The souls under the altar (Rev. 6:9-11); are they killed before or during the tribulation period?

[The Light]

3 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I completely understand where your coming from on what you said. I'm just not sure I can see the 144,000 as another rapture.

Actually, I did not say the 144,000 were another rapture. I said they were first fruits that proves that there will be another rapture. When you have acceptable first fruits that means there will be a harvest (rapture).

Now that I've said that, the 144,000 are actually raptured from the earth when they become first fruits. Here is the proof of that.

Revelation 14

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

3 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I've always believed ( and many rapture pastors agree with it ) that the 144,000 are simply Jews who turn to faith in Christ during the tribulation and evangelize the whole world with Supernatural power from God. I don't see anything in the text that actually shows a rapture. 

Look at the above scripture and you will see the 144,000 are on Mount Sion with Jesus. They are redeemed from the earth and are before the throne in heaven as first fruits.

Also, I showed you the rapture that the 144,000 are first fruits of. It occurs at the 6th seal and is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 when Jesus sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

[AdHoc]

On 12/20/2022 at 12:23 AM, Revelation Man said:

The Body is never being raised. Its SIN FLESH, it can not go to heaven, that is why the Dead who sleep are raised INCORRUPTIBLE, that simply means as Spirit men(verse 44).

That is why those alive must BE CHANGED.......Flesh and blood can not enter Heaven. It tells us the Dead are raised without corruption, the problem is you do not grasp that that corruption is our sin flesh. When Mary saw Jesus after he was raised in John 20, he told her TOUCH ME NOT, for I have not yet ascended unto the Father [to offer myself as a Sacrifice].

Mary merely touching Jesus would have defiled the Sacrifice, When the 70 opened the Ark of the Covenant they all died. God can not come into the presence of Sin, He has the abundance of the glory, the Holy Spirit can live in our Hearts, God in our Hearts would disintegrate us with his full glory. God the Father has the abundance of the Gory, but Gid the Father, Sin, and Holy Spirit are all exactly alike, in Spirit or in essence, they are Love, Hope, Joy, Peace, Kindness, Honest, etc. etc. But only the Father has the Abundance of the Glory. Our bodies are not going to heaven, we will get new bodies, Satan and his demons have no bodies, yet they travel around, we do not need bodies in order to go to Heaven to get our new Glorious bodies.

Nowhere does it say our bodies are resurrected, verse 44 tells us the Spirit Man is resurrected. WITHOUT Corruptible flesh bodies, and we who are alive are CHANGED, meaning we leave our bodies on earth. No Flesh and Blood can enter Heaven, add it all up brother. No one (save Mases, Elijah/Transfiguration) goes to heaven until the Rapture/End Times. 

God Bless

I think if you went back and read it again you would notice that HEAVEN is not talked about at all. The Body is not fit for THE KINGDOM therefore it needs to be changed.

God bless too.

[Revelation Man]

16 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I think if you went back and read it again you would notice that HEAVEN is not talked about at all. The Body is not fit for THE KINGDOM therefore it needs to be changed.

God bless too.

Correct, but the CHANGING is evident if we just use logic, when do we get our White Robes? In Heaven at the Marriage to the Lamb. The White Robes are our glorious bodies. We will leave our bodies and in nano seconds be in Heaven brother. 

The reason I see this as important is, we see many Christians (wrongly IMHO out of lack of knowledge) saying that the people on earth will think we were all abducted by aliens etc. Well, not if 1 billion bodies are on earth. Now they have a strategy of propaganda incoming, they will say "those people didn't take the COVID 19 shot", or "they caught some crazy virus", lets lock down the world again. My point is the whole angle of deception will not be an alien abduction, but some type of virus, so COVID 19 therefore was Satan's testing ground. Satan is brilliant, he understands the bible. 

There will be no missing humans, our spirit just leave our bodies. 

Think about it, God bless.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Revelation Man

[The Light]

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Correct, but the CHANGING is evident if we just use logic, when d we get our White Robes? In Heaven at the Marriage to the Lamb. The White Robes are our glorious bodies. We will leave our bodies and in nano seconds be in Heaven brother. 

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Here are some with white robes before the marriage supper. 

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The reason I see this as important is, we see many Christians (wrongly IMHO out of lack of knowledge) saying that the people on earth will think we were all abducted by aliens etc. Well, not if 1 billion bodies are on earth. Now they have a strategy, those people didn't take the COVID 19 shot, or caught some crazy virus, lets lock down the world again. My point is the whole angle of deception will not be aliens abduction, but some type of virus, so COVID 19 therefore was Satan's testing ground. Satan is brilliant, he understands the bible. 

There will be no missing humans, our spirit just leave our bodies. 

Think about it, God bless.

They have been priming the world for the moment people disappear for a long, long time. Beam me up Scotty. Many movies have people disappearing. The Avengers. Was watching a movie with someone and toward the end of the movie the person says you'll never guess what's going to happen? I said, a bunch of people are going to disappear. They were shocked and wanted to know how I figured that out. I told them it's in many movies and the world was being primed for that event to occur. If you don't think the alive will be caught up and their bodies changed you should probably read 1 Corinthians 15 again. 

 

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Here are some with white robes before the marriage supper. 

Remember, the Seals are Prophetic Utterances. Those Jesus is showing John are FUTURE DEATHS, they haven't even died yet. God never really speaks unto them, God just knows our every thought before we say it, so Jesus is telling us about the Martyrs, hearts desire, he know they want  vengeance on those alive on earth who killed them, but they must wait for a little season or until the Beasts 42 months of rule is over. Jesus giving them White Robes is symbolic, just like him speaking to them is symbolic, it is meant to show the 7 Churches what is coming in the 70th week tribulations, many Gentiles who convert will be Martyred, but in the end they will get their White Robes just like the rest of us. Jesus doesn't really talk to them, he just knows their hearts desire, even  while sleeping in death awaiting the 2nd Coming. By the way, the Marriage in Rev. 19 happens at the beginning of the 70th week, Rev. 19 covers all 7 years, that is why they have on  White Robes in Rev. 4, 5 and 7. Rev. 6 COMES TRUE in Rev. 8, 9 and 16, those those Martyrs only die starting in those three chapters.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

They have been priming the world for the moment people disappear for a long, long time. Beam me up Scotty. Many movies have people disappearing. The Avengers. Was watching a movie with someone and toward the end of the movie the person says you'll never guess what's going to happen? I said, a bunch of people are going to disappear. They were shocked and wanted to know how I figured that out. I told them it's in many movies and the world was being primed for that event to occur. If you don't think the alive will be caught up and their bodies changed you should probably read 1 Corinthians 15 again. 

That's not going to happen, just another wrong assumption brother. Movies and Hollywood know zero about the Spirit world. You need to read 1 Cor. 15:44 we are RAISED as Spirit men, not flesh men.

 

[The Light]

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 it is meant to show the 7 Churches what is coming in the 70th week tribulations, many Gentiles who convert will be Martyred, but in the end they will get their White Robes just like the rest of us.

The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel and has nothing to do with the Church.

Daniel 9

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The Church will be in heaven before the 70th week begins. See Revelation 4 and 5. The Jews cannot have their blindness removed until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Many of the 12 tribes of Israel will convert to Christianity during the 70th week as God turns His attention to Israel. The harvest of the Gentiles will be over before the 70th week begins. The harvest of the Gentiles during the 70th week will be gleanings of the poor and stranger.

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 By the way, the Marriage in Rev. 19 happens at the beginning of the 70th week,

No. The rider on the white horse, the seventh king, an Antichrist, happens at the beginning of the 70th week. He goes forth conquering and to conquer.

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 19 covers all 7 years, that is why they have on  White Robes in Rev. 4, 5 and 7.

No. Jacob has two brides. The Church will be in heaven 7 years before the wrath God as Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. The seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth, the second bride, will be in heaven the day the wrath of God begins, even as Lot left Sodom the very day destruction started.

Revelation 19 covers one year and one year only, the year of God's wrath.

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 6 COMES TRUE in Rev. 8, 9 and 16, those those Martyrs only die starting in those three chapters.

No. Revelation 6, the 1st six seals take place in the 70th week of Daniel. The 1st 4 seals, the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse are the beginning of sorrows. See Matthew 24. The 5th seal is the Great Tribulation. See Matthew 24. The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus. See Matthew 24.

Revelation 8, 9 and 16 take place during the one year wrath of God. During this time both brides are in heaven for the marriage supper.

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

That's not going to happen, just another wrong assumption brother. Movies and Hollywood know zero about the Spirit world. You need to read 1 Cor. 15:44 we are RAISED as Spirit men, not flesh men.

Satan knows God plan. God obviously told him. How do we know that? We know that from the false religion of Babylon that spread across the earth. The Babylonian religion has a trinity that includes the false savior of the world. The false savior is Tammuz, Horus, Apollo, Thor etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Satan obviously knows about the rapture too. In the 1950's there was so many calls to the White House about cigar shaped alien spaceships that they had to shut down the switch board. Obviously blimps. Then in the 60's and 70's it was all the aliens have abducted me nonsense. Why you discount the obvious plan to explain away the rapture, I can't figure. Just beam me up Scotty. Scotty energize.

Edited December 22, 2022 by The Light

[Revelation Man]

17 hours ago, The Light said:

The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel and has nothing to do with the Church.

 

Wrong brother, unbelieving Gentiles who get saved are the Martyrs, why does this not register? The Jews are PROTECTED by God for 1260 days in the Petra/Bozrah area.

ADD THIS UP.........The Remnant in Rev. 12:17 can ONLY be the Remnant Church, nothing else fits. So, Satan can not get at the Woman (1/3 Jews who repent) so he gets angry and goes after the Remnant who come from the SEED (Jesus) who have the TESTIMONY of Jesus !! Now, the 2/3 Jews who do not Repent do not have the TESTIMONY of Jesus do they? And Zech. 13:8-9 has already said they will die. The 1/3 are PROTECTED so much so that Satan get angry and goes to get the Remnant of the SEED which is Jesus. This can ONLY be the Remnant Gentile Church !! I am good at figuring these things out because God has blessed me. Now, why would you not understand the Remnant Church will be the Martyrs? It can't be the Protected Jews !!

17 hours ago, The Light said:

Many of the 12 tribes of Israel will convert to Christianity during the 70th week as God turns His attention to Israel. The harvest of the Gentiles will be over before the 70th week begins. The harvest of the Gentiles during the 70th week will be gleanings of the poor and stranger.

No, they just accept their Messiah Jesus. And the Harvest of Gentiles is not over, the Martyrs can only be the Gentiles who repent during the 70th week but are not protected by God, because the 5 (virgins) tarried they failed to make the wedding, thus there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

17 hours ago, The Light said:

No. The rider on the white horse, the seventh king, an Antichrist, happens at the beginning of the 70th week. He goes forth conquering and to conquer.

NO..........He is only allowed to rule 1260 days or 42 Months try reading Rev. 13. And 1260 days is HALF of 7 Years. This isn't hard brother, you go down wrong paths, that's why its hard to reconnect with the correct paths later on.

17 hours ago, The Light said:

No. Jacob has two brides. The Church will be in heaven 7 years before the wrath God as Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. The seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth, the second bride, will be in heaven the day the wrath of God begins, even as Lot left Sodom the very day destruction started.

Revelation 19 covers one year and one year only, the year of God's wrath.

The Church is raptured, then 3.5 years after the AGREEMENT or Israel joins the E.U. we get God's Wrath. There are no 12 scattered tribes, that is a figment of your imagination and came from the cultist Herbert W. Armstrong. All 12 Tribes currently live in Israel, unless God lied, He stated in Ezekiel 37 that He brought the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel back into the land. (I want to see you try to spin that).

Rev. 19 covers 7 years, you have to say that because it destroys you understanding of a linear Book of Revelation. We see the Church in heaven BEFORE they (we) get our White Robes !! In Rev. 4, 5, and even 7 we already have on our White Robes !!

17 hours ago, The Light said:

No. Revelation 6, the 1st six seals take place in the 70th week of Daniel. The 1st 4 seals, the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse are the beginning of sorrows. See Matthew 24. The 5th seal is the Great Tribulation. See Matthew 24. The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus. See Matthew 24.

Revelation 8, 9 and 16 take place during the one year wrath of God. During this time both brides are in heaven for the marriage supper.

Rev. 6 is simply Jesus prophesying, makes no difference what anyone "THINKS" tbh, facts are facts. The Sorrows BIRTH the 70th week, this is very, very bad Eschatology. The 6th Seal is another Prophecy, Jesus comes at the 7th Vial, you are very confused my friend.

Rev. 8, 9 and 16 cover the 42 months of God's Wrath in full. Eschatology is not your bag my friend.

17 hours ago, The Light said:

Satan knows God plan. God obviously told him. How do we know that?

We will leave our dead bodies on this earth, they are dead because our Spirits go to be with the Lord, bodies with no spirit = DEAD.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Revelation Man

[The Light]

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Wrong brother, unbelieving Gentiles who get saved are the Martyrs, why does this not register? The Jews are PROTECTED by God for 1260 dats in the Petra/Bozrah area.

God says that the 70th week is about Daniels people. I believe Him and have posted the scriptural support proving such. I'm not sure why you want to keep dragging the Church into this final 7 years as we can already see them in heaven in Revelation 4 and 5 before any seals are opened. There is a difference between Israel, the woman, and her seed the 12 tribes across the earth that are not in Israel.

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

ADD THIS UP.........The Remnant in Rev. 12:17 can ONLY be the Remnant Church, nothing else fits. So, Satan can not get at the Woman (1/3 Jews who repent) so he gets angry and goes after the Remnant who come from the SEED (Jesus) who gave the TESTIMONY of Jesus !! Now, the 2/3 Jews who do not Repent do not have the TESTIMONY of Jesus do they? And Zech. 13:8-9 has already said they will die. The 1/3 are PROTECTED sop much so that Satan get angry and goes to get the Remnant of the SEED which is Jesus. This can ONLY be the Remnant Gentile Church !!

The remnant can't possibly be the Church. The Church is already in heaven when the dragon goes after the womans seed.

The remnant is the 1/3 remaining of the House of Israel. Again, there is nothing to figure out. The answer is already given.

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

I am good at figuring these things out because God has blessed me. Now, why would you not understand the Remnant Church will be the Martyrs? It can't be the Protected Jews !!

That's just it. There's nothing to figure out. The answer is already given. Who is considered a Jew? If a Jewish man marries a Gentile woman and has a child is the child considered a Jew? No. If a Gentile man marries a Jewish woman is the child considered a Jew? Yes. It is the seed of the woman that determines if a child is a Jew or not. The seed of the woman that the dragon goes after are all the Jews around the world that are not in Israel. They are not in the place of protection.

So the seed of the woman, Israel, is not the protected Jews, you got that right. But it is not the remnant Church either. It's the Jews all over the world.

There is nothing to figure out. The answer is already given.

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, they just accept their Messiah Jesus. And the Harvest of Gentiles is not over, the Martyrs can only be the Gentiles who repent during the 70th week but are not protected by God, because the 5 (virgins) tarried they failed to make the wedding, thus there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

God is not interested in people that want to love Him when they find the door to the wedding shut and trouble has come. He is interested in those that are watching and ready as instructed. Do you think weeping and gnashing of teeth means they are going to be a remnant Church? You might check the following verses.

Matthew 8:12

But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:13

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 24:51

And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

NO..........He is only allowed to rule 1260 days or 42 Months try reading Rev. 13. And 1260 days is HALF of 7 Years. This isn't hard brother, you go down wrong paths, that why its hard to reconnect with the correct paths later on.

I said the rider on the white horse is "AN" Antichrist and the 7th king. There will yet come the man of sin who is "THE" Antichrist and the 8th king. It is the 8th king that rules for 1260 days, not the 7th king. You say read Revelation 13. Do you not understand that there is a beast of the sea and a beast of the earth? The beast of the earth is the 7th king who makes world worship the beast of the sea, the 8th king.

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Church is raptured, then 3.5 years after the AGREEMENT or Israel joins the E.U. we get God's Wrath.

There is no scripture that supports this. The scripture shows the Church raptured and in heaven in Revelation 4 and 5 and THEN the seals are opened. This will occur at the confirming of the covenant for 7 years.

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

There are no 12 scattered tribes, that is a figment of your imagination and came from the cultist Herbert G. Armstrong. All 12 Tribes currently live in Israel, unless God lied, He stated in Ezekiel 37 that He brought the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel back into the land. (I want to see you try to spin that).

There is no need to put a spin on anything. And again, there is nothing to figure out. The answer is already given. All those that return to the nation of Israel are the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel. They are the woman of Revelation 12. The seed of the woman is another matter. There are Jews all over the world that are not Israel. As for Armstrong, I have no idea what he says, and am not interested in such. All you have to do is read the Word of God. Quit figuring things out that don't need to be figured out and getting off the correct path. The answers are already given.

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by The Light

[The Light]

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 19 covers 7 years, you have to say tat because it destroys you understanding of a linear Book of Revelation.

I say the wrath lasts one year, because the wrath of God lasts one year. The day of the Lord lasts 1000 years. The day of wrath lasts one year.

And I don't read Revelation linear. I read it 1 thru 11 as linear except for the sealing of the 144,000. You know what 12 is. The 13 and 14 occur in the seals and 15 and 16 occur in wrath just like the trumpets occur in wrath.

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

We see the Church in heaven BEFORE they (we) get our White Robes !! In Rev. 4, 5, and even 7 we already have on our White Robes !!

7 is the great multitude which includes more than just the Church.

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 6 is simply Jesus prophesying, makes no difference what anyone "THINKS" tbh, facts are facts.

Revelation 6 is the events Jesus told us about in Matthew 24 including His coming when He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth prior to the 1 year wrath of God.

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Sorrows BIRTH the 70th week, this is very, very bad Eschatology. The 6th Seal is another Prophecy, Jesus comes at the 7th Vial, you are very confused my friend.

 

Confused? I'm not the one that has the Church going thru the wrath of God. We are not appointed to wrath.

1 Thessalonians 5:9

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The gathering from heaven and earth when Jesus sends His angels to gather the elect happens BEFORE the wrath of God as Paul clearly states.

2 Thes 2

 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

I think you have been listening to too many people and not accepting what is written.

The tribulation if OVER before the wrath of God begins.

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 8, 9 and 16 cover the 42 months of God's Wrath in full. Eschatology is not your bag my friend.

There are not 42 months of wrath. The day of His wrath lasts 1 year.

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We will leave our dead bodies on this earth, they are dead because our Spirits go to be with the Lord, bodies with no spirit = DEAD.

Our bodies are changed. We don't have to figure anything out, the answer is already given.

1 Cor 15

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[AdHoc]

On 12/21/2022 at 7:06 AM, Revelation Man said:

Correct, but the CHANGING is evident if we just use logic, when do we get our White Robes? In Heaven at the Marriage to the Lamb. The White Robes are our glorious bodies. We will leave our bodies and in nano seconds be in Heaven brother. 

The reason I see this as important is, we see many Christians (wrongly IMHO out of lack of knowledge) saying that the people on earth will think we were all abducted by aliens etc. Well, not if 1 billion bodies are on earth. Now they have a strategy of propaganda incoming, they will say "those people didn't take the COVID 19 shot", or "they caught some crazy virus", lets lock down the world again. My point is the whole angle of deception will not be an alien abduction, but some type of virus, so COVID 19 therefore was Satan's testing ground. Satan is brilliant, he understands the bible. 

There will be no missing humans, our spirit just leave our bodies. 

Think about it, God bless.

Instead of a point by point debate, let me give my view.

In Genesis 1:26-28 God set forth His plan with man. Man was to be in the image and likeness of God, subdue the earth and then rule it. Despite man's rebellion, disobedience and fate under sin, God never gives up His plan. But the road back to His stated plan is long - for man. He must be relieved of the just rewards for his actions, he must be reconciled with God, he must have access to the Tree of Life so that he may partake of God's life, his corrupted way of thinking must be transformed to be like Christ's way. His body, which is corrupted and headed for death, must be changed to a body like Christ's. And finally, he must be made co-king with Jesus - that is, he must inherit the earth and rulership over it.

I won't go into the process except that of the body - for that is what we discuss. In Genesis 1:11-12 God made a Law. Everything that has seed within itself will produce another one of its KIND. No matter what medicine a man takes, when he reproduces he just makes another of sinful Adam's KIND (Rom.5:12-17). But God has a plan. He bars Adam from the Tree of Life and let Adam and all his seed after him, die. And as soon as death sets in the body starts to rot back to the elements. God, in 1st Corinthians 15 likens human death to being planted like a seed.

At a certain time, appointed by God, He will allow that which has been planted in death to come forth like a plant (1st Cor.15:35-44). A seed needs nothing to come forth as a tree bearing fruit except food (water and nutrients). The first creation of men came forth from a WOMB and the transmission of his KIND was by the blood - for the blood has the life of a man in it (Gen.9:5). Acts 17:26 says; "And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth".

But when he raises men from the ground, God does not use the WOMB. The Holy Spirit makes up the new body from the same elements as the old body, but does not use the blood and/or the womb. It is constructed by Christ (1st Cor.15:45). But then we must ask; What about those Christians who did NOT DIE? How can they end the old and get the new? They are not "planted". How can they sprout forth in newness? The answer is that Christ will CHANGE them as they stand on their feet, or sleep in their beds. This change takes place in the "twinkling of an eye". The Greek word has the connotation of you standing by a target and a javelin hits the target. One instant it is not there and then next the whole javelin is there. the whole picture, or situation has dramatically changed.

Because Christ's Kingdom is heavenly, that is, it is built by a birth from above (Lit. Gk. Jn.3:3), via a Heavenly Calling (Heb.3:1) to bring and administer heavenly rules ON EARTH, our corrupted earthly bodies are just not good enough. We get a Savior from heaven, who adminsters abirth "from above", works during our lifetime to becaome heavenly in our disposition, then get a heavenly Body (2nd Cor.5:1-5), and then we enter a Kingdom not "in", but "OF" heaven, to bring heavenly rules to earth.

It is the SAME Body - but CHANGED. Notice the grammar of 1st Corinthians 15:36–37; "Thou fool, THAT which thou sowest is not quickened, except IT die: 37 And THAT which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain"

THAT which you sow, it is THAT that comes out of the ground - only CHANGED.

As to the mechanism of the rapture and how men disappear without being noticed, why ... is anything too difficult for God? How many times in the Old Testament did god blind a whole army? And the number of Christians in the world are probably less than 1%. If you were at a barbecue with 100 men and one went to the toilet, would he be missed?