Daniel 9:24-27: When?

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Interesting. I had forgotten about this. Makes me think the daily sacrifice being taken away is a critical component of this coming moment. The daily sacrifice being taken away is mentioned several times in Daniel and Joel. 

In Joel the context pertains to starvation and drought. Now in Daniel, that is ch. 8, it is pointing to Antiochus during the Maccabees period. The end of the road for him is eluded to in ch. 12.

So the question comes down to Dan 9:27- And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I say, the consummation is when Jesus returns. 

[Diaste]

58 minutes ago, Uriah said:

In Joel the context pertains to starvation and drought. Now in Daniel, that is ch. 8, it is pointing to Antiochus during the Maccabees period. The end of the road for him is eluded to in ch. 12.

So the question comes down to Dan 9:27- And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I say, the consummation is when Jesus returns. 

Sure. I just meant in the identification of the information about the A of D, information which Jesus told us to look for.

I don't know if it's worth it or not to get into which A of D is which throughout Daniel.

Jesus said an A of D is coming and that  Daniel holds the information and the key to understanding just what the A of D is, not necessarily when.

imo.

 

[Selah7]

32 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Sure. I just meant in the identification of the information about the A of D, information which Jesus told us to look for.

I don't know if it's worth it or not to get into which A of D is which throughout Daniel.

Jesus said an A of D is coming and that  Daniel holds the information and the key to understanding just what the A of D is, not necessarily when.

imo.

 

The A of D (the abomination of desolation) is Satan.  The AOD is not a “what”; it’s a “who”.  

My battery is about dead.  I’ll be back later and post scriptures.  

 

 

 

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, Selah7 said:

The A of D (the abomination of desolation) is Satan.  The AOD is not a “what”; it’s a “who”.  

Yes. And no. It's not really one thing. It's the stopping of the sacrifices, the spoken blasphemy, the beast making himself god and an idol. This what the Jewish Encyclopedia has to say:

"The context of these passages leaves no room for doubt as to what was intended by this somewhat odd expression; namely, the transformation, by Antiochus Epiphanes, of the sacred Temple at Jerusalem into a heathen one. In both Biblical and rabbinical Hebrew abomination is a familiar term for an idol (I Kings, xi. 5; II Kings, xxiii. 13; Sifra, Ḳedoshim, beginning, and Mekilta, Mishpatim, xx. ed. Weiss, 107), and therefore may well have the same application in Daniel, which should accordingly be rendered, in agreement with Ezra, ix. 3, 4, "motionless abomination" or, also, "appalling abomination." "

https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/353-abomination-of-desolation

2 hours ago, Selah7 said:

My battery is about dead.  I’ll be back later and post scriptures.  

[Selah7]

3 hours ago, Selah7 said:

The A of D (the abomination of desolation) is Satan.  The AOD is not a “what”; it’s a “who”.  

My battery is about dead.  I’ll be back later and post scriptures.  

 

 

 

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

- Matthew 24:15 (KJV)

Now I’ll add my understanding.  This reference to Daniel the prophet, if you think about it, makes the book of Daniel part of the New Testament. This reference in Matthew is directed to Daniel 9:27.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

- Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

So what is the "abomination"?  The abomination is when Satan sets himself up in Jerusalem and declares that he is God—and the world believes it!  The "desolation" is actually an incorrect translation into the English language.  It should read "desolator.”  Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ.  The word "desolation" is a condition, the action of desolating.  In the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator." This is not a condition.  The desolator is an entity, a person. It is through this individual (Satan) that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator (Satan) that shall cause everyone, except for the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived. 

What is the Holy place?  It is the place that the temple sits.  Not only that, it is these buildings of the temple that the disciples of Jesus were questioning Jesus about—when they asked Him what it would be like at His second advent.  This is where the desolation (the desolator, Satan, the Antichrist) will stop the sacrifices, speak blasphemies, stating he is God.

Will the world be deceived?  Yes—except for the Elect—for the AC will have supernatural powers, and he will use them to draw the peoples of the world to come to peace (remember, the Antichrist comes in peaceably). 

 

[Uriah]

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't know if it's worth it or not to get into which A of D is which throughout Daniel.

Yeah, I know. But one other thing would be significant. 

Dan 9:27- "wing of the temple" (a border/outskirt etc.) vs "in the Holy place". Hint, see the image I posted.

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

Yeah, I know. But one other thing would be significant. 

Dan 9:27- "wing of the temple" (a border/outskirt etc.) vs "in the Holy place". Hint, see the image I posted.

So idk for sure, but this part always seemed to me to wax poetic.

NKJ

"And on the wing of abominations..."

KJ

"for the overspreading of abominations "

NIV [Don't really see this]

"he will set up an abomination"

There are other examples but it feels it's written like, 'swooping in with abominations'. Or maybe, 'carried by abominations'. 

The word for wing is defined as an extremity or a covering and it's used quite often for birds wings or a poetic use such as 'under the shadow of His wings'. I never see it used for a building wing, ell, addition, etc.

I could be wrong.

[Diaste]

20 hours ago, Selah7 said:

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

- Matthew 24:15 (KJV)

Now I’ll add my understanding.  This reference to Daniel the prophet, if you think about it, makes the book of Daniel part of the New Testament. This reference in Matthew is directed to Daniel 9:27.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

- Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

So what is the "abomination"?  The abomination is when Satan sets himself up in Jerusalem and declares that he is God—and the world believes it!  

But it's not a single abomination; it's abominations.

The way the word is used in the OT, more often than not, it refers to idols and/or behavior and not a person.

In my opinion HE swoops in on wings OF abominations and makes desolate.

20 hours ago, Selah7 said:

 

The "desolation" is actually an incorrect translation into the English language.  It should read "desolator.”  Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ.  The word "desolation" is a condition, the action of desolating.  In the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator."

This is not a condition.  The desolator is an entity, a person. It is through this individual (Satan) that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator (Satan) that shall cause everyone, except for the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived. 

This is what I see on Bible Hub:

So sure, he makes desolate. But it's not Satan, it's the beast. The beast is empowered by Satan and, 

they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

5And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [c]continue for forty-two months. 6Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

"and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

That isn't Satan.

 

 

20 hours ago, Selah7 said:

What is the Holy place?  It is the place that the temple sits.  

Classically the holy place is right before the holy of holies, inside the Temple.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-gLsEdkE74Sg%2FU399Q5epJwI%2FAAAAAAAAAXA%2F8uJPPru2l44%2Fs1600%2FJerusalem%2BTemple%2BDesign.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=a621a66e60398cd8e0f2034ae9967ad042b0ba7ba498b2d6475bdd28735bbf8f&ipo=images

 

20 hours ago, Selah7 said:

 

Not only that, it is these buildings of the temple that the disciples of Jesus were questioning Jesus about—when they asked Him what it would be like at His second advent.  This is where the desolation (the desolator, Satan, the Antichrist) will stop the sacrifices, speak blasphemies, stating he is God.

Will the world be deceived?  Yes—except for the Elect—for the AC will have supernatural powers, and he will use them to draw the peoples of the world to come to peace (remember, the Antichrist comes in peaceably). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

On 3/4/2023 at 4:21 AM, Diaste said:

It's not so much the exact word string doesn't appear[it kinda does], it's the idea that's critical.

If the act by AE IV is the A of D from Dan 11:31, and it is, and it is said of this, "They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation.", and this fulfillment came by AE IV between 169-167 BC, as it's the nearest fulfillment, then Dan 9 does speak to the abomination of desolation.

Dan 9; "but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation,

You are jumping around like a shell game. The last (underlined) phrase you quote comes from the LXX, which has been injected right in the middle of the Hebrew text's translation! And not accurately translated from the Greek to boot! This is clear evidence that the translator has approached the passage with a bias.

This is why I am always stressing that "the Hebrew does not say that!" And why I referenced the scholarly article that shows the reliability of the Hebrew text of Daniel, and the unreliability of the LXX texts.

[WilliamL]

On 3/3/2023 at 8:19 PM, Uriah said:

And as for "At that time" in Dan 12:1, it is a transliteration that could just as easily  (as it is elsewhere) used to say it differently. It consists of one word, (ʿēṯ ) used twice in succession.

In my opinion it looks the way it does for expediency, because it is glaringly a sentence that has no preposition nor prepositional phrase as the ones that commonly say, "at that time"

Completely false on all counts. There are two different words, the first containing a preposition (the letter beyth), meaning in or at. The words are literally translated as "in/at the time the that" = "in/at that time."