The souls under the altar (Rev. 6:9-11); are they killed before or during the tribulation period?

[The Light]

26 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

So, you ADDED a trump?  I rest my case

So you lack understanding and then sit on your fingers? There is no trump added. How is it when Paul wrote about the last trump, and Revelation had not been written you don't see an explanation written be Paul latter on.........such as...?

Greeting brothers and sisters. I'm sorry for the confusion regarding the last trump. When I said the Lord would return at the last trump, I guess I should have clued you in on what's going to happen. Sometime around 95 AD give or take, John is going to receive a revelation from the Lord. He will write down the events that will occur during the end times. He will then tell you about the seven trumpets blown by angels. At that time, you will be able to understand what the last trump is. So quit being confused and wait until John writes Revelation so you will understand.

We see no clarification as none was needed. All the Jews knew what the last trump is. Any somewhat knowledgeable Jew of today should be able to tell you what the last trump is.  So no trump is added, just a little understanding is needed.

[DeighAnn]

39 minutes ago, The Light said:

Hold the phone. So you were able to understand Revelation 12 clearly enough. I told you if you understood those verses in Revelation 12 you would have your answer. 

Let me ask you again. How is it possible that those verses in Revelation 12 happen AFTER the seals are opened. If you understand that, you have your answer. So why are you carrying on about possibilities of this, that and the other when you already have the answer that should keep you from asking these questions.

IF you are tying to say that GOD wrote the BIBLE so that ONLY WISE MEN who go into

'there is no time with God'

so all this works out, 

you are addressing the wrong person, because that is just ANOTHER EXCUSE to put a doctrine THAT DOESN'T WORK OUT USING WHAT IS WRITTEN, IN FAVOR OF 'HATH GOD SAID', PURE AND SIMPLE. 

so

THEY DIDN'T HAPPEN at the 'opening of the seal' IT IS A BOOK OF INFORMATION THAT CAN SAVE YOUR SOUL IF YOU READ IT. 

NONE of the stuff happened RIGHT WHEN the seals were opened, 

WHICH LEAVES US WITH????

THE INFORMATION IN THE BOOK being made available, so the SERVANTS OF GOD COULD BE SEALED. 

The words of God TELL US

RATHER than US TELLING THEM.


"And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:" Isaiah 29:11 KJV


"Write ye also for the Jews, as it liketh you, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's ring: for the writing which is written in the king's name, and sealed with the king's ring, may no man reverse." Esther 8:8 KJV


"And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." Daniel 12:9 KJV


"When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain." Romans 15:28 KJV


"Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads." Revelation 7:3 KJV
 

Edited March 19, 2023 by DeighAnn

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, The Light said:

So you lack understanding and then sit on your fingers? There is no trump added. How is it when Paul wrote about the last trump, and Revelation had not been written you don't see an explanation written be Paul latter on.........such as...?

GOD KNOWING HIS PLAN BACKWARDS AND FORWARDS and the writers just being scribes.  

And no, not sitting on my fingers with lack of understanding.  No, I got a very important phone call that I have been on ever since I stopped typing.  That call ended a minute ago.  SO, DROP the accusations and the insinuations that I lack understanding because I put what is written over what is surmised.  

YOU uses feasts and harvest TO APPOINT meaning, I go by what is actually written.  

Harvest at the end is let them grow together and they will be separated then.  

You feasts have 'parts,' 'of parts of them', being cleaved off at different times.  Doesn't even come close to a fit.  Not to mention no one can simply show it anywhere.  

Using the feasts, for the timing of resurrections CONTRIDICT what is written about the harvest.  But no matter???


THE WORDS OF GOD ARE PERFECT. 

No matter who wrote WHAT, WHEN, its GODS PLAN, not mans.  We don't look for excuses or explanations when none is needed

and a TRUMP sounding at the RETURN of CHRIST needs no explanation especially when it is the last, the 7th one. 

And here is the REAL PROBLEM,

It does fit perfectly as given in the words of God
AS the 7th Trump,
AS the last trump,
AS the trump of God. 

And IF IT DOES THAT, then how can that be WRONG and something else be right? 

Revelation is very specific.  7 Seals, 7 Trumps, 7 Vials. The ONLY thing a random 'trump' in any end time verses would do, IS CAUSE CONFUSION.  That is not GODS domain.  



 

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, The Light said:

Greeting brothers and sisters. I'm sorry for the confusion regarding the last trump. When I said the Lord would return at the last trump, I guess I should have clued you in on what's going to happen. Sometime around 95 AD give or take, John is going to receive a revelation from the Lord. He will write down the events that will occur during the end times. He will then tell you about the seven trumpets blown by angels. At that time, you will be able to understand what the last trump is. So quit being confused and wait until John writes Revelation so you will understand.

They were given all the information they needed and wasn't going to effect them, IT JUST HAD TO BE PASSED ON.  Last trump to them was last trump it had no meaning.  What would have been confusing?  It was just info to them.  AND if they would have studied the OT they would have figured out the 'end times' weren't coming until 1948 at the earliest by then. 

 THEY never had all the books OPEN.  We do.  Should we be using the knowledge that has been passed down from 

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Or should we go with GOD pouring out the Spirit and the Book of Daniel being OPENED UP for the first time and what we are being given NOW?  

WHERE exactly do you think Satan works his hardest?  On those who are ALREADY of the world? 

What makes void the words of God?  



1(To the chief Musician upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David.) Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

2They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.

3The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:

4Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

5For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

8The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.


Only ONE WAY everyone can agree and fight off the lies...The first words of the Ministry of our Lord and Saviour 
 

1And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

2Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

3And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

4And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

 



If what is written isn't what is meant
while what isn't written is,  
we are lost

[Montana Marv]

Who says the last Trump is the 7th trumpet blast from an angel.

There are blasts from a trumpet to send off. And there are trumpet blasts which gather people. There are blasts which warrant attention. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[WilliamL]

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

a TRUMP sounding at the RETURN of CHRIST needs no explanation especially when it is the last, the 7th one. 

According to your rationalization.

Nothing in New Testament doctrine actually says that the 7th Trump of Rev. 11 is the "last trump" ever to be blown.

Whereas pre-Christian Hebraic doctrine provides a whole different meaning for the term "last trumpet/shofar." Paul was an expert on Hebraic doctrine, having been taught by the master rabbi Gamaliel, and there is a good case to be made that he was referring to that doctrine in his epistle.

2. The Last Shofar: The Latter Horn of Redemption

Provides the Hebraic origin of, and explanation for, Paul’s use of the term “the Last Trumpet” in 1 Corinthians 15:51; then explains its connection to Paul’s often-ignored Rapture prophecy in Hebrews 12:18-28. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/840-the-last-shofar-the-latter-horn-of-redemption/

 

[DeighAnn]

2 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

According to your

Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

16Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

18For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Nothing in New Testament doctrine actually says that the 7th Trump of Rev. 11 is the "last trump" ever to be blown.

Whereas pre-Christian Hebraic doctrine provides a whole different meaning for the term "last trumpet/shofar." Paul was an expert on Hebraic doctrine, having been taught by the master rabbi Gamaliel, and there is a good case to be made that he was referring to that doctrine in his epistle.

2. The Last Shofar: The Latter Horn of Redemption

Provides the Hebraic origin of, and explanation for, Paul’s use of the term “the Last Trumpet” in 1 Corinthians 15:51; then explains its connection to Paul’s often-ignored Rapture prophecy in Hebrews 12:18-28. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/840-the-last-shofar-the-latter-horn-of-redemption/

 

So, having Christs 2nd Advent come at the Last TRUMP,

THE TRUMP OF GOD

WHEN HE RETURNS AS LORD OF LORD AND KING OF KINGS

AND THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD BECOME HIS,  

is 'rationalization' on MY PART?   It doesn't just come across so perfect that there is no need to look elsewhere for anything?

Are you saying THAT IT CAN'T BE THE 7TH TRUMP?  If it isn't, then when does the 7th trump sound?  And what for?  And what happens?  

 

So I can understand how going to the JEWISH TRADITIONS for the Gentile Church, isn't 'rationalization'.    

NOW HEBREWS?  You're got to be kidding me. 
OK, here I go....

Heb 12
12Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

16Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

18For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
 

Whoops, I must have gotten that wrong, WHERE am I supposed to go?

 

[WilliamL]

10 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Whoops, I must have gotten that wrong, WHERE am I supposed to go?

Says chapter and verses right there in my post, which you apparently didn't bother to read very closely.

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Nothing in New Testament doctrine actually says that the 7th Trump of Rev. 11 is the "last trump" ever to be blown.

Yes the 7th angel sounding is the 7th and "Last Trump", basic elementary orthodox christianity

[WilliamL]

5 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Yes the 7th angel sounding is the 7th and "Last Trump", basic elementary orthodox christianity

Well, maybe your orthodoxy, and that of some others.

But hardly an official doctrine of any Church that I know of. Certainly not of any pre-Tribbers or pre-Wrathers, who put Christ's return to resurrect the dead well before the 7th trumpet is ever blown.