Did God restore Israel in 1948?

[dad2]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

The house of Israel.  The scattered sheep. 


House of Judah were NOT the scattered sheep.  They were to bring forth 'the Messiah'.  They were right there, in Jerusalem, working in the Temple.  

Did I say anything about scattered sheep? I guess you have no clear point. Fine

[dad2]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Have you read the Old Testament?





 

So you did not offer even one verse of end time prophesy using that term. Fine.

[Selah7]

13 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Here’s my understanding.

Israel will be restored when Jesus Christ returns (the Day of the Lord), at which time, the millennium begins:

Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy People and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

In the verse above, there will be six things that will occur before the transgression is completed upon Jerusalem. Then Jesus will return to set up His millennial kingdom on earth, and the transgressions will be no more.  This will be that glorious time when our Lord Jesus Christ is anointed in the most holy place—in Jerusalem.  It’s evident that each of the things listed above still exist and will continue to exist until the end of the tribulation period when at the 7th trump, the King of kings returns! 

Daniel 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again and the wall, even in troublous times."

 

 

@DeighAnn    Hi, sis.  I’ve been reading your recent posts.  Here’s my two cents worth, but I’m still trying to understand, too.

We can see that "thy people" refers to Israel, Daniel's people, who are the only ones mentioned in this prophesy, in verse 24. The location is then established: Jerusalem, "thy holy city" (verses: Daniel 9:2, Daniel 9:7, Daniel 9:16).  

All this is future, by the way.  It won’t happen until Jesus returns.

[Keras]

23 hours ago, dad2 said:

I do not agree that Israel is not Israel, the Jewish people.

You are wrong for two reasons; The Jews are only 2/12ths of all Israel , and it is far from sufficient for accept the claims of anyone, without proper proof. 

For example, the groups from India and Africa, who claim to be Jewish, with their only support being some Jewish rites, are obviously just doing whatever they can to get out of their 'basket case' countries. 

There is also, the mathematical proof that everyone alive on earth today, have some of Abrahams genes. As Paul plainly tells us in Romans 2:29, the only true Jew, is one who has the belief in God, accepts Jesus and is truly faithful.

[Keras]

Judah and Israel

The Old Testament prophets always carefully delineate between the House of Judah, the tribes of Judah and Benjamin and the House of Israel, the ten Northern tribes*.

They separated into these two nations, soon after Solomon’s reign ended. God said that this separation was part of His plan. 1 Kings 12:24

Although some from the Northern tribes did escape the Assyrian exile by coming down and joining with Judah, the main body of Israel were taken away to the Caucasus region. When the Assyrian Kingdom declined and fell, they decided to migrate and find better lands to live in. There is plenty of archaeological evidence of their travels; Jeremiah 31:21 speaks of the cairns or dolmens that they built to mark their way across Europe, many of which still exist.

Their descendants remain scattered around the world, now an uncountable number of peoples that have received the blessings promised to them by Jacob, Genesis 49 and by Moses; Deuteronomy 33. In particular, Ephraim, who became the leading tribe of the House of Israel, received the blessing of Jacob, Genesis 48:17-19, of his descendants becoming a group of nations, powerful and prosperous.  Only the British Commonwealth fits this description. The United States of America represent Ephraim’s brother; Manasseh.

 

That Israel and Judah have not rejoined as yet, is proven by the great chapter of Ezekiel 37:

Firstly, the dry bones represent the whole Israelite people; verse 11  The Lord will put His Spirit into them and they will come alive spiritually, becoming Christians, later: those faithful will be settled into all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 20:32-38, Ezekiel 37:12-14, Ezekiel 34:11-31 and Isaiah 11:11-13 –the Second Exodus.

The two sticks, that clearly show how the two Houses are both Israelite, are rejoined as one in God’s hand, to become one nation in the Land; ALL of the holy Land, from the Nile to the Euphrates. This will be the new nation of Beulah, as Isaiah 62:1-5 prophesies.

God promises to make a Covenant with them; of peace and prosperity and His Sanctuary [Temple] will be in the midst of them.  He says: then they will know that I am their God.   This statement is in many of Ezekiel’s prophesies and is proof that they will all take place before Jesus visibly Returns for His Millennial reign.

This Covenant is the one prophesied by Jeremiah 31:31-34 and reiterated in Hebrews 8:10-11 and we await, with great anticipation the time of its implementation.

* Unfortunately, Paul in the New Testament is not so careful with ‘Israel’ and it requires discernment to be sure of when he is meaning Judah, the Jews or all Israel, by descent or by grafting in.

 

[Revelation Man]

On 12/29/2022 at 3:33 PM, ayin jade said:

Then why are you making an issue of it if its nothing to God? Since every day is good for worshipping the Lord, why does it matter if someone goes on saturday versus sunday? I have gone wednesday nights, friday and sunday nights, saturday and sunday. As long as He is worshipped, it does not matter which day. But you seem to believe that no one should go to church on saturday. 

Baptists say they are baptists. They do not say Im a Christian who happens to go to a baptist church. Yet that is ok in your eyes whereas I cant say Im a Messianic without you taking offense.

Do you accept that Messianics are brothers and sisters in Christ to you?

They are not really antisemitic at heart, they are PRO their ideas and anything that gets in the ways is pilloried, just like the anti pre trib guys attack incessantly against us pre trib people (not all but many, many do). 

You see, they have to JUSTIFY their stances always. And they think Israel and the Church are ONE (Brothers but one). So, when they get reproved, the attack the points, which make them appear to be anti Israel, but in their minds they say, HEY, we are saying we are one family, but what they do not understand in being wrong, they are denying Israel the prophesies of God and saying Israel basically has become the Church, which of course is nonsensical. 

They have zeal but lack knowledge sister. They do not understand the coming Kingdom Age, They should be, being taught, but instead they want to teach. Just pray that their eyes will be opened to what God is really doing. I used to think these types were antisemitic (a few are) but most are just confused tbh.

God Bless

Edited January 2, 2023 by Revelation Man

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, Selah7 said:

@DeighAnn    Hi, sis.  I’ve been reading your recent posts.  Here’s my two cents worth, but I’m still trying to understand, too.

We can see that "thy people" refers to Israel, Daniel's people, who are the only ones mentioned in this prophesy, in verse 24. The location is then established: Jerusalem, "thy holy city" (verses: Daniel 9:2, Daniel 9:7, Daniel 9:16).  

All this is future, by the way.  It won’t happen until Jesus returns.

Hello sister Selah, going to cover what you already know but hope it will bring perspective on the 'ISRAEL' thing

the pre trib rapt church has defined as something else so it can separate itself from tribulation, as I see it anyhow. 

Gods choose a specific bloodline through which He would show Himself, show His Righteousness, and His plan, to let us know what is really going on in this world today, just as it did for them in their day.

Every soul has to opportunity to receive the GIFT of eternal life - to go on living with God in the next world age, His Kingdom come, and to choose how much to INVEST in that future. The requirements are to 'read the book' to come to faith, go to work, the 'profits' coming not just now but also being put away in a 'savings account in Heaven for the future age'. 

It was through that bloodline the Old Testament would be given, be written, so everyone who followed after would be able to know exactly 'what was what' 

A sorta kinda overview

He took that bloodline and made them 'slaves' for 400 years or so, so that they had no idea how to do anything.  Then He removed them (parted the sea) to eventually bring forth a perfect government, right and just, accomplished through HIS LAWS.  He finally allowed them into the promised land and showed THE WORLD what 'doing it His way', looked like.  And the world did see the 'outward' blessings. 


Problem though, the 'physical' part was NOT working out so well, the 'inner man' not being 'transformed' by following the laws as was meant.

Anyways, under Solomon, the people started to sin...

So God divided them into two groups,

The first group, The House of Israel, northern, was 10 of the tribes plus Ephriam and Manasseh, who had received 'the BIRTHRIGHT'. They would continue to disobey and became the first go into captivity but also the first to be released and upon release, sent out to 'populate' the world, sifted amongst the peoples (gentiles/heathen/nations) going on to produce a nation of many nations, and a great nation, and to inhabit the isles and coasts, in which He could still bring blessings upon the world through them (through THE WORD). They would be called the 'scattered sheep', forgetting who they once were'.  

We can't ignore anything given to Abraham Isaac and Joseph like it 'ceased' to exist. It hasn't.  

SO hundreds of years BEFORE JESUS even was born, being released and scattered, they couldn't even go to Jerusalem if they had wanted and/or any the southern part because by that time, the House of Judah had also gone into captivity.

SO, NO MORE NATION OF ISRAEL. 

Just because they were no longer a 'nation' doesn't mean the promises, covenants etc. stopped, yet 'the gentile pre trib rap church' neither teaches nor acknowledges them as 'any part' of THEIR history nor any bearing on what is taking place today and will in the future.  WE DO ERR in not knowing the Scritpures.  


Meanwhile, the House of Judah is released to go back to Jerusalem to build the Temple and to bring forth the Messiah.  WHICH THEY DO.  

A JEW, according to the BIBLE, is one who is of the tribe of Judah, the House of Judah (Judah, Benjamin and some Levi), or an inhabitant of Judea and/or Jerusalem. Since we are talking BIBLE what the 'world' says or does doesn't matter here.

CHRISTIANS, who do not go to the schoolmaster, are kinda like Esau in that they don't care about their true heritage.  They know Paul taught all those 'coming to Christ' through the Law and the Prophets with the teaching of Christ crucified, but somehow THESE TRUTHS have been made of no effect.

WHO IS THE CHURCH if NOT the scattered sheep of the House of Israel, with 'others' grafted in AMONGST THEM AS

Christians are GODS PEOPLE, come in faith.

Christians are the 'sheep who hear His voice'

Christians are 'gentiles grafted in amongst His sheep'  EITHER the NATURAL BRANCHES NOT CUT OFF or the wild branches grafted in

 ONE TREE. ONE destiny.  

Christians are ABRAHAMS SEED and just like THEM, 'heirs to the promise'.  jUST because the PROMISE IS CHRIST doesn't mean ANOTHER TREE. 

 

20But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:

25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.


SHALL WE LEAVE BEHIND 'the more feeble' those who didn't come to the truth soon enough?  NO, we are made one, like the Father and Son are one. 

Daniel 9 deals with both, the Jeremiah prophecy of 70 years (that were almost over), and the vision of the 70 weeks that were going to begin. 

But HERE is a verse that tells us that ISRAEL IS IN ALL COUNTRIES

7O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee. 

so even back THEN ISRAEL was going all over the world and it was GOD driving them. 

GOD SENDING GODS PEOPLE OUT TO POPULATE THE WORLD 


BEFORE the NEW TESTAMENT was even SENT OUT to the world.  But when the 'good news' was sent out to the world, the sheep hear His voice and THE CHURCH grows bigger and bigger opened to 'whomsoever' would


SO DANIELS PEOPLE AREN'T JUST THOSE in the Land, or of the nation or kingdom but

ISRAEL is Gods People doing Gods work all over the world

and THAT is what the gentiles are grafted in amongst, called the body of Christ/the church

making the SO CALLED 'gentile church' is just another part of the 'pre trib theory' making void the words of God.  


So the CHURCH is of Israel.  And when the gospel has been preached to ALL THE WORLD then the time of spreading the good news and the offer of SALVATION ends and the blindness of the 'part' is removed, and the natural branches are grafted back in and the 2 sticks are made one and the day of vengeance begins. 

AND THE REASON no one can find any scripture pertaining to a pre trib rapt gentile church.  Not for what would be a 3rd Advent, NOR a 2nd 'alive and remaining' being changed, NOR God becoming a respecter of a PART of the last generation, NOR an enduring to the 'gentile church age end', NOR a not standing and overcoming, NOR not carrying our cross, NOR not suffering with Him yet being worthy, NOR a secret rapture, NOR a dividing of the church, nor the hundreds of other things written that are rendered null and void. 


So, GOD DID RESTORE ISRAEL in 1948 and we know HE DID because once again the Nation of Israel was placed on the map of the world.  


AS for (verses: Daniel 9:2, Daniel 9:7, Daniel 9:16) I believe they are of Jeremiah and are past.  

16O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.



Just as 

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


all that is past 




BUT ALL THIS IS FUTURE as none of this has ever taken place 

There has never been a covenant 'for a week' with anyone

never has the whole world been deceived and all the prayers and supplications gone to an Adversary,

neither has there been a consummation of the overspreading of abominations

and GOD HAS NEVER POURED OUT THE VIALS of wrath upon those destroying 

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I am going to stop here in an effort to keep this short.  Agreement or disagreement?  

[dad2]

1 hour ago, Keras said:

You are wrong for two reasons; The Jews are only 2/12ths of all Israel , and it is far from sufficient for accept the claims of anyone, without proper proof. 

For example, the groups from India and Africa, who claim to be Jewish, with their only support being some Jewish rites, are obviously just doing whatever they can to get out of their 'basket case' countries. 

There is also, the mathematical proof that everyone alive on earth today, have some of Abrahams genes. As Paul plainly tells us in Romans 2:29, the only true Jew, is one who has the belief in God, accepts Jesus and is truly faithful.

The bible did not mention genetic traces. It was speaking about Israel in the end being invaded and etc. Did you think that meant that someone was going to invade the DNA? When it talks of Israel finally getting saved, it is clear that this means the Jewish people. The issue is not racial purity. I think Jews were even allowed to convert people and etc. I provided a link yesterday that showed the vast majority of people in Israel are Jews.

 

 Jerusalem is also in prophesy. You can't wave it away.

[dad2]

36 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

A JEW, according to the BIBLE, is one who is of the tribe of Judah, the House of Judah (Judah, Benjamin and some Levi), or an inhabitant of Judea and/or Jerusalem. Since we are talking BIBLE what the 'world' says or does doesn't matter here.

 

End time prophesy is about Jerusalem and Israel, and how they will be saved in the end etc. Getting hung up on the word Jew is a strawman. Why do you think Jewish people want to return to Israel? Not just one tribe.

[dad2]

2 hours ago, Keras said:

Judah and Israel

...

They separated into these two nations, soon after Solomon’s reign ended. God said that this separation was part of His plan. 1 Kings 12:24

Bible prophesy however does no such thing usually.