Chosen to Salvation

[FreeGrace]

17 minutes ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

Ż

Can a person believe in some sense but not be saved?

Always, the key is what "in some sense" means to the speaker.

But fortunately, the Bible is very clear on what "believe" means in order to be eternally saved.  The word "believe" and "trust" are synonymous.  If you believe what someone says, then you trust what they say.  

So, to believe savingly in Christ, the person MUST believe or trust WHO Jesus is;  the very Son of God; meaning Jesus was fully Deity as well as fully human.

Then, the person MUST believe or trust that Jesus went to the cross for THEM personally and paid their sin debt in full, which qualifies Him to give the free gift of eternal life to the believer.

So, saving faith must have an object.  The object is the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

Saving faith must also have a purpose.  The purpose of faith or trust in Jesus Christ is to be saved/delivered/rescued from the LOF.

John 3:16, 5:24, 6:47, 10:28 

 

We must contrast "lifestyle faith" with "saving faith".  They are not the same.  Lifestyle faith involves one's daily life and behavior.  The Exodus generation failed repeatedly in lifestyle faith, by not trusting God to provide for them, inspite of the fact that He continually did provide for them.

If lifestyle faith was saving, then one's behavior (works/deeds) would be the basis for salvation.  That is false.

Edited January 14, 2023 by FreeGrace

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

John 3:6 Parallel Verses [⇓ See commentary ⇓]

John 3:6, NIV: Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

John 3:6, ESV: That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:6, KJV: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:6, NASB: That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which has been born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:6, NLT: Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life.

John 3:6, CSB: Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.

What does John 3:6 mean? [⇑

Seems the verse is clear enough.  The NLT nails it.  Jesus was contrasting our physical birth and our spiritual birth.

[enoob57]

16 hours ago, David1701 said:

Please let us all know what you think this means: "Of His own will He begot us with the word of truth.".

...and this...

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
  5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance...

Quote

Please let us all know what you think this means: "Of His own will He begot us with the word of truth.".

This is the elective predestined will of God that through His Word all else will be established.

John 17:8-23 (KJV)

[8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

[9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

[10] And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

[12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

[13] And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

[14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

[23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Quote

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
  5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance...

The election of God begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation as the written Word from The Holy Spirit is the foundational aspect where all else is built upon...

As Israel God's elect...
Isaiah 45:4 (KJV)
[4] For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Romans 3:1=2 (KJV)
[1] What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
[2] Much every way: >chiefly,< because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

why Elect(?)
Acts 7:38 (KJV)
[38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

It was The Father through The Son that spoke, (The Word), of creation into existence and all men born into it knows God 'IS' by said creation:
Romans 1:20 (KJV)
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

All men from the beginning to the end have this witness and are without excuse according to the Election of God through His Creative Word... further:
It was Father's intent that His Son would come in flesh and live the perfection that resides in God alone:
1 John 4:9 (KJV)
[9] In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

This The Same Word Who The Father created through- now has come into flesh Jn 1. To provide The Gospel of His Salvation...

God has provided a personal detailed instruction set by the Power of the Holy Spirit called the Scripture/Oracles of God to all of mankind:
2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

God who is no respect of persons has provided His provision/elective purposes for the world through His Creative Word, His Written Word, His Living Word the offer of salvation to all of mankind so perfectly stated here:
John 3:16 (KJV)
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[David1701]

54 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

This is the elective predestined will of God that through His Word all else will be established.

John 17:8-23 (KJV)

[8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

[9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

[10] And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

[12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

[13] And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

[14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

[23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The election of God begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation as the written Word from The Holy Spirit is the foundational aspect where all else is built upon...

As Israel God's elect...
Isaiah 45:4 (KJV)
[4] For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Romans 3:1=2 (KJV)
[1] What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
[2] Much every way: >chiefly,< because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

why Elect(?)
Acts 7:38 (KJV)
[38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

 

 

It was The Father through The Son that spoke, (The Word), of creation into existence and all men born into it knows God 'IS' by said creation:
Romans 1:20 (KJV)
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

All men from the beginning to the end have this witness and are without excuse according to the Election of God through His Creative Word... further:
It was Father's intent that His Son would come in flesh and live the perfection that resides in God alone:
1 John 4:9 (KJV)
[9] In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

 

This The Same Word Who The Father created through- now has come into flesh Jn 1. To provide The Gospel of His Salvation...

God has provided a personal detailed instruction set by the Power of the Holy Spirit called the Scripture/Oracles of God to all of mankind:
2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

God who is no respect of persons has provided His provision/elective purposes for the world through His Creative Word, His Written Word, His Living Word the offer of salvation to all of mankind so perfectly stated here:
John 3:16 (KJV)
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

 

 

 

1) Salvation is not some mere "provision", contingent upon the sinful will of fallen man!  Salvation has been accomplished! 

2) The Lord Jesus came to save his people from their sins, and that is exactly what he did.

3) Jesus did not come to provide some kind of "potential" redemption: he redeemed his people from the slave market of sin.

4) Jesus did not come to provide some "potential" propitiation of the Father, contingent upon sinful man's choice: he propitiated the Father, for all those for whom he died (his chosen ones).

5) Yes, only those who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved, because that is the means through which God has chosen to save his chosen people.

6) As the Bible states, repentance and faith are gifts from God, so they are not the product of sinful man's choice.

Provisionism is a counterfeit "gospel" and those who teach it undermine the accomplishment of the Lord on the cross.  It's blasphemous.

[David1701]

21 minutes ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

I have never taken that new life in Christ for granted, I thank him daily for the Lord Jesus Precious Holy Spirit!!..🙏💗

He gave us “birth”by His  “living” word of truth....In Jesus Name!!...Hallelujah!

 

James 1:18 Parallel Verses [⇓ See commentary ⇓]

James 1:18, NIV: He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

James 1:18, ESV: Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

James 1:18, KJV: Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

James 1:18, NASB: In the exercise of His will He gave us birth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.

James 1:18, NLT: He chose to give birth to us by giving us his true word. And we, out of all creation, became his prized possession.

James 1:18, CSB: By his own choice, he gave us birth by the word of truth so that we would be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
 

 

What does James 1:18 mean? [⇑ See verse text ⇑]

In the previous verses, James urged Christians to tell themselves the truth about who God is. He cares for them, even when—especially when—the trials come. God is the giver of every good thing in our lives. He is the unchanging source of any good we have ever had, have now, or will ever experience in the future. 

Now James completes that thought with an example of one of God's greatest good gifts to us. God gave us new life in Christ. That's an essential truth, but also something easy to take for granted. It's a necessary thought to hold on to in the middle of trials. Specifically, God brought us forth—or gave us birth—by His own will. He wanted to! God has cared about us from the beginning. 

James writes that God gave us birth by the Word of truth. Maybe James uses the "Word of truth" to refer to Christ as the means by which He saved us. He may also be referring to God's act of creation, bringing us to life as He brought the world to life with a word. In either case, we Christians are the "firstfruits" of His creation, likely meaning we have standing above all the rest of what He has made. 

What more evidence do we need that our God is good and loving and powerful and faithful to us? No matter how dark our circumstances in the moment, nothing can change the enormous good gift that God has given to us in Christ.

You had no way of knowing, but that quote about James 1:18 is a word in season to me!  It's just what I needed to hear, regarding an ongoing situation at work.  Thank you and praise the Lord!

Edited January 14, 2023 by David1701

[kwikphilly]

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

This is the elective predestined will of God that through His Word all else will be established.

John 17:8-23 (KJV)

[8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

[9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

[10] And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

[12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

[13] And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

[14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

[23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The election of God begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation as the written Word from The Holy Spirit is the foundational aspect where all else is built upon...

As Israel God's elect...
Isaiah 45:4 (KJV)
[4] For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

 

Romans 3:1=2 (KJV)
[1] What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
[2] Much every way: >chiefly,< because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

why Elect(?)
Acts 7:38 (KJV)
[38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

 

 

It was The Father through The Son that spoke, (The Word), of creation into existence and all men born into it knows God 'IS' by said creation:
Romans 1:20 (KJV)
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

All men from the beginning to the end have this witness and are without excuse according to the Election of God through His Creative Word... further:
It was Father's intent that His Son would come in flesh and live the perfection that resides in God alone:
1 John 4:9 (KJV)
[9] In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

 

This The Same Word Who The Father created through- now has come into flesh Jn 1. To provide The Gospel of His Salvation...

God has provided a personal detailed instruction set by the Power of the Holy Spirit called the Scripture/Oracles of God to all of mankind:
2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

God who is no respect of persons has provided His provision/elective purposes for the world through His Creative Word, His Written Word, His Living Word the offer of salvation to all of mankind so perfectly stated here:
John 3:16 (KJV)
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

 

 

 

Now that's proper application in context-thank you- Who can Say it better than Almighty God? Glory to God Most High!

With love in Christ, Kwik

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

1) Salvation is not some mere "provision", contingent upon the sinful will of fallen man!  Salvation has been accomplished! 

2) The Lord Jesus came to save his people from their sins, and that is exactly what he did.

3) Jesus did not come to provide some kind of "potential" redemption: he redeemed his people from the slave market of sin.

4) Jesus did not come to provide some "potential" propitiation of the Father, contingent upon sinful man's choice: he propitiated the Father, for all those for whom he died (his chosen ones).

5) Yes, only those who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved, because that is the means through which God has chosen to save his chosen people.

6) As the Bible states, repentance and faith are gifts from God, so they are not the product of sinful man's choice.

Provisionism is a counterfeit "gospel" and those who teach it undermine the accomplishment of the Lord on the cross.  It's blasphemous.

This is a common error of Calvinist... Here is a quote on the matter by David Allen that is excellent:

Quote

Some Calvinists contend that unlimited atonement makes the atonement "potential" but not "actual" in that many for whom Jesus died never receive the benefits of the atonement (efficacy argument). 

At the heart of this argument is the belief in what is called the "efficacy of the atonement." Limitarians generally argue that somehow the atonement itself secures its own application for the elect. However, the atonement in and of itself does not secure its own application. Nowhere in Scripture is this taught. The application of the atonement by the Holy Spirit in regeneration serves as the efficacy for the atonement. The atonement is what legally grounds the salvation of any individual. The atonement itself 
does not make salvation "certain." God does that through the Holy Spirit at the point of regeneration when the benefits of the atonement (forgiveness of sins; salvation) are applied to the believer in Christ. 

Limitarians attempt to impale their opponents on the horns of a dilemma: 
    'either the atonement is actual, or it is only potential.' 
    But such an argument engages in equivocation and a false dilemma. The equivocation is the substitution of "atonement" for actual "salvation" when the atonement is applied. Atonement accomplished must be distinguished from atonement applied, as Scripture does. The atonement is an actual, completed event. There is nothing "potential" about it. However, "salvation" in the sense of atonement applied is potential for all for whom atonement has been accomplished, upon condition of faith. 

The limitarian errs by considering the atonement itself as a cause effected by God alone that brings about an effect (salvation for the elect) without any intervening condition. But this understanding of the atonement 
leaves out something important in the equation: 
    the reality of intervening conditions (biconditionals). For example, take the statement "Jesus actually saves all who believe." This is how Scripture puts things. Never in Scripture are we told that the atonement itself saves anyone. Scripture knows of no salvation apart from belief. 

Therefore, on the grounds of an accomplished atonement, Jesus is the potential Savior of all people. Salvation is not actualized until the mechanism of faith occurs. Before that point, salvation is, and in fact has to 
be, potential. According to Eph 2:3, even the unbelieving elect (thinking of election from a Calvinistic perspective) are under the wrath of God ("we were by nature children under wrath"). The atonement itself does not save anyone until faith is exercised.

Limitarians collapse the potentiality into actuality—a major error. Their logic proceeds in this fashion: 
    1. Jesus can only be the potential Savior of the ones for those sins he died. 
    2. Jesus did not die for the non-elect. 
    3. Therefore, there is no potential salvation for the non-elect.

 

[farouk]

3 hours ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

I have never taken that new life in Christ for granted, I thank him daily for the Lord Jesus Precious Holy Spirit!!..🙏💗

He gave us “birth”by His  “living” word of truth....In Jesus Name!!...Hallelujah!

 

James 1:18 Parallel Verses [⇓ See commentary ⇓]

James 1:18, NIV: He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

James 1:18, ESV: Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

James 1:18, KJV: Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

James 1:18, NASB: In the exercise of His will He gave us birth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.

James 1:18, NLT: He chose to give birth to us by giving us his true word. And we, out of all creation, became his prized possession.

James 1:18, CSB: By his own choice, he gave us birth by the word of truth so that we would be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
 

1 Peter 1:3 Parallel Verses [⇓ See commentary ⇓]

1 Peter 1:3, NIV: Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:3, ESV: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:3, KJV: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:3, NASB: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:3, NLT: All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation,

1 Peter 1:3, CSB: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

 

What does James 1:18 mean? [⇑ See verse text ⇑]

In the previous verses, James urged Christians to tell themselves the truth about who God is. He cares for them, even when—especially when—the trials come. God is the giver of every good thing in our lives. He is the unchanging source of any good we have ever had, have now, or will ever experience in the future. 

Now James completes that thought with an example of one of God's greatest good gifts to us. God gave us new life in Christ. That's an essential truth, but also something easy to take for granted. It's a necessary thought to hold on to in the middle of trials. Specifically, God brought us forth—or gave us birth—by His own will. He wanted to! God has cared about us from the beginning. 

James writes that God gave us birth by the Word of truth. Maybe James uses the "Word of truth" to refer to Christ as the means by which He saved us. He may also be referring to God's act of creation, bringing us to life as He brought the world to life with a word. In either case, we Christians are the "firstfruits" of His creation, likely meaning we have standing above all the rest of what He has made. 

What more evidence do we need that our God is good and loving and powerful and faithful to us? No matter how dark our circumstances in the moment, nothing can change the enormous good gift that God has given to us in Christ.

@Rosie1jack2pauline3 Reminds me also of Philippians 1.6: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ"

[Your closest friendnt]

12 hours ago, enoob57 said:

This is the elective predestined will of God that through His Word all else will be established.

John 17:8-23 (KJV)

[8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

[9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

[10] And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

[12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

[13] And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

[14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

[23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The election of God begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation as the written Word from The Holy Spirit is the foundational aspect where all else is built upon...

As Israel God's elect...
Isaiah 45:4 (KJV)
[4] For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Romans 3:1=2 (KJV)
[1] What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
[2] Much every way: >chiefly,< because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

why Elect(?)
Acts 7:38 (KJV)
[38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

 

 

It was The Father through The Son that spoke, (The Word), of creation into existence and all men born into it knows God 'IS' by said creation:
Romans 1:20 (KJV)
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

All men from the beginning to the end have this witness and are without excuse according to the Election of God through His Creative Word... further:
It was Father's intent that His Son would come in flesh and live the perfection that resides in God alone:
1 John 4:9 (KJV)
[9] In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

 

This The Same Word Who The Father created through- now has come into flesh Jn 1. To provide The Gospel of His Salvation...

God has provided a personal detailed instruction set by the Power of the Holy Spirit called the Scripture/Oracles of God to all of mankind:
2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

God who is no respect of persons has provided His provision/elective purposes for the world through His Creative Word, His Written Word, His Living Word the offer of salvation to all of mankind so perfectly stated here:
John 3:16 (KJV)
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

 

    Thank you for the scriptures and I cannot say the same thing about your comments and I hope that you do not wish anyone blindfolded to say Amen to your comments. 

This is copy and paste from your last paragraph in your quoted post "John 3:16 (KJV)
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
 

([18] He that believeth on him is not condemned:

but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. ") 

comments

>>I want to know what is your comments on verse 18..

The first part is about those who believe "on him" that they are not condemned. 

(Did they believe in him by observing the creation?  

And the second part of verse 18 is about those who "did not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God" ....did they refused to believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God by observing the creation...or the messages that may imply by observing the creation...that someone has created them...is there any other message that can be given from the created things...besides that there is a Creator? 

Did Paul gave the instructions to Timothy after reading the Gospels and he sorted them out and he accepted the four only and he included in his statement to Timothy and or the epistles of the other disciples and the book of revelation? 

What Paul did say about those who are not included in neither of the two groups in John 18? 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[David1701]

16 hours ago, enoob57 said:

This is a common error of Calvinist... Here is a quote on the matter by David Allen that is excellent:

"Some Calvinists contend that unlimited atonement makes the atonement "potential" but not "actual" in that many for whom Jesus died never receive the benefits of the atonement (efficacy argument). 

At the heart of this argument is the belief in what is called the "efficacy of the atonement." Limitarians generally argue that somehow the atonement itself secures its own application for the elect. However, the atonement in and of itself does not secure its own application. Nowhere in Scripture is this taught. The application of the atonement by the Holy Spirit in regeneration serves as the efficacy for the atonement. The atonement is what legally grounds the salvation of any individual. The atonement itself 
does not make salvation "certain." God does that through the Holy Spirit at the point of regeneration when the benefits of the atonement (forgiveness of sins; salvation) are applied to the believer in Christ. 

Limitarians attempt to impale their opponents on the horns of a dilemma: 
    'either the atonement is actual, or it is only potential.' 
    But such an argument engages in equivocation and a false dilemma. The equivocation is the substitution of "atonement" for actual "salvation" when the atonement is applied. Atonement accomplished must be distinguished from atonement applied, as Scripture does. The atonement is an actual, completed event. There is nothing "potential" about it. However, "salvation" in the sense of atonement applied is potential for all for whom atonement has been accomplished, upon condition of faith. 

The limitarian errs by considering the atonement itself as a cause effected by God alone that brings about an effect (salvation for the elect) without any intervening condition. But this understanding of the atonement 
leaves out something important in the equation: 
    the reality of intervening conditions (biconditionals). For example, take the statement "Jesus actually saves all who believe." This is how Scripture puts things. Never in Scripture are we told that the atonement itself saves anyone. Scripture knows of no salvation apart from belief. 

Therefore, on the grounds of an accomplished atonement, Jesus is the potential Savior of all people. Salvation is not actualized until the mechanism of faith occurs. Before that point, salvation is, and in fact has to 
be, potential. According to Eph 2:3, even the unbelieving elect (thinking of election from a Calvinistic perspective) are under the wrath of God ("we were by nature children under wrath"). The atonement itself does not save anyone until faith is exercised.

Limitarians collapse the potentiality into actuality—a major error. Their logic proceeds in this fashion: 
    1. Jesus can only be the potential Savior of the ones for those sins he died. 
    2. Jesus did not die for the non-elect. 
    3. Therefore, there is no potential salvation for the non-elect."

This is all rationalisation, to try to justify his heretical teachings and to misrepresent those who present the truth.

Firstly, I've never heard the pejorative "Limitarians" before, but it is about as biased a term as one could come up with.  Does he not understand that both sides limit the atonement?

Provisionists make the atonement like a bridge that is as wide as the world, but that only goes half way across the divide between God and man (the other half to be made by sinful man's will/decision).

Believers in God's sovereignty in salvation teach, as the Bible does, that the atonement is a relatively narrow bridge, but it goes all the way across.

Here are some biblical statements, and what Provisionists and Bible believers teach about them.

Matt. 1:21 (Webster) And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. {JESUS: that is, Saviour, Heb}

Provisionist: Jesus did not save his people from their sins, but merely made it possible for everyone (whether his people or not) to be saved, contingent upon their exercise of alleged "free will".

Bible Believer: Jesus did exactly what the Bible states - he saved his people from their sins, on the cross.

Heb. 9:11,12 (Webster)

11 But Christ became an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
  12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Provisionist:  Jesus did not obtain eternal redemption, only potential redemption, contingent upon the will of sinful man.

Bible Believer:  Jesus did exactly as Scripture states - he obtained eternal redemption.

1 John 4:10 (Webster) In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Provisionist:  God did not send his Son to be the propitiation (a sacrifice that turns away wrath) for our sins, but only to be a potential propitiation for every single person, contingent upon sinful man's decision.  In other words, Jesus did not propitiate the Father for anyone, when he shed his blood and died on the cross.

Bible Believer: God sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins (i.e. Jesus propitiated the Father, on the cross, turning God's wrath away from all those for whom he died).

---The benefits of the redemption and propitiation are applied to us (God's beloved elect, chosen before the foundation of the world), when God makes us born again, giving us repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.

Ez. 36:26,27 (Webster)

 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
  27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

2 Tim. 2:25,26 (Webster)

 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose him; if God perhaps will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
  26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. {recover...: Gr. awake} {taken...: Gr. taken alive}

2 Pet. 1:1 (Webster) Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 

---The author of the article you quoted, has misquoted a Bible verse, to support his heresy (they do this kind of thing often).

Quote

According to Eph 2:3, even the unbelieving elect (thinking of election from a Calvinistic perspective) are under the wrath of God ("we were by nature children under wrath"). The atonement itself does not save anyone until faith is exercised.

Here is Eph. 2:3

Eph. 2:3 (Webster) Among whom also we all had our manner of life in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. {desires: Gr. wills}

---The Bible says that we were, by nature, children of wrath (i.e. before we were saved, we deserved wrath just as much as everyone else, due to our sinful nature).  It does not say "children under wrath", as the twister misquoted (or, perhaps he used a loose paraphrase, instead of a proper translation - the effect is the same).

Also note that both sides teach that we are not saved until we believe; however, it is not a case of faith being "exercised" as if it were somehow present but unused previously!  Real faith is either active, or non-existent, there is no such thing as unused faith.

Edited January 15, 2023 by David1701