He gave Himself to us, and at no time are we to be defined by what we oppose. Not at all. We are defined by our love of the Lord and love for our neighbor. 

Your understanding of those passages from Romans is astonishing, Roymond. I have considered this nuanced position and in light of the historical context, I can't find any fault with what you've written. All I can say is this: I never considered that before, but then I've never been one for posturing and championing political causes. I was indeed wide-eyed and clueless when our Lord Jesus Christ snatched me from this world, so I don't have to wrestle with a lifetime of religious conditioning in these matters. 

I understand that such is not the case for others, so I remember the mercy which the Lord charged me toward extend to others no matter who they are. I appreciate the nuanced understanding you've shared with us here.  

Edited December 18, 2022 by Marathoner
typo

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, Roymond said:

(this answered a previously baffling question of why there are children who suffer from bipolar disorder despite having never themselves undergone traumatic events)

It is well established by Dr Ornish that the switch can be turned off even if it is a geneational issue. 

I think this is an issue with slavery before the civil war. There are people today that feel that have inheritied that trama from their ancestors. Science would tend to confirm tha this is true. 

So far we have only figured out 5% of he DNA. We still do not know what the other 95% does. We continue to learn a lot in leaps and bounds. 

[FreeGrace]

5 hours ago, Roymond said:

Biology tells us otherwise.  Cravings are just one example.

This is what I had said:  A desire is a thought, an urge.  Not a physical characteristic. 

Biology?  Really?  What proof do you have to support your idea?

If your idea is true, then God created man with lots of flaws.  Is that your position?

[AnOrangeCat]

8 hours ago, Roymond said:

This reminds me of something a Lutheran theologian from Australia once said:  every sin is the result of seeking something God intends for us -- in a wrong way.

This is something I think is largely true. There's probably some things outside of that scope but when you look at a lot of them they're closely related to our biological drives and functions, just gone out of control. The Bible calling it the flesh is really on target.

[grahampaul]

16 hours ago, Roymond said:

Yes:  if people are born that way, which seems to commonly be the case, then continuing to decry it as a "choice" makes Christians look ignorant and bigoted.

On 11/11/2022 at 2:11 AM, grahampaul said:

weather born that way or a chosen way, the choice is still there.

[Waggles]

All humans are born liars - children at a young age will tell lies and fibs to avoid punishment or to get something they want - it takes a great deal of parental and peer effort to teach children that too much lying is bad character and costs friendships.

Lev 19:11  “You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; you shall not lie to one another.

Num 23:19  God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

So should we make excuses for telling lies (being deceitful) because it is in our nature to do so ?? It is in our genes.

The whole purpose of being born from above and receiving the indwelling Spirit of God is to have the power to overcome the flesh and sin. And if we need to overcome homosexual acts or fornication or adultery or lusting then so be it.