Unclean Spirits, Divine Healing and Modern Medicine

[FJK]

49 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

ou've never been on the streets with the homeless?

I've been the homeless, several years living in my car because I had no place to go.

Wee used different drugs then I guess.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

You can go on you tube right now and see videos of demon possessed people... that way you can say you have seen this before.

[Starise]

On 8/28/2023 at 7:13 PM, The Barbarian said:

They've been directly observed to do so.   Remember what evolution is?   Change in allele frequency in a population over time.    Here's an interesting one:

In 1975, a team of Japanese scientists discovered a strain of bacterium, living in ponds containing waste water from a nylon factory, that could digest certain byproducts of nylon 6 manufacture, such as the linear dimer of 6-aminohexanoate. These substances are not known to have existed before the invention of nylon in 1935. It was initially named as Achromobacter guttatus.^[4]

Studies in 1977 revealed that the three enzymes that the bacteria were using to digest the byproducts were significantly different from any other enzymes produced by any other bacteria, and not effective on any material other than the manmade nylon byproducts.^[5]...

More importantly, the enzyme involved was produced by a mutation completely randomizing the original gene.^{[dubious – discuss]} Despite this, the new gene still had a novel, albeit weak, catalytic capacity. This is seen as a good example of how mutations easily can provide the raw material for evolution by natural selection.^{[17][18][19][20]}

A 1995 paper showed that scientists have also been able to induce another species of bacterium, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, to evolve the capability to break down the same nylon byproducts in a laboratory by forcing them to live in an environment with no other source of nutrients. The P. aeruginosa strain NK87 did not seem to use the same enzymes^{[dubious – discuss]} that had been utilized by the original KI72 strain.^[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon-eating_bacteria

 

 

Still bacteria....................

[The Barbarian]

On 8/28/2023 at 10:45 PM, Retrobyter said:

We must agree to disagree. The problem, I believe, is simply this: Regardless how many changes in the allele population frequencies there may be, @RV_Wizard is still correct; the kind doesn't change

Even most creationists now admit that new kinds of living things evolve from existing kinds.

Remember, "kind" is not a taxonomic term; it's just means a particular group of things.   

On 8/28/2023 at 10:45 PM, Retrobyter said:

It has NEVER been observed to be otherwise. One kind has NEVER become another kind.

Well, let's test that.   Give us a testable definition of "kind."    If it's not testable, it's merely a belief without foundation.   

On 8/28/2023 at 10:45 PM, Retrobyter said:

"Species" is a word assigned to the classification of plants and animals by Carl Linnaeus, but "kinds" is the classification given by YHWH God Himself.

Since the Bible says that bats and birds are the same kind, (even says that bats are birds) that would be a rather broad category.     The classification system in the Bible is a functional one e.g. "vertebrates that fly."    And biological classification systems are by descent.    Entirely different things.

But let's see if you can show us a testable definition for "kind."   Then we'll go out and see how well it works.

 

[FJK]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

Even most creationists now admit that new kinds of living things evolve from existing kinds.

Remember, "kind" is not a taxonomic term; it's just means a particular group of things.   

Well, let's test that.   Give us a testable definition of "kind."    If it's not testable, it's merely a belief without foundation.   

Since the Bible says that bats and birds are the same kind, (even says that bats are birds) that would be a rather broad category.     The classification system in the Bible is a functional one e.g. "vertebrates that fly."    And biological classification systems are by descent.    Entirely different things.

But let's see if you can show us a testable definition for "kind."   Then we'll go out and see how well it works.

 

You realize that your argument here would seem to be a semantic one rather than either a scientific or Biblical one?

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, FJK said:

You realize that your argument here would seem to be a semantic one rather than either a scientific or Biblical one?

Yes.   Because assuming "kind" as in the Bible is a taxonomic term, is a semantic error.   As I pointed out, "bird kind" in the Bible includes bats.   It's a functional definition.   Whales are considered "fish kind."

So trying to do biology with such a definition, will always mislead people.

 

[The Barbarian]

Example of the evolution of an entirely new enzyme system in bacteria.

On 10/9/2023 at 1:23 PM, Starise said:

Still bacteria....................

... and humans are still primates.    Somehow, that doesn't seem to be an adequate excuse for observed evolution.

 

[RV_Wizard]

On 3/20/2024 at 4:45 PM, The Barbarian said:

As I pointed out, "bird kind" in the Bible includes bats.   It's a functional definition.   Whales are considered "fish kind."

That part is true.  Locusts are referenced as fowl.  One of the favorite arguments of the ungodly and uninformed is a reference to "six legged fowl," which they presume to mean birds.  The reference is a locust. 

The Bible also says a "great fish" swallowed Jonah.  A whale's throat is usually too small, so what swallowed Jonah?  There are things in the sea that we are still discovering.  Perhaps it was a large fish which may well now be extinct.  You see cartoons of Jonah sitting in the belly of a giant whale with a candle.  It isn't true.  Jonah died and his spirit went to sheol.  It was there where God answered his prayers and delivered him alive from the belly of the great fish.  People say, "How could a man live three days in the belly of a fish?"  He couldn't.  Jonah was dead.

[RdJ]

On 10/9/2023 at 8:23 PM, Starise said:

Still bacteria....................

Interesting though. Sounds like God made them with the possibility to change for the good, but satan and Adam and Eve messed it up and death came and now evolution can be demonic, bacteria and viruses causing diseases and becoming restistant to medicine.

Also I wondered if some of these extreme dinosaurs were changed by nephilim. May not be the case, but I was just wondering, cause they were so evil.

Oh apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that.

https://books.google.nl/books/about/Dinosaurs_Weren_t_Created_by_God.html?id=qYuY9Ae4XQAC&redir_esc=y

Edited March 24, 2024 by RdJ

[The Barbarian]

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

 

The Bible also says a "great fish" swallowed Jonah.  A whale's throat is usually too small, so what swallowed Jonah?  There are things in the sea that we are still discovering.  Perhaps it was a large fish which may well now be extinct.  You see cartoons of Jonah sitting in the belly of a giant whale with a candle.  It isn't true.  Jonah died and his spirit went to sheol.  It was there where God answered his prayers and delivered him alive from the belly of the great fish.  People say, "How could a man live three days in the belly of a fish?"  He couldn't.  Jonah was dead.

Again, you revised scripture to fit your wishes.   You shouldn't do that.