Help me understand ....

[Jaydub]

7 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Yet the name of a literal city was chosen as a moniker.  Why?

Its symbolic, it represents wickedness, defiance to God and his people. We can see it all the way back to Babel, defiance, disobedience, sin,

when God call out to his people come out of her my people, do you really think he wants his people to leave a literal city. You think God is saying come out of Jerusalem my people or come out of the Vatican my people or Come out of the United States. No, God is saying come out of this sinful world, because we are not of this world. He wants us to come out of our sin, repent because Judgement is coming and only Gods people will be saved.

We are the called out ones, God has called out his people so that when his wrath comes we will be saved

[Last Daze]

12 hours ago, Jaydub said:

Its symbolic, it represents wickedness, defiance to God and his people. We can see it all the way back to Babel, defiance, disobedience, sin,

when God call out to his people come out of her my people, do you really think he wants his people to leave a literal city. You think God is saying come out of Jerusalem my people or come out of the Vatican my people or Come out of the United States. No, God is saying come out of this sinful world, because we are not of this world. He wants us to come out of our sin, repent because Judgement is coming and only Gods people will be saved.

We are the called out ones, God has called out his people so that when his wrath comes we will be saved

It might seem like a technicality but Babylon is not sin; Babylon causes sin.  And not all sin is the result of Babylon.  Our sinful nature figures in as well.

Babylon will be destroyed when Jesus returns to set up His kingdom, however, sin will still exist in the millennial kingdom because of the sin nature.  Its just that Babylon won't be there to egg it on.

Yes, we see it in Babel. Babel was a literal city that excelled in wickedness.  The Babylon moniker is used to describe organized defiance and rebellion against God.  The last days manifestation of such is pictured in Rev 17 as the Harlot, apostate Israel. What "the city which reigns over the kings of the earth" is a reference to is yet to be seen.

[iamlamad]

On 3/12/2023 at 12:49 PM, FJK said:

Does Revelation 18 take place before, during, or at the end of the Tribulation, and who are the "my people" of 18:4?

Following John's timeline, the Week will end at the 7th bowl, so the events of chapter 18 are rehearsing the 7th bowl and what takes place immediately after—but before Jesus returns. It is of course about Jerusalem and the Jews living in that city. The great city will be destroyed by fire and earthquakes—not to mention it will be surrounded by the armies of the world and almost completely overtaken. Jesus comes just before that.

[Shilohsfoal]

On 3/12/2023 at 12:49 PM, FJK said:

Does Revelation 18 take place before, during, or at the end of the Tribulation, and who are the "my people" of 18:4?

Babylon is apostate Israel.

Jerusalem is apostate Israel's mother and sits upon seven hills.

It is God's chosen people Israel who come out of apostle Israel.Israel is a name given to someone who has overcome.

During the tribulation,the harlot Babylon persecutes the saints in Israel ,and is then destroyed .

The saints (Israel)then inherit the promised land .

[FJK]

11 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Babylon is apostate Israel.

Jerusalem is apostate Israel's mother and sits upon seven hills.

It is God's chosen people Israel who come out of apostle Israel.Israel is a name given to someone who has overcome.

During the tribulation,the harlot Babylon persecutes the saints in Israel ,and is then destroyed .

The saints (Israel)then inherit the promised land .

This is where I get a little confused and conflicted in my thinking.

Do the events of Revelation as a whole take place in Israel or are they spread throughout the rest of the world as well with some of them happening there and others happening elsewhere, outside of Israel, or elsewhere as well as there?   Are they worldwide in nature or specific to Israel and surrounding areas?

[Shilohsfoal]

30 minutes ago, FJK said:

This is where I get a little confused and conflicted in my thinking.

Do the events of Revelation as a whole take place in Israel or are they spread throughout the rest of the world as well with some of them happening there and others happening elsewhere, outside of Israel, or elsewhere as well as there?   Are they worldwide in nature or specific to Israel and surrounding areas?

They are not worldwide.

Almost all the things in revelation pertain to the middle east and the country called Israel as 99 percent of the bible does.

Alot of people say those events are worldwide but I don't see it that way.

Revelation 16:16

Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

People have gotten so used to speaking of things such as Armageddon as an event,they have forgotten that is actually a place as revelation 16:16 says it is.Its just little things like this,that gets overlooked.

[FJK]

3 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Almost all the things in revelation pertain to the middle east and the country called Israel as 99 percent of the bible does.

So, how do we know  which things take place only there and which also take place elsewhere or only elseewhere?

(i.e. will the Mark of the Beast only be given in Israel and related areas or will Christians everywhere be facing it as well?  Will the "rapture" of the Church only take place in in Israel, or will it apply to all Christians everywhere?)

Basically, is the book of Revelation meant only for the Jews (in Israel) or is it something non Jewish Christians outside of Israel will be a part of as well?

This seems a little trivial and picky, but it is becoming important to me in my understanding of Revelation and whether I should pay attention to or just ignore it as a practical matter in my life.

[Shilohsfoal]

2 minutes ago, FJK said:

So, how do we know  which things take place only there and which also take place elsewhere or only elseewhere?

(i.e. will the Mark of the Beast only be given in Israel and related areas or will Christians everywhere be facing it as well?  Will the "rapture" of the Church only take place in in Israel, or will it apply to all Christians everywhere?)

Basically, is the book of Revelation meant only for the Jews (in Israel) or is it something non Jewish Christians outside of Israel will be a part of as well?

This seems a little trivial and picky, but it is becoming important to me in my understanding of Revelation and whether I should pay attention to or just ignore it as a practical matter in my life.

The mark of the beast has been in the making for awhile now.Its Benjamin Netanyahus vision .

https://www.latimes.com/world/la-xpm-2013-sep-17-la-fg-wn-israel-cashless-economy-20130917-story.html

With Israel's new goverment about to strip the supreme court of it's power,I'd say netanyahu is only a couple years away from realizing his dream.Netayahu likes technology.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/benjamin-netanyahu-suggests-to-microchip-kids-slammed-by-experts-627381

"That is, technology that has not been used before and is allowed under the legislation we shall enact," he clarified.

 

 

As for the rapture,I've not seen a rapture in revelation at all.Nothing even similar to it mentioned in revelation.

[FJK]

11 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

As for the rapture,I've not seen a rapture in revelation at all.Nothing even similar to it mentioned in revelation.

Actually, I sort of agree with you here.  The Rapture never seemed to be directly expressed in Revelation or elsewhere in the Bible but is always referenced to occurring at some point during the events of Revelation (pre, mid, post) for reasons that seem more modern in origin than from the earlier years of the Church.

But the Mark is mentioned and I'm wondering now if that will apply only to Israel or to those in other parts of the world as well, whether they be Christians, Jews or other nations and peoples.  I suppose that might come down to who "all" includes when all are required to take it.

[Shilohsfoal]

3 minutes ago, FJK said:

Actually, I sort of agree with you here.  The Rapture never seemed to be directly expressed in Revelation or elsewhere in the Bible but is always referenced to occurring at some point during the events of Revelation (pre, mid, post) for reasons that seem more modern in origin than from the earlier years of the Church.

But the Mark is mentioned and I'm wondering now if that will apply only to Israel or to those in other parts of the world as well, whether they be Christians, Jews or other nations and peoples.  I suppose that might come down to who "all" includes when all are required to take it.

I used to worry about it.Thats why I studied as much as I could till I understood what takes place.

All,in the country called Israel recieve it .

Except the wise who don't.Revelation isn't the only book that speaks of that time or the second beast that's practices the authority of the first beast on its behalf.

 

 

Daniel 11

³¹ And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh 

³² And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

³³ And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

³⁴ Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

³⁵ And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

 

If your worried about it as I was,then start comparing scripture to learn more.It pays to compare scripture .

Daniel 12:4

But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the scroll until the end of time. Many will go back and forth and search anxiously [through the scroll], and knowledge [of the purpose of God as revealed by His prophets] will [greatly] increase.”