Revived Rome, or the Assyrian?

[Selah7]

3 minutes ago, Diaste said:

The beast is Satan's patsy, as is the FP. The beast and the FP are thrown alive into the lake of fire when Satan is bound in chains.

Your take is that it's actually Satan that is the beast and the FP, and is thrown alive into the lake of fire, when scripture clearly says the opposite. 

There are 3 beings: the beast, the FP and Satan. Satan is the dragon and the devil, NOT the beast and the FP.

We disagree for now sorry to say.  It’s okay.   s e l a h

[WilliamL]

On 3/25/2023 at 4:00 AM, Diaste said:

Who then is the king in Dan 11:36? You want to pirouette to Rome here when the entire narrative has been the Diadochi in general and Syria and Egypt in particular?

The real issue is verses 38-39, which begin with the words, "But in his place/estate shall he honor the god of fortresses..." The words "in his place/estate" always in Daniel 11 denote the change of rulership. Antiochus IV was the last major ruler of the Diadochi, although weaker rulers hung around for another century before their kingdoms were entirely snuffed out by the Romans.

AE came from Rome. His nature was Roman, and he likely had some substantial support from Romans, financial at least, in order to pull off his coup against the legitimate leadership of the Seleucid kingdom. After his death, "in his place/estate" a regime took over that used military fortresses, which is exactly what the Romans did, not the Greeks. AE's marked the transition between the Greek Diadachi and the Roman hegemony.

27. Antiochus Epiphanes and the End Times, Part 2: The Transition from the Past to the Present

Shows how the god-king Antiochus Epiphanes led the transition from the Greek Empire to the Roman Empire, and how the latter empireʼs posterity is found in modern Anglo-European governments. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1418-antiochus-epiphanes-and-the-end-times-part-2-the-transition-from-the-past-to-the-present/

[Revelation Man]

On 3/25/2023 at 5:27 AM, Diaste said:

This is only possible if one adds two kingdoms to the statue on Dan 2. That I can never do and no one else should either.

No, there are 4 Kingdom Beasts and ONE Beast Man, Babylon (Gold), Persia (Silver), Greece (Brass) Rome (Iron) and a ONE MAN Beast/Little Horn or The Anti-Christ (Iron & Clay) with 10 Toes or 10 Horns (who ARISE out of the Fourth Beasts Head) So, when the 10 (Complete Europe) reunite as the Iron & Clay, ANOTHER (The Anti-Christ/Little Horn) is born amongst them or in the E.U. 

So, is that 5 or 4? Looks like 5 to me, God doesn't always spell everything out, He leaves things vague on purpose, so only His children can dig out these truths. It surprises me when people think, well, it should say this, this and this, no, if it was that way the Pharisees would have understood who Jesus was. Why is it mysterious and vague? Because our FAITH makes us Righteous, not our knowledge. Lucifer knew God was perfect, but he believed in his ideals over God, he desired to be God. The problem with those not of the faith now in our world is they think they are their own gods. Just because only 4 Beast Kingdoms are spoken about doesn't mean there is not a 5th also, its very obvious, the other four were Beast Kingdoms, the Last Beast is a MAN. That = 5.

On 3/25/2023 at 5:27 AM, Diaste said:

There are 4 beasts.

On 3/24/2023 at 1:11 PM, Revelation Man said:

SEE ABOVE..............

On 3/25/2023 at 5:27 AM, Diaste said:

Where? Rome is never mentioned in Dan 2.

 

Wow, please tell me you are kidding. You do not understand that the Greatest Ever Beast of the Mediterranean Sea Region was a Dominating Beast? Remember Occam's Razor? Keep it simple, this is not hard brother, anyone who refuses to acknowledge Rome is just overthinking it all tbh.

Greece is ONE KINGDOM Beast. 

On 3/25/2023 at 5:27 AM, Diaste said:

It's surmised the iron is Rome by adding Assyria and Egypt to the statue. 

Mmmm, no, there are only 4 Beast Kingdoms an a Beast Man given unto Daniel, he was not given Egypt nor Assyria because he was looking forward in time, God did not need to confuse Israel at that time, the Pharisees still couldn't understand that Rome was not the Last Beast Man.

Assyria and Egypt is added in when John is told of the Seven Headed and 10 Horned Beast because he was in the future looking backwards in time.

 

On 3/25/2023 at 5:27 AM, Diaste said:

In a long documentary from Fall of Civilizations Assyria is called "The Empire of Iron".

Actually, Iron is not why it is called Iron, it is called Iron because like Iron SMASHES, Rome, unlike the other three Beast Kingdoms, ruled every square inch of "THE EARTH" being spoken about, the Beasts all came out of what? The Great Sea (the Mediterranean Sea), thus Babylon was fine gold (a softer meatal), also used to puff up Nebuchadnezzar so he would give favor to Daniel, IMHO. Then we get Persia who was Silver, harder than gold but softer than Brass. Then of course Greece was Brass, which is softer than Iron, which is a very hard substance. Rome was more ruthless than all of the other Kingdoms, that is why they have the Iron Teeth, that is why they ruled so long, that is why they (KEY) Ruled EVERY SQUARE INCH of the Mediterranean Coastline, unlike the other three, the trampled down EVERYTHING.

See how Greece only ruled about half of the Mediterranean Sea Coastline? If that much, now look at Rome, they ruled every square inch, or ALL the Earth/Land being spoken about via the 7 Heads and 10 Horns. NEWSFLASH, the Anti-Christ does not conquer the whole world, that is just bad Eschatology, he rules the exact same Landmass below, when the E.U. Anti-Christ goes forth Conquering, as shown in Dan. 11:40-43, he's a Greek born man ruling from the E.U. (With Assyria blood/ Turkish or Iraqi blood from Old Assyria)

This is why the Fourth Beast treaded down the WHOLE EARTH or Land being spoken about. 

Dan. 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. { Its not about the Iron Age per se, it is about how Cruel, and totally bruising/ruthless Rome was., hence the Hard Metal.}

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided;(the End time E.U. via the Iron and Clay is the Base of the Last Beast A.C.) but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. (Many Nations trying to be ONE NATION = todays E.U.)

On 3/25/2023 at 5:27 AM, Diaste said:

Rome is never called that in anything I have read, except of course by marginal teachers of prophecy.

As a man called unto Prophecy going on 38 years now, this is not even a hard understanding, people simply overthink the facts, in many cases so it fits their preconceived ideas, sadly. Let's not get the cart in front of the horses.

EVERYONE knows Rome is the Fourth Beast brother. (by everyone, over 95 percent of people would be my guess, probably higher)

On 3/25/2023 at 5:27 AM, Diaste said:

If you consider a struggling backwater of people living in mud huts and fighting for their very lives against their neighbors as Rome, then sure. In 333 BC Rome wasn't yet Rome; a hundred years later it was very powerful. Rome existed in power during the Diadochi but before that, not so much.

The point remains, they coexisted as Beast Powers. The Last Beast will be a Greek born man (Dan. 8:9 MANDATES this) and he will come to power via the 10 (E.U.) which arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head. 

On 3/25/2023 at 5:27 AM, Diaste said:

I would say 1) is accurate.

2) is not as he conquers toward the west, which places him in the east, In Mesopotamia. 

3) is just wishful thinking. This is an ethno-, ego-centric pathos deeming a race as superior. It's going to be Ishmael, just like always.

1.) Correct, but blood travels.

2.) Dan. 8:9 says he conquers TOWARDS the East, TOWARDS the South and TOWARDS Israel. Dan. 11:40-43 shows us the same.

3.) Muslims in the E.U. and in the whole Mediterranean Sea Region will be WIPED OUT, the 10 Kings (E.U.) will destroy and KILL OFF the Harlot (All False Religion). 

You got this in you craw and you can't overcome the subtle untruths put forth by Satan, he is very sneaky. He does the exact same thing via the RCC/Pope angle which is also a lie. 

God Bless.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Revelation Man

[bloom]

There's been 7 versions of the beast according to Revelations 17. The U.N. contains them all. The east -west division of Rome divided the world and relates to the end time. The global south vs. the west ring a bell?

[Diaste]

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

No, there are 4 Kingdom Beasts and ONE Beast Man, Babylon (Gold), Persia (Silver), Greece (Brass) Rome (Iron) and a ONE MAN Beast/Little Horn or The Anti-Christ (Iron & Clay) with 10 Toes or 10 Horns (who ARISE out of the Fourth Beasts Head) So, when the 10 (Complete Europe) reunite as the Iron & Clay, ANOTER (The Anti-Christ/Little Horn) is born amongst them or in the E.U. 

I have heard you say Rev 17:10 shows Egypt and Assyria as beast kingdoms. It's how those in the pretrib mindset conjure the interpretation of Rev 17:10, "five are fallen, one is". 'One is' is Rome. The previous 5 are Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. 

 

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

He leaves things vague on purpose, so only His children can dig out these truths. 

Ha! If the Holy Spirit isn't revealing and leading to the truth then the children do not know the truth. 

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

Wow, please tell me you are kidding. You do not understand that the Greatest Ever Beast of the Mediterranean Sea Region was a Dominating Beast? Remember Occam's Razor? Keep it simple, this is not hard brother, anyone who refuses to acknowledge Rome is just overthinking it all tbh.

The most dominating force in the Mediterranean was Islam. Rome was longer lived but far less savage and destructive. 

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

Greece is ONE KINGDOM Beast. 

Mmmm, no, there are only 4 Beast Kingdoms an a Beast Man given unto Daniel, he was not given Egypt nor Assyria because he was looking forward in time, God did not need to confuse Israel at that time, the Pharisees still couldn't understand that Rome was not the Last Beast Man.

Assyria and Egypt is added in when John is told of the Seven Headed and 10 Horned Beast because he was in the future looking backwards in time.

Wow. I doubt that very much.

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

Actual Iron is not why it is called Iron, it is called Iron because like Iron SMASHES,

That was the point. You missed it. 

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

Rome, unlike the other three Beast Kingdoms, ruled every square inch of "THE EARTH" being spoken about, the Beasts all came out of what? The Great Sea (the Mediterranean Sea),

No they did not. Babylon and Medo-Persia are Mesopotamian, not Mediterranean. Even Greece ruled from Babylon, it's also where Alexander died.

 

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

Dan. 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. { Its not about the Iron Age per se, it is about how Cruel, and totally bruising/ruthless Rome was., hence the Hard Metal.}

I would say Assyria and Islam were far more ruthless and cruel than Rome. Shorter lived, but more vicious.

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided;(the End time E.U. via the Iron and Clay is the Base of the Last Beast A.C.) but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

This is just assumption. The mind can try to draw parallels as it sees fit. The narrative in Daniel 11 follows the Diadochi and the Seleucid dynasty. Daniel 11:29-31 even shows the interaction between Rome and AE IV then follows AE IV and his brutality against the Jews. Dan 11 does not follow Rome and in fact, except for the 'ships of the west', Rome is not even hinted at. There is no getting around this. 

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. (Many Nations trying to be ONE NATION = todays E.U.)

This speaks to infiltration of culture on a global scale, not an organization. 

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

As a man called unto Prophecy going on 38 years now, this is not even a hard understanding, people simply overthink the facts, in many cases so it fits their preconceived ideas, sadly. Let's not get the cart in front of the horses.

Don't appeal to authority or time. No one cares how long you have been at this. You may be wrong for 38 years.

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

EVERYONE knows Rome is the Fourth Beast brother. 

Now an appeal to the consensus? Maybe I should go back and root out the other fallacies presented as support for your position.

 

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

2.) Dan. 8:9 says he conquers TOWARDS the East, TOWARDS the South and TOWARDS Israel. Dan. 11:40-43 shows us the same.

Yes, but puts him in the middle of the east and west, possibly the North.  But this all relates to the Kingdoms of the Diadochi. The North would be Asia Minor, not Greece, which is the west. 

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

3.) Muslims in the E.U. and in the whole Mediterranean Sea Region will be WIPED OUT, the 10 Kings (E.U.) will destroy and KILL OFF the Harlot (All False Religion). 

Maybe, I don't see it.

On 3/26/2023 at 3:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

You got this in you craw and you can't overcome the subtle untruths put forth by Satan, he is very sneaky. He does the exact same thing via the RCC/Pope angle which is also a lie. 

God Bless.

A brutal accusation, then you bless? Wow.

[other one]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

A brutal accusation, then you bless? Wow.

Hummmm,   a good point.

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

I have heard you say Rev 17:10 shows Egypt and Assyria as beast kingdoms. It's how those in the pretrib mindset conjure the interpretation of Rev 17:10, "five are fallen, one is". 'One is' is Rome. The previous 5 are Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. 

It is COMMON SENSE, but it is not given in Daniel is it? That is what I stated, there are only 5 Beasts spoken of in Daniel, and 7 Beasts in Revelation 12, 13 and 17.  The 7 Heads represents 7 Powers, the Dragon has a CROWN in Rev. 12 on the 7 Heads, why? Because as we are shown in Luke 4  Satan stated ALL THESE Kingdoms are mine to do as I so please with, thus he offered them to Jesus, if he would only worship him. So, New York city is a CROWN, L.A. is a CROWN, London is a CROWN, Brazil is a CROWN etc. etc. etc. the whole world. But only the Mediterranean Sea Region are being spoken of by God and only 7 Powers (Satan Rules over) are being shown as DOMINATING ANIMALS who ruled over Israel AND the Mediterranean Sea Region. Can we look back in history to see who they were?

Of course we can, Egypt ruled over the Mediterranean Sea Region (MSR) and Israel were enslaved in Egypt, Assyria ruled the MSR and toted the Northern Tribes off, Babylon ruled over the MSR and toted Israel off to Babylon for 70 years. Persia ruled over the MSR and Israel, Greece ruled over the MSR and Israel and Antiochus tried to wipe out all the Israelis who refuse to stop worshiping God. Rome ruled over the whole MSR and Israel and destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple while toting the Jews off as slaves etc. etc. The COMING Anti-Christ will conquer Israel and the whole MSR, at the 1260 middle of the week DOTL event. Daniel 12:6-7 says so. So, Yes Rev. 12, 13 and 17 shows 7 Heads and thus we understand who the 5 who had fallen were, Dan. 2, nor 7 shows us that there were 7, the only show from Babylon on.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Ha! If the Holy Spirit isn't revealing and leading to the truth then the children do not know the truth. 

On 3/26/2023 at 4:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

Well, YES, that is the point, we need the holy spirit to lead us unto truths, the Pharisees couldn't see Jesus the Suffering Servant because they had tunnel vision, they WANTED the Conquering King, thus they could not dig out God's truths, but God did not say a man named Yeshua will be born at 8:00 AM in Bethlehem, and he will be your Messiah did he? That is why they missed it, God is vague on purpose, where Satan knows not His plans also, but we as led by the Spirit can  know His plans, as did the old man who saw Jesus as a new born baby and new it was his Messiah, but the Pharisees had no idea, of course. Also, not everyone us called unto the same thing, some are hands, some feet etc. but a lot of people try to figure out Prophecy, but do not take into account their calling may be in helping the poor, are helping youth, or any number of things, where I may not be an answer, but I know my calling, when God gives you a vision in like 1986 and tells you with a BOOMING voice from heaven that "The Man of Sin is Here" then you know you calling, as a Preacher first, with a bent towards Prophecy. I knew Jimmy Swaggart was going to fall 2 weeks before he fell, God showed my another vision of him  preaching o an empty Auditorium. He did that to let me know the first vision  would also come true one day, but much later on. The holy spirit has his own timing, and choses who he will to reveal unto, Daniel could not be told what the 1260, 1290 and 1335 were, but we can be told, if we allow Him to reveal these things, if we go into pray already knowing the answers, believe me, we will get no new answers. Everyone is not called to Prophecy, so those not called can't expect to get answers, I am not going to try to be something God has not called me to be.

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

The most dominating force in the Mediterranean was Islam. Rome was longer lived but far less savage and destructive. 

Islam has NEVER RULED over Israel, do you not understand this? Israel is not the land sir. Israel from 70 AD to 1948 was Dead Men's Bones, meaning they were not an earthly entity they were DEAD, then God brings those bones back to life as Ezekiel 37s Valley of Dry Bones Prophecy shows us, so what does Islam have to do with Dominating or Ruling over Israel? Nothing at all !! You are missing that the bible is about Israel, not a landmass, but the people. Islam has never ruled over Israel sir.

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Wow. I doubt that very much.

On 3/26/2023 at 4:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

Have no doubts, one mentions 5 Beasts (counting the A.C.) the other mentions 7 Beasts. Its rather obvious tbh.

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

That was the point. You missed it. 

On 3/26/2023 at 4:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

No, you missed it. You assume (I guess) because its called the Iron Beast by Gid that it has to mean Assyria, it doesn't, God is speaking about the Hardest, most Cruel Kingdom between the four beasts being spoken about. Assyria was a kingdom before Babylon, so his could Babylon the first Beast/Gold if Assyria was a part of this discussion? The Iron Beast is Rome, but that means the coming Anti-Christ can't be Muslim, so....... BUT ALAS, Dan. 11:37 tells us the A.C. will be an atheist anyway. Who does not take into account any woman's opinion. 

Dan. 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished(until the 70th week ends): for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor[regard] the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

So, this man is an Atheist, not a Muslim. If his fathers(a Turkish family) are Muslim then he will no be a Muslim, nor will he serve ANY GOD, he will magnify himself as god !! The RED REGARDS is how it should read, but three regards would have been monotonous, the writer felt it should be a known understanding since RAGARD is used twice in the verse. Basically, this means he will not take advice from woman, or serve the gods they serve, either way, it does not mean he is a homosexual.

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

No they did not. Babylon and Medo-Persia are Mesopotamian, not Mediterranean. Even Greece ruled from Babylon, it's also where Alexander died.

Again, you miss the point, every square inch of the Mediterranean Sea Region  who were being DOMINATED, where the Beasts came from is not relevant, except the Last Beast will have the exact same Landmass as the Fourth Beast when the conquer the MSR. If China had conquered Israel as lets say the 2nd Beast instead of Persia, all that matters is Israel and the MSR were in bondage to a China Beast. No one cares about the Landmass of the taskmasters, that is not even relevant tbh. 

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

I would say Assyria and Islam were far more ruthless and cruel than Rome. Shorter lived, but more vicious.

Assyria can not be one of the Four Beast, they came before the First Beast Babylon. Islam has never BEASTED OVER Israel. Israel are not "The Land" they are "The People". 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

This is just assumption. The mind can try to draw parallels as it sees fit. The narrative in Daniel 11 follows the Diadochi and the Seleucid dynasty. Daniel 11:29-31 even shows the interaction between Rome and AE IV then follows AE IV and his brutality against the Jews. Dan 11 does not follow Rome and in fact, except for the 'ships of the west', Rome is not even hinted at. There is no getting around this. 

No, its not an Assumption, its a fact, Rome was the Fourth Beast the 10 (10 = COMPLETION, see the 10 Brides) arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head, and ANOTHER (Anti-Christ/Little Horn) arises AMONGST the 10, meaning these 10 COMPLETELY Reunite the European Base and the Anti-Christ/Little Horn is born AMIDST THEM, or in the E.U. In order to get the false Islamic Anti-Christ Joel Richardson has to disregard all of these factual points. The Assyrian simple means he will have Assyrian blood, but Assyria covered Iraq and Turkey mostly, with a smidge of Syria, he does not arise from any of these nations, nor can he, he has to be born in the E.U. or the 10 horns that arise from the Fourth Beasts Head. He has to be born in Greece, Daniel 8:9 MANDATES this, he conquers TOWARDS the East (Seleucus or Turkey) TOWARDS the South (Ptolemy or Egypt) and TOWARDS Israel. Thus he can only conquer FROM the Northwest Corridor of this simple four way directional box God gave us, thus he has to conquer from Greece, or be born in Greece just like his archetype Antiochus was. Greece is in the E.U. thus he has Assyrian blood, but is born in Greece, which qualifies him to be the E.U. President or "King". This explains why God gave us such a DETAILED RUNDOWN of every Greek king which ends with the Archetype Antiochus in verses 21-34 AND the Anti-Christ in verses 36-45. 

No one says Dan. 11 follows Rome, we get that from Dan. 7 and Dan. 8, we see BOTH are called the Little Horn, ever think that through? Dan 8 MANDATES he has to be born in Greece, Dan 7 MANDATES he has to come to power amongst the 10 that arise from the Fourth Beasts Head, so, because you understand Dan. 11 and 8 pretty much, you fail to be able to see the Rome angle also, you discard it, but Greece is in the E.U. and the power base was the same as Old Rome. The Maps show this clearly. 

Rome in 117 AD

The European Union plus the Nations the will conquer as shown in Daniel 11:40-43.

Now for a VISUAL of the Four Generals 

So, as Dan. 8:9 says that the Anti-Christ conquers FROM Greece.

Dan. 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn(A.C.), which waxed exceeding great, toward the south,(Egypt) and toward the east,(Turkey) and toward the pleasant land(Israel).

The "Little Horn" of Dan. 7 is the same person shown here, he arises out of BOTH Kingdoms at once, because in the end times God knew that Greece would be a part of E.U. that is why we are shown the Little Horn in both Dan. 7 and Dan. 8. He conquers towards the south (Egypt) East (Turkey) and Israel , so look at the map above, that only leaves him being able to conquer from the Cassander/Greece area of the map, God have us this simple Four Way Directional box for a reason, so w can understand he comes out of Greece in the end times. NOW.......Dan. 11 makes sense, now we can understand why we are given the rundown of every Greek king in Dan. 11. What we can't do is take the Assyrian blood angle and MANDATE that he is a Syrian Muslim. Blood lines travel, he is a Turk whose family migrates to Greece, thus this man also fulfills Daniel 8:9 AND Dan. 7:7-8. 

So, I agree totally, Dan. 11 is all about the Greek Kings, I never stated anything differently, but the last Greek King (Anti-Christ) is born in the European Union (10).

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

This speaks to infiltration of culture on a global scale, not an organization. 

No, the 7 Beast Heads were all finite, they only conquered the MSR and nothing else. North and South America will be burned up.(1/3)

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Don't appeal to authority or time. No one cares how long you have been at this. You may be wrong for 38 years.

Since I am the one debating the points I will debate the points in the manner I so please. When a man comes to lay carpet for you do you say, "Well, you may have been doing a bad job for 25 years, lol, I think not, really a bad argument tbh.

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Now an appeal to the consensus? Maybe I should go back and root out the other fallacies presented as support for your position.

Yes, because the consensus have the Holy Spirit as the body of Christ right? When you get a HUGE CONSENSUS on anything that means it a simple problem that nigh every can solve. Even those still on milk.

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes, but puts him in the middle of the east and west, possibly the North.  But this all relates to the Kingdoms of the Diadochi. The North would be Asia Minor, not Greece, which is the west. 

No, there were only really three strong parts of the Kingdom, Seleucus, Ptolemy, and Cassander. He also has to be born in the E.U. and only Greece is in the E.U. This is why not getting Dan. 7 correctly will always leave one off-tracked my brother.

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Maybe, I don't see it.

On 3/26/2023 at 4:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 17:16 says the Harlot (ALL False Religions of all time) will be killed off by the 10 kings (E.U.) This means Islam as well as any religion in THAT REGION (the E.U. and MSR). He doesn't rule the whole world. 

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

A brutal accusation, then you bless? Wow.

It is not a brutal accusation, why is it people can not understand Satan is a LIAR and never STOPS LYING unto us? Of course the Church hears his voice, why would we have 100s of interpretations of who the Harlot is, who the 144,000 are, who the Beasts are, who Babylon is, God has ONE TRUTH, Satan has many truths. 

When Satan in locked in the Bottomless Pit for 1000 years guess what happens, me stop Willfully Sinning, they will still have sin nature during Jesus' 1000 year reign, but the tempter and liar is not there to whisper corruption unto them at that time. Why did Jesus have to rebuke Peter with Get the behind me Satan? 

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

Genesis 3:4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.

Matthew 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”

Of course Satan still whispers to us every day, he never stops lying. That doesn't mean we are not Saved and Sanctified in Christ Jesus, it just means we have to understand, everything we hear is not of God, lol, Satan was trying to deceive me in the 80s with the Herbert W. Armstrong cult stuff, that made me learn I had to wait upon the Lord's truths, I couldn't force things, and about 7 or 8 years ago via a prayer, I found out why God can not reveal all of His truths unto us, especially on Prophecy where its nit an easy to understand portion of the bible. I was like Lord, why are there 100s of different interpretations when there is only ONE TRUTH, and in these last days you promised full revelation unto us, and the Holy Spirit was like "Ron, you guys already know it all" so I understood, a ROADBLOCK by put forth another human being we respect can hamper us from getting God's truth, how many people repeat that the 144,000 are Super Preaches during the 70th week? It is NOWHERE to be found ANYWHERE in the bible,  but Satan whispered that to someone years ago, now Satan's "FALSE NOTION " has become a "fast fact" which blocks us from understand that like The Woman in Rev. 12, the 144,000 is simply a CODE telling us that this is ALL Israel who repent and that these are those who Flee Judea just before God's Wrath falls in Rev. 8. So, this truth got ROASBLOCK by a falsehood that originally came from Satan. That doesn't mean he had to whisper that to everyone, it just means his original lie became a fast fact. But it is still a lie of Satan brother. Joel Richardson created the Anti-Christ us a Muslim untruth very popular, but its not true, that came from him, not you, but he is hearing from Satan, that doesn't mean he will go to hell, or that he us not of God, we all hear from Satan or his Demons daily, thus we SIN and need Jesus blood atonement, when Satan gets locked up there will be no Willful Sin.

Of course Satan is a liar and continues to try to trip us up, just like he tripped up Peter. It should be an afterthought that this goes on 24/7/365, else why would we have so many different interpretations of all of these things? The biggest problem, IMHO, is way too many people are not called unto Prophecy but are not willing to listen to those of us who are called unto Prophecy. God is not going to give His understandings unto people not called by Him, He has His own callings, and some are called to Prophesy, some to preaching, some to help the needy, etc. etc. A football team doesn't need 11 QB's or 11 Running Backs.

If I hear another mans interpretation, like say Herbert W. Armstrong, and I buy into it, then not only did Satan  deceive Armstrong, but trough that man he also managed to deceive me and place a ROADBLOCK unto God's truth in  my way. I think the reason so many people go down wring paths is they really do not understand Satan is working really, really hard to devour us at every turn, Paul understood that. Of course Saran is trying to trick us every day, and yes he succeeds, that why the Church is all over the place on Prophecy, he even succeeds at times on just the Gospel portion, that is why we get the David Koresh's, the Jim Jones' and Joseph Smiths, and why we get the SDA, the Mormons, and all the other way out there cults.

When we refuse to acknowledge Satan is trying to sift us, we leave a weak point in our armor. Of course he is trying to lie, and sometimes through MEN WE RESPECT, they can have one false notion, and 350 true notions, if we heed that one false notion we still received a false notion. Acting like Satan is not trying to deceive us, and tat he never succeeds leaves me to wonder how people fiend him off. Its hard to overcome something you will not admit is going on. If I did not believe Tampa Bay and Miami were playing a baseball game at 7:00 PM on a Thursday night, it would be hard for a friend to get me to go to the game. 

So, if the Anti-Christ is not a Muslim (he will not be) then who originally misrepresented the truth? Joel Richardson, no, it would be Satan, of course, he's the Father of lies, and he can appear as an Angel of Light, of course he can and does deceive men all of the time, BUT his most subtle way is by getting us to listen to other men whom we respect. We all have weaknesses, he will exploit any weakness possible. 

God Bless. 

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No one says Dan. 11 follows Rome, we get that from Dan. 7 and Dan. 8, we see BOTH are called the Little Horn, ever think that through? Dan 8 MANDATES he has to be born in Greece, Dan 7 MANDATES he has to come to power amongst the 10 that arise from the Fourth Beasts Head, so, because you understand Dan. 11 and 8 pretty much, you fail to be able to see the Rome angle also, you discard it, but Greece is in the E.U. and the power base was the same as Old Rome.

No.

Dan 8

Thus the goat became very great, but at the height of his power, his large horn was broken off, and four prominent horns came up in its place, pointing toward the four winds of heaven.

9From one of these horns a little horn emerged

Only from the Diadochi does the little horn emerge. It's not said from which one here.

Dan 8

The four horns that replaced the broken one represent four kingdoms that will rise from that nation, but will not have the same power.

23In the latter part of their reign, when the rebellion has reached its full measure, an insolent king, skilled in intrigue, will come to the throne.

 

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

No.

Dan 8

Thus the goat became very great, but at the height of his power, his large horn was broken off, and four prominent horns came up in its place, pointing toward the four winds of heaven.

9From one of these horns a little horn emerged

Only from the Diadochi does the little horn emerge. It's not said from which one here.

Dan 8

The four horns that replaced the broken one represent four kingdoms that will rise from that nation, but will not have the same power.

23In the latter part of their reign, when the rebellion has reached its full measure, an insolent king, skilled in intrigue, will come to the throne.

What part of he arises out of BOTH Kingdoms do you not grasp brother? Why do you think he is called the Little Horn in both Daniel 7 and 8 ? And yes, we are told what part of the Diadochi he comes from in Dan. 8:9

Are you denying what I showed via Dan. 8:9 or just ignoring the map? He conquers in certain DIRECTIONS, towards the East and South, meaning he can only come from the Northwest. Thus he can't be from Seleucus/Turkey or Ptolemy/Egypt, he is from Cassander/Greece and Greece is in the E.U. thus the Little Horn can arise from Dan. 7 and Dan. 8.

The Assyrain  thus has to be born in Greece and Arise to power in the E.U. So, he is a Turk, born in Greece and he thus is a E.U. Citizen. Joel Richardson has been deceived. 

 

[Diaste]

On 4/3/2023 at 1:07 PM, Revelation Man said:

What part of he arises out of BOTH Kingdoms do you not grasp brother? Why do you think he is called the Little Horn in both Daniel 7 and 8 ? And yes, we are told what part of the Diadochi he comes from in Dan. 8:9

Well...

"From one of these horns a little horn emerged"

'One' here is a primary cardinal number. It's not two, it's ONE. That one is Seleucid, in my estimation, from what the rest of the writings of Daniel has to say about this guy.

 

On 4/3/2023 at 1:07 PM, Revelation Man said:

Are you denying what I showed via Dan. 8:9 or just ignoring the map? He conquers in certain DIRECTIONS, towards the East and South, meaning he can only come from the Northwest. Thus he can't be from Seleucus/Turkey or Ptolemy/Egypt, he is from Cassander/Greece and Greece is in the E.U. thus the Little Horn can arise from Dan. 7 and Dan. 8.

"and grew extensively toward the south and the east and toward the Beautiful Land." 

I have aways thought this is three cardinal directions; South, East and West. What you contend doesn't fit, imo. If Greece is the location where the beast rises then Dan 8:9 would have to mean 'toward the south, the east and the east', or 'toward the south, the east, and the south' since the 'beautiful land', Israel,  would be east and south of Greece.

Much simpler is if the little horn is in Mesopotamia where the south is Egypt, the east is Iran, etc., and the beautiful land is west. And I only say 'south' since Daniel writes 'king of the south'. Greece isn't mentioned that I know of in Daniel 11. It's the KOTN and KOTS. I suspect the willful king is right in the middle, the Seleucid Empire, from which arose Antiochus IV Epiphanes, the only perpetrator of the shadow of the coming end of the age A of D. A shadow and type we see clearly written in Dan 11:30-31. 

The A of D perp is also recorded in the Jewish Encyclopedia; and he is Seleucid, Syrian, and right in the middle of south, east and west.

 

On 4/3/2023 at 1:07 PM, Revelation Man said:

The Assyrain  thus has to be born in Greece and Arise to power in the E.U. So, he is a Turk, born in Greece and he thus is a E.U. Citizen. Joel Richardson has been deceived. 

 

No, the Assyrian does not have to be born in Greece. 

No, he does not have to come to power in the EU. Satan grants him power through healing the head wound.

No, he does not have be a Turk, he has to be 'the Assyrian'.

I know who Joel Richardson is, I have never read his books. In fact I have a tough time even listening to him for more than short intervals.