Women Pastors

[DeighAnn]

15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Would it be correct to say he is saying the only way a woman can be saved is in childbearing?  All those not bearing children are out?  I don't think so.

Does anyone ever consider we are being 'proven' as to how we might judge, say, for the Millennium?  

It is obvious that God DOES call upon women, always has.  He made sure to give examples of women LEADING Israel...

How one addresses some 'verses' may speak more to WHO THEY ARE, rather than what is written. 

 

14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Just saying....maybe
 

[JohnD]

On 3/17/2023 at 4:51 AM, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I just noticed in the news that Rick Warren has been disfellowshipped for his views and actions on permitting female pastors in the church. I know this is a controversial issue, but I'm curious to know what people think scripture teaches on this subject. In my personal belief, I think scripture makes it quite clear that 1 Timothy 2:12 settles the question. No doubt there will be others who disagree. Please tell me your thoughts.

I used to be in this camp. In fact, I believed it was one of my callings to seek out those who "violated" this command of the Apostle Paul harassing them with selected scriptures (not the least of which was equating these women with the spirit of Jezebel in Revelation 2):

Revelation 2:18–23 (KJV)
18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira† write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

† which I mockingly called the Church of Thigh-high attire...

I argued and debated the "infraction" of women preachers / teachers of grown males six ways from Sunday, from Judges 4 to Revelation 2 and 1 Timothy 2:11-14 which referred back to Genesis 3:16. I threw in:

Jeremiah 31:22 (KJV)
22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.

And:

Isaiah 4:1 (KJV)
1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

I argued in the Hebrew about Moses' sister Miryam leading only women in the procession and how Priscilla and Aquila were more or less deacons who probably served food and drinks... and how Juna was named outstanding [by] the Apostles not [as] an Apostle:

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Then one day, I had a revelation from the Holy Spirit. It was by no means as dramatic as the Damascus Road conversion of Paul, but I was persecuting dear believers in Jesus unwittingly. Until the still small voice came to me after my holy, sanctimonious tirade on women preachers...  

"Then it would be better that no one hears the Gospel then that a woman teach it or preach it before men?"

I was undone. I was not struck blind but mine eyes were opened. I was not knocked off my mule, but I was on my face in repentance before God. How could I be so belligerent and so stupid? The Bible spells out the will of God in the sense that he gives us his greatest / best conditions and circumstances. But we do not live in Eden anymore. And we always fall short of God's perfect will. Always.

God opened my eyes to the fact that all believers in Jesus Christ are priests of God (Revelation 1:6 / Revelation 5:10 / 1 Peter 2:3-9)... and until the millions of male believers step up to the ministry who have not but are pursuing worldliness... then we are in the same short fall the prophetess Deborah was in when cowardice Barak refused to lead the armies of God into battle. Unnamed were the male prophets at the time who no doubt suffered from the same yellow belly affliction.

That until the men of the body of Christ step up in adequate numbers, God bless the women who fill in the gap!!! Just as Deborah did. Just as the women did who went to the tomb of Jesus while his disciples hid in fear.

If you, dear Brother, have a problem with women preachers... then YOU step up into ministry full time.

[kwikphilly]

14 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Would it be correct to say he is saying the only way a woman can be saved is in childbearing?  All those not bearing children are out?  I don't think so.

Does anyone ever consider we are being 'proven' as to how we might judge, say, for the Millennium?  

It is obvious that God DOES call upon women, always has.  He made sure to give examples of women LEADING Israel...

How one addresses some 'verses' may speak more to WHO THEY ARE, rather than what is written. 

 

14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Just saying....maybe
 

Yes,I believe you are right

It's funny ,there is not many things I'm ever " on the fence" about but this is one for sure.... I do know of & do know many women who have been and are Called into leadership positions--- still ,as TrueFollower has explained " yes to preach but not in Authority over men" (;he said it much better than In relaying but I can't quote on this device)- then MrM gave Joyce Meyer as a perfect example and how her husband( her Authority) supports her fully....I get both their positions and do not disagree with them

I like what you are saying- it's WHO God Calls for His Purpose and no doubt their position will align perfectly with Scripture

My church has a woman Pastor,single,never been married- she never assumes the role of Authority OVER any of the elder men-you can see everyone in their respective place -;it's pretty Amazing really (still I'm not so comfortable,I think missing Pastor who died might be part of that?)

Thanks for sharing

[Alive]

5 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Yes,I believe you are right

It's funny ,there is not many things I'm ever " on the fence" about but this is one for sure.... I do know of & do know many women who have been and are Called into leadership positions--- still ,as TrueFollower has explained " yes to preach but not in Authority over men" (;he said it much better than In relaying but I can't quote on this device)- then MrM gave Joyce Meyer as a perfect example and how her husband( her Authority) supports her fully....I get both their positions and do not disagree with them

I like what you are saying- it's WHO God Calls for His Purpose and no doubt their position will align perfectly with Scripture

My church has a woman Pastor,single,never been married- she never assumes the role of Authority OVER any of the elder men-you can see everyone in their respective place -;it's pretty Amazing really (still I'm not so comfortable,I think missing Pastor who died might be part of that?)

Thanks for sharing

I generally stay out of this discussion. For a few reasons, but singularly, I believe the Lord means for these sorts of things to be handled at the local level, where, If the Lord is held to be Head…He will advise.

[Mr. M]

4 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Yes,I believe you are right

It's funny ,there is not many thinks I'm ever " on the fence" about but this is one for sure.... I do know of & do know many women who have been and are Called into leadership positions--- still ,as TrueFollower has explained " yes to preach but not in Authority over men" (;he said it much better but I can't quote on this device)- then MrM gave Joyce Meyer as a perfect example and how her husband( her Authority) supports her fully....I get both their positions and do not disagree with them

I like what you are saying- it's WHO God Calls for His Purpose and no doubt their position will align perfectly with Scripture

My church has a woman Pastor,single,never been married- she never assumes the role of Authority of any of the elder men-you can see everyone in their respective place -;it's pretty Amazing really (still I'm not so comfortable,I think missing Pastor who died might be part of that?)

Thanks for sharing

The only solution always has and always will be to discern the Spirit to determine the Lord's Will.

2 Corinthians 10:18 For not he who commends himself is approved, but whom the Lord commends.

Notice how this and so many topics are disputes over words...

2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[kwikphilly]

5 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

The only solution always has and always will be to discern the Spirit to determine the Lord's Will.

2 Corinthians 10:18 For not he who commends himself is approved, but whom the Lord commends.

Notice how this and so many topics are disputes over words...

2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Amen!!!! Funny ,I love almost all the posts everyone has  shared- they are all(except maybe one)that are to be considered but most of all,prayed about!

I Know God is Never out of Order and His Word is Truth - there are many plans in a man's heart never the less it is the Lord's Course that Will Stand( Prove 19:20). 

We often mean very well ,don't we? But we must always Follow His Lead,no matter how it might seem or what we think we know!

With love in Christ, Kwik

[Alive]

Yes--this is good stuff. Scripture verses that point to the new covenant and helpful.

This topic deals with specificity and that being instructions as to how the gathering of an assembly ought to be conducted. Some folks think the admonishment by Paul was given particularly to Corinth because of a variety of issues at that local expression. This discussion has gone on in my scope of influence since I was in my 20's.

:-)

[Mr. M]

1 minute ago, kwikphilly said:

Amen!!!! Funny ,I love almost all the posts everyone has  shared- they are all(except maybe one)that are to be considered but most of all,prayed about!

I Know God is Never out of Order and His Word is Truth - there are many plans in a man's heart never the less it is the Lord's Course that Will Stand( Prove 19:20). 

We often mean very well ,don't we? But we must always Follow His Lead,no matter how it might seem or what we think we know!

With love in Christ, Kwik

If I were to discern the Spirit in Paul's teaching, it is that matters in the home should take precedence with regards to the relation between husband and wife. A key qualification for shepherding the Lord's flock is that of a man who has successfully navigated the intricacies of the home and family. If a woman is up for consideration for a position of leadership, a good question would be, "how will her commitment to the congregation affect the order in the home".

[Alive]

5 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

If I were to discern the Spirit in Paul's teaching, it is that matters in the home should take precedence with regards to the relation between husband and wife. A key qualification for shepherding the Lord's flock is that of a man who has successfully navigated the intricacies of the home and family. If a woman is up for consideration for a position of leadership, a good question would be, "how will her commitment to the congregation affect the order in the home".

I perfect example or illustrating or pointing to the position that this stuff be dealt with locally.

It sounds wishy washy, but this is why along with my last post's content, that I do not take a rigid doctrinal position. on the OP's topic.

[kwikphilly]

2 minutes ago, Alive said:

I perfect example or illustrating pointing to the position that this stuff be dealt with locally.

It sounds wishy washy, but this is why along with my last post's content, that I do not take a rigid doctrinal position. on the OP's topic.

I sooooo agree and many a situation is very very different- like my church Pastor,she lives alone,single,never married( not for everyone,as Paul's own life was not for everyone)

This is really good stuff ,I just don't like when 1 Cor 14 gets used to support personal points of view - an important point to realize was the Church at Corinth must've been a disorderly bunch- the confusion was not about women's roles but about disrespectfully speaking out in church with their husbands standing there(;who does this?,lol) and speaking in tongues with no one to interpret,prophesying all at once- sounds like a free for all,lol.  It's often really taken out of context,don't you agree?