The End of this Age

[WilliamL]

10 hours ago, The Light said:

 the Church age is over BEFORE the seals are opened. The end of the age is the gathering from heaven and earth that takes place at the 6th seal.

So if the Church age " is over BEFORE the seals are opened," then what are you calling the age that you say ends at the 6th seal??

[truth7t7]

53 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

The resurrection of the saved will be 1,000 years BEFORE the resurrection of the unsaved, which is clearly communicated in Rev 20:5.  

"False"

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

[FreeGrace]

4 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

"False"

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Rev 20-

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 

6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

1 Cor 15:23 -  But eachin turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

So, 1 Cor 15:23 establishes the fact that ALL believers (those who belong to Him) will be resurrected "when He comes", a clear reference to the Second Advent.

And that is shown in the end of Rev 19.  So the martyrs which are resurrected are a part of ALL believers who are resurrected "when He comes".

Rev 20:5 PROVES that the resurrection of the saved will be 1,000 years BEFORE the next resurrection, which will be for all the unsaved.  

The "rest of the dead" per Rev 20:5 refers to ALL unbelievers.  So there is a clear statement here about the space of time between the 2 resurrections.

So your "reading" of John 5:28,29 is in error.  

 

[kenny2212]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

You simply misunderstand a lot of Scripture.  Rev 20 couldn't be any more clear and straightforward.  But you've twisted it into meaning nothing by "spiritualizing" it, which lets you make any claim you want.

Why anyone would PRESUME everything written in a verse means IMMEDIATELY occurring just shows bias.
For example, 3 verses mention the resurrection of the saved and the lost together.  So some presume they will occur at the same time.  But none of the verses say they will occur together, and Rev 20 plainly shows believers are resurrected "when He comes" which is the Second Advent, and and there is no reason to presume Jesus will wait to reward all resurrected glorified believers until after the MK, at the GWT judgment.

The resurrection of the saved will be 1,000 years BEFORE the resurrection of the unsaved, which is clearly communicated in Rev 20:5.  

You can reject the truth, but that doesn't change the truth.

The GWT Judgement: Now it would be redundant for God to check whether a person's name was in the book of life if HELL just gave him/her up. 

[kenny2212]

6 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Rev 20-

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 

6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

1 Cor 15:23 -  But eachin turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

So, 1 Cor 15:23 establishes the fact that ALL believers (those who belong to Him) will be resurrected "when He comes", a clear reference to the Second Advent.

And that is shown in the end of Rev 19.  So the martyrs which are resurrected are a part of ALL believers who are resurrected "when He comes".

Rev 20:5 PROVES that the resurrection of the saved will be 1,000 years BEFORE the next resurrection, which will be for all the unsaved.  

The "rest of the dead" per Rev 20:5 refers to ALL unbelievers.  So there is a clear statement here about the space of time between the 2 resurrections.

So your "reading" of John 5:28,29 is in error.  

 

The GWT Judgement: Now it would be redundant for God to check whether a person's name was in the book of life if HELL just gave him/her up. 

[OneLight]

Here's something I've wondered over the years.  After the rapture, I believe there will be many who do come to Christ between the rapture and the GWT Judgment.  What is said about them in scripture?  When will they be judged or receive their glorified bodies?  I don't believe all Christians will be killed by Satan before Jesus return, so what about them?  Will they be any who become His during the millennium?  If so, what about them?

Scripture is silent on this, so I wonder if we also should accept that not all questions have answers in scripture? 

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

The GWT Judgement: Now it would be redundant for God to check whether a person's name was in the book of life if HELL just gave him/her up. 

When do you think the Bema and the GWT judgment will occur?  

If you think the Bema occurs when the GWT does, please explain why all believers will have 1,000 years serving/reigning with the King before they are rewarded.

Thanks.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

Here's something I've wondered over the years.  After the rapture, I believe there will be many who do come to Christ between the rapture and the GWT Judgment.  What is said about them in scripture?  When will they be judged or receive their glorified bodies?  I don't believe all Christians will be killed by Satan before Jesus return, so what about them?  Will they be any who become His during the millennium?  If so, what about them?

Scripture is silent on this, so I wonder if we also should accept that not all questions have answers in scripture? 

Great question!  It is clear from 1 Cor 15:23 that all believers will be resurrected "when He comes", which is a direct reference to the Second Advent.  In Rev 20:4-6 we see that there will be 1,000 years between the 2nd Advent and the GWT judgment, and is the MK.

There will be a world-wide rebellion at the end, when Satan is loosened.  All living people at that time will be fried by fire from heaven.  Then, all unbelievers will be resurrected into their mortal bodies and judged at the GWT and then cast into the LOF, where their mortal physical body gets to DIE AGAIN, hence the "second death".

1 Cor 15:23 makes clear that all saved people will be resurrected "when He comes", which is a direct reference to the 2nd Advent.

So it appears that there will be NO person saved after the 2nd Advent.  If so, how can 1 Cor 15:23 be true?  There is no mention of any further glorification of mortal believers after the 2nd Advent.  

And the Bible says that the King will "rule the nations with a rod of iron".  Does that sound like Jesus ruling over resurrected believers?  Not to me.  But certainly to all the surviving unbelievers from the Tribulation.  And they won't be all that keen on His rule, since all during the Tribulation, they REFUSED to repent of all the judgments and wrath against them.  All they did was to "dig in" in resistance.

So that explains why Jesus will "rule with a rod of iron" during the MK.

[OneLight]

31 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Great question!  It is clear from 1 Cor 15:23 that all believers will be resurrected "when He comes", which is a direct reference to the Second Advent.  In Rev 20:4-6 we see that there will be 1,000 years between the 2nd Advent and the GWT judgment, and is the MK.

There will be a world-wide rebellion at the end, when Satan is loosened.  All living people at that time will be fried by fire from heaven.  Then, all unbelievers will be resurrected into their mortal bodies and judged at the GWT and then cast into the LOF, where their mortal physical body gets to DIE AGAIN, hence the "second death".

1 Cor 15:23 makes clear that all saved people will be resurrected "when He comes", which is a direct reference to the 2nd Advent.

So it appears that there will be NO person saved after the 2nd Advent.  If so, how can 1 Cor 15:23 be true?  There is no mention of any further glorification of mortal believers after the 2nd Advent.  

Let's take a look.  We see in the scripture below that the only ones who will reign with Christ for the 1000 years are those who were beheaded for not following the beast.  No mention of anyone else reigning with Christ during that time, but then, when Satan attacks after being bound for the 1000 years, we read about the saints also.  Where did these saints come from if they are not new believers?

Revelation 20:4-10

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I underlined the verses that speak of the priests, saints and the beloved city.  I just can't fathom how, over a period of 1000 years, nobody will turn to follow Christ.

31 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

And the Bible says that the King will "rule the nations with a rod of iron".  Does that sound like Jesus ruling over resurrected believers?  Not to me.  But certainly to all the surviving unbelievers from the Tribulation.  And they won't be all that keen on His rule, since all during the Tribulation, they REFUSED to repent of all the judgments and wrath against them.  All they did was to "dig in" in resistance.

So that explains why Jesus will "rule with a rod of iron" during the MK.

If you consider during what stage of the process this is talking about, it may become clearer.  This is when Christ returns and defeats the Beast and his armies.  Through this judgment, it is clear He is judging and ruling with a rod of iron.

Not sure why you would include all resurrected believers in your post, as the only resurrected believers spoken of during the millennium are those who were killed for not following the beast, nor took his mark.

I've heard some say that there will be no death or newborns during the millennium.  Are you suggesting the same, as I don't believe this is true.  I also reject the possibility that nobody will accept Jesus during this time.  This is why I see the probability that more will be going on than what is in scripture when it comes to believers after the rapture.

[kenny2212]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

Here's something I've wondered over the years.  After the rapture, I believe there will be many who do come to Christ between the rapture and the GWT Judgment.  What is said about them in scripture?  When will they be judged or receive their glorified bodies?  I don't believe all Christians will be killed by Satan before Jesus return, so what about them?  Will they be any who become His during the millennium?  If so, what about them?

Scripture is silent on this, so I wonder if we also should accept that not all questions have answers in scripture? 

The Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints (Only) > The Millennial Kingdom (Includes unbelievers who make it alive through the tribulation) > The Great White Throne Judgement (Only for the dead).