The 6th Seal

[farouk]

4 hours ago, FJK said:

From Clarke's commentary on Joel 2:31: 

"Before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come - In the taking and sacking of Jerusalem, and burning of the temple, by the Romans, under Titus, the son of Vespasian. This was, perhaps, the greatest and most terrible day of God’s vengeance ever shown to the world, or that ever will be shown, till the great day of the general judgment. For a full view of this subject, I wish to refer the reader to the notes on Matthew 24."

 

It's interesting that in Acts 2 also there seems to be reference to Joel.

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Once again, in another reply above, you use BEFORE, and refuse to admit it means in the PRESENCE of or in the face of, even though I proved it 100 percent. And what did you do? Try to bring up Greek texts in the New Testament, which has nothing to do with the Old Testament Hebrew.  The Two-witnesses will be here on earth when the Day of the Lords 42 month is here, they pray down all of the Plagues. 

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:" Acts 2:20 KJV

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come." Joel 2:31 KJV

I would STILL have to STRONGLY DISAGEE,

as do both Hebrew and Greek, who agree with each other, as far as I have been able to find.  

Although  'Presence or in the face of'   are ways in which it is translated other places, 

neither of them are used as such, in this verse.  At least NOT THAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FIND.  

Where did you find those to be TRUE of this verse??

Lexicon
Joel 2:31
The sun
shemesh  (sheh'-mesh)
the sun; by implication, the east; figuratively, a ray, i.e. (arch.) a notched battlement -- + east side(-ward), sun (rising), + west(-ward), window.

shall be turned
haphak  (haw-fak')
to turn about or over; by implication, to change, overturn, return, pervert

into darkness
choshek  (kho-shek')
the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively, misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness -- dark(-ness), night, obscurity.

and the moon
yareach  (yaw-ray'-akh)
the moon -- moon. Yrechow.

into blood
dam  (dawm)
blood (as that which when shed causes death) of man or an animal; by analogy, the juice of the grape; figuratively (especially in the plural) bloodshed (i.e. drops of blood)

before
paniym  (paw-neem')
the face (as the part that turns); used in a great variety of applications (literally and figuratively); also (with prepositional prefix) as a preposition (before, etc.)

the great
gadowl  (gaw-dole')
great (in any sense); hence, older; also insolent
and the terrible
yare'  (yaw-ray')
to fear; morally, to revere; caus. to frighten
day
yowm  (yome)
a day (as the warm hours),
of the LORD
Yhovah  (yeh-ho-vaw')
(the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God -- Jehovah, the Lord.
come
bow'  (bo)
to go or come (in a wide variety of applications)


Parallel Verses
New American Standard Bible
"The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.

King James Bible
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the great and awe-inspiring Day of the LORD comes.

International Standard Version
The sun will be given over to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the coming of the great and terrifying Day of the LORD.

NET Bible
The sunlight will be turned to darkness and the moon to the color of blood, before the day of the LORD comes--that great and terrible day!

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The sun will become dark, and the moon will become as red as blood before the terrifying day of the LORD comes."

King James 2000 Bible
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD comes.

 

before
paniym  (paw-neem')
the face (as the part that turns); used in a great variety of applications (literally and figuratively); also (with prepositional prefix) as a preposition (before, etc.)

 4250. prin 
Strong's Concordance
prin: before
Original Word: πρίν
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: prin
Phonetic Spelling: (prin)
Definition: before
Usage: formerly, before.

 

KJV Lexicon

ο  definite article - nominative singular masculine
ho  ho:  the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.

ηλιος  noun - nominative singular masculine
helios  hay'-lee-os:  the sun; by implication, light -- + east, sun.

μεταστραφησεται  verb - second future passive indicative - third person singular
metastrepho  met-as-tref'-o:  to turn across, i.e. transmute or (figuratively) corrupt -- pervert, turn.

εις  preposition
eis  ice:  to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial phrases

σκοτος  noun - accusative singular neuter
skotos  skot'-os:  shadiness, i.e. obscurity -- darkness.

και  conjunction
kai  kahee:  and, also, even, so then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words

η  definite article - nominative singular feminine
ho  ho:  the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.

σεληνη  noun - nominative singular feminine
selene  sel-ay'-nay:  the moon -- moon.

εις  preposition
eis  ice:  to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial phrases

αιμα  noun - accusative singular neuter
haima  hah'-ee-mah:  blood, literally (of men or animals), figuratively (the juice of grapes) or specially (the atoning blood of Christ); by implication, bloodshed, also kindred -- blood.

πριν  adverb
prin  prin:  prior, sooner -- before (that), ere.

η  particle
e  ay:  disjunctive, or; comparative, than -- and, but (either), (n-)either, except it be, (n-)or (else), rather, save, than, that, what, yea.

ελθειν  verb - second aorist active middle or passive deponent
erchomai  er'-khom-ahee:  accompany, appear, bring, come, enter, fall out, go, grow, light, next, pass, resort, be set.

την  definite article - accusative singular feminine
ho  ho:  the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.

ημεραν  noun - accusative singular feminine
hemera  hay-mer'-ah:  age, + alway, (mid-)day (by day, (-ly), + for ever, judgment, (day) time, while, years.

κυριου  noun - genitive singular masculine
kurios  koo'-ree-os:  supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title) -- God, Lord, master, Sir.
την  definite article - accusative singular feminine
ho  ho:  the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.
μεγαλην  adjective - accusative singular feminine
megas  meg'-as:  big (literally or figuratively, in a very wide application) -- (+ fear) exceedingly, great(-est), high, large, loud, mighty, + (be) sore (afraid), strong, to years.
και  conjunction
kai  kahee:  and, also, even, so then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words
επιφανη  adjective - accusative singular feminine
epiphanes  ep-if-an-ace':  conspicuous, i.e. (figuratively) memorable -- notable.


Parallel Verses
New American Standard Bible
'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.

King James Bible
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the great and remarkable Day of the Lord comes.

International Standard Version
The sun will become dark, and the moon turn to blood, before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.

NET Bible
The sun will be changed to darkness and the moon to blood before the great and glorious day of the Lord comes.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood until the great and awesome day of THE LORD JEHOVAH will come.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The sun will become dark, and the moon will become as red as blood before the terrifying day of the Lord comes.

King James 2000 Bible
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord comes:

 

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:" Acts 2:20 KJV

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come." Joel 2:31 KJV

I would STILL have to STRONGLY DISAGEE,

as do both Hebrew and Greek, who agree with each other, as far as I have been able to find.  

Although  'Presence or in the face of'   are ways in which it is translated other places, 

IN will go back to the other question/reply, but you do realize you are making a fatal mistake here by not understanding that in Act's 2:20 they are simply quoting Joel 2:31 so it changes nothing in reality. All one has to do sister is look at the number of events that comes to pass, thus they understand the Day of the Lord is ONE DAY in which God's Wrath starts. They wrote different than we do now, we have to study it via how they wrote. For instance, in Zech. 13:1-9 we get an end time understanding of the Jews repenting 2500 years after the prophecy, but even before Jesus has died. we also get two verses that tie Jesus death into the end time prophecy, which gives the prophecy 100 times more cred (to doubting men). That is how God gives us prophecy, sometimes it jumps around. But that confuses people who are not prophecy wonks like me (it confused me for 30 years tbh). This is like my fav. chapter in the bible, its so revealing. But because of two verses, half the people think this had to come to pass during Jesus' lifetime, when they should know Israel has not yet repented, but all they can see is those two verses. I will tell why they are there at the end.

Demonstration of Prophetic Utterings

Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. (Not when Jesus dies, but when Israel REPENTS)

2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land(Current Judaism Rabbis).

3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. (Their own families turn against their untruths about Jesus)

4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive 5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.(Most will admit they were wrong, they will stop pretending to be of God.)

 

{{{ Here is where we go from the END TIME REPENTANCE of Israel, to Jesus being being killed and his sheep being scattered, BUT, the Prophecy is not about Jesus' time, the Prophet put into the prose he was writing HOW the end time Fountain the cleanses came into effect, by tagging Jesus into the end time conversation, he places both events into one event, which makes the prophecy 100 times more effective, it not only shows Israel repenting 2500 years before the repented, but it shows a picture of Jesus an d we know Jesus' blood is how Israel is cleansed. That amps up the Prophetic Uttering by Zechariah 10 times. Yet some people thinks this happened 2000 years ago because of verses 6 & 7. }}}

6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. (3.5-5 million Jews repent at the end time)

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

---------------

The reason I show the above is Prophecy is much more complex than people think, else the Pharisees would have seen the Suffering Servant had to come before the Conquering King, but they wanted to see the conquering king, thus their own eyes tricked them. 

The Sun and Moon goes dark in Trumpet #4, that can not happen unto the fires burn the 1/3 of the trees and all the grasses, and that comes just before the Asteroid Impact in Trump #2. Trumps 1 and 2 begin the Day of the Lord so the Sun and Moon can't go dark before the Day of the Lord comes sister, the go dark at the time of the DOTL. The Two-witnesses do indeed show up just before the DOTL starts at the 1335. But there is no way the Fire that causes the smoke which is what dims or filters the light out by 1/3, can come after the Sun and Moon goes dim because the Fires are what causes them to go dim. It can not be a factual happening, in that manner. The bible was translated by fallible men. 

 

The original Hebrew simply means at the time of the DOTL the Sun and Moon will go dark. 

 

I will answer the other reply later, my mom is bedridden so I have to check in on her every few hours. God Bless

 

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

but you do realize you are making a fatal mistake here by not understanding that in Act's 2:20 they are simply quoting Joel 2:31 so it changes nothing in reality.

It LOOKS LIKE there was a lot of information following this PART that I just won't ever get to read.

How sad.  

[Biblican]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How about just using GODS WORDS. 

Put all those verses in the order that tells the story you want to tell.  That will help work out all the conflicts. 

I would do it, but since I don't understand the thought process, I wouldn't be able to correct anything and we would have to go back and forth with what I got wrong, so if you just do that from the get go, we could save alot of time

I would really love to see that, if you have the time.  Thank God for copy paste, right?

I did an expository study of Revelation that took six years. One thing we have to understand is that the majority of the book is comprised of visions which are like dreams and they have to be interpreted as such. In other words, you can't interpret it like an ordinary book, it has to be revealed. I can only show you how it was revealed to me. We also need to understand that some of the visions are progressive and cover long periods of time, while others are details that are happening as the other visions are unfolding. For example when John is shown the beast rising out of the sea, this is a process that evolves over many years before the Empire has full control. It all just does not happen within a three year or seven year period. 

The Book was originally written to encourage the persecuted church. That is the significance of Chapter six. God is assuring His martyrs that they will be vindicated.

The first seven chapters deal with the church which is the preparation for the rest of the visions.  Chapter eight begins the warning period of the trumpets and is not the tribulation as many have been taught. Trumpets are  used in scripture to call religious assemblies and before a war. In Revelation's context it is war. The symbolism is telling us that this is a time of preparation and warning. The plagues are released in this chapter and they match the ones in chapter 16. They evolve over a long period of time. During this time John, who represents the church is seen being commissioned to preach the gospel in chapter ten. In eleven which may begin the first three years of the trib there is evangelism in Israel which is stopped just as the beast comes into full power and the witnesses are silenced. While there may be two literal witnesses, they are candlesticks which means they have to be or represent churches. There is no other application for the word candlestick in Revelation. It means church. Their death shows the martyrdom of God's people, but symbolically it is showing us that the church can no longer evangelize and that is when the rapture happens. 

The witnesses are called up, and are possibly ministering in the first three years of the trib and the beast is in full control in the second half and the actual blood bath of that time is shown to us in the last part of chapter fourteen which is the tribulation the attack on Israel. After that begins the time of wrath before Jesus returns. This is the period of the bowls.  So basically to break it down for you -

Chapters 1-7 The introductory chapters that deal with preparing the church.

Chapters 8- 11 - the Warning period of the Trumpets, and the woes which have to do with physical and spiritual warfare, "The Beginning of Sorrows."

Chapter 12 -  is what I call a bridge chapter. It signifies that there is going to be a change in the narrative and gives a condensed history of the spiritual principles behind the conflict. It connects us to -

Chapter 13 which is a description of the Beast empire and the antichrist as they are coming into power at this time.

Chapter fourteen shows us the remnant that has been raptured in heaven just before the tribulation at the end of that chapter. 

Chapter 15, is a picture of the overcoming church that has gone through the tribulation and is seen victorious in heaven. If you take the two groups in chapter seven and transport them in your mind to chapters 14 and 15, we see the same two groups. One has been sealed to be protected from it the others go through it.

Chapter 16 begins the bowl judgments, the time of wrath when the church is no longer on earth just before the Lord returns.

Chapters 17 and 18 -  details of this period and Babylon's fall.

Chapter 19 - 22 Jesus returns, He reigns for 1000 years and then God wraps everything up.

There, I have just condensed a three hundred page book in a few paragraphs it's the best I can do.

 

[Revelation Man]

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

WHAT??  And exactly what is it you see taking place in the 7th?  You know, when the trumps are GIVEN. 
 

So, your reply was to this point below, I copy & Pasted my original reply, I will bold it, that way I can answer the question properly.

"""Yes, the 6th Seal foretells of the coming Trump Judgments, which bring God's Wrath, but they are not Judgments. They are Prophetic Utterances just like Joel 2:31, they just happen mere days before the Trumpet Judgments start"". 

So, I point out that the Seals are a Scroll that is Sealed up, people 2000 years ago understood this concept, today people do not grasp it because we do not send Sealed Messages like they did 2000 years ago. Today we send letters with stick-um on them in some form, but people can steam them, read the contents, and return the letters. In olden days if a King sent a message to one of his Generals with details, he could not risk that message being read by anyone but the General, so they had "Signet Seals" which means a signature (unique) ring that they pressed against hot wax and if the seal was broken then the message had been compromised, and the messenger would be killed. Since mistakes could happen with one seal, they usually placed three signet seals on the message, no one could read that message until all three Signet Seals had been opened. 

Signet Ring and Seal

Chevalier Ring: the Noble Seal that looks to eternity

So, why did Jesus use this concept of a Sealed Scroll? He knew his disciple John and the people the Church sought to convert all understood this concept, today we can understand it, if we quit listening to men who tell us the Seals are Judgments and understand its really a Sealed up Scroll of Judgments. Jesus thus placed 7 Seals in this Scroll to show that in these Judgments are all of  God's Divine Judgments in that 7 = Divine Completion. But they knew 100 percent that the Scroll's Judgments would not be brought forth until all 7 Seals had been taken off. Somehow, modern man does not understand this. So, now lets look at a Sealed Scroll with 7 Signet Wax Seals on  it.

The Wax Signet Seal is PRESSED against the hot wax over those strings or rope or leather (whatever they are) and thus they will mold themselves around the string/rope, and that rope can not be taken off until the Seal is broken apart. And each had unique signet seals, thus you could not read and just replace a wax seal, each we designed especially fir one king. Thus no one is reading that message until the 7th Seal is broken. Kings used 3 seals, if all three were broken the messenger might as well not show up with the message, if it was real important, he would be killed. 

So, Rev. 4 & 5 tells us the Lamb, Jesus was Worthy to open the Seals. Then in Rev. 6 we see Jesus opening the Seals, but why is the 7th Seal opened over in Rev. 8 AFTER the 144,000 (Jews who repent and flee Judea who are really 3.5-5 million Jews) flee Judea unto the Petra/Bozrah area, then and only then can God's Wrath fall, read Rev. 18:4 come out of her (Babylon/World) my people, lest you partake in her sins AND in her plagues. That is God telling Israel to flee Judea right after Satan in cast out as shown in Revelation 18:2 where it says Babylon (Whole World) has become the HABITATION of devils. So, the reason the 7th Seal is opened over in Rev. 8 is that the 7 Trumps (remember 7 = Divine Completion, not 21) make ups or contains all of God's complete Judgments. Rev. 7 makes it very clear why the Four Winds (Judgments) are being held up, so that Israel can repent, thus the 144,000 need to be Sealed and that number simply means ALL Israel who repents need to be sealed up and then protected from these coming Judgments, that is why the Angels are ordered to hold up the judgments (winds) which HARMS the Trees, Seas and the Earth. Well, what harms the Trees, Seas and the Earth? The Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments !! Eureka !! It all ties together. 

Via  the 7th Seal the Scroll of Judgments are opened up. Thus as with the First Six Seals we here no "COME AND SEE" because there is no more need for a vision of what is coming, judgment is now at hand, the process has ben started, the Trumpets are being prepared to sound. The silence reflects Heavens somber reality, God repented when He flooded the world, so it grieved God, well billions of human being are about to be judged and killed, thus the silence reflects the heavens somberness. Judgment is now at hand.

Since the Judgments do not come until the 7 Trumps, when Jesus opens each Seal he is FORETELLING what the 7 Trumps will bring. Seals 1-5 is Jesus foretelling us what the 42 month rule of the coming Ant-Christ will bring forth. 1.)He Conquers 2.) Brings War 3.) Which bring Famine 4.) His rule brings Death/Sickness and the Grave/Hades 5.) He Martyrs the 70th week Saints. Seal #6 is Jesus FORETELLING of God's soon to come Wrath. He is FORETELLING how men will be in fear of tat Wrath via Seal #6. God is foretelling what those saints who get killed during the 7oth week are thinking, even before they die !! Gd can FORETELL the future, why does Jesus Prophesying here not register? The Scroll CAN NOT BE READ from until all 7 Seals are taken off.

You, like many have 21 Judgments (Smile I did for 30 years) but its only 7 tat is why Rev.10 says when the 7 Thunders (Trumps) come to pass time will be no more. The 7 Trumps are simple, they mean ALL of God's Wrath/Judgment.

Trumps 1, 2, 3 and 4 all come forth from on e Asteroid Impact as seen in Rev. 8. Then Rev. 8:13 tells us the Three Trumps yet to sound will bring Three Woes. Thus we see Woes 1 & 2 in Rev. 9 and Woe #3 in Rev. 16, the Third Woe is simply all 7 Vials, which emits from the 7th Trump.

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I don't see anything in anything above that speaks to the coming TRUMP JUDGMENTS.  I don't see the word TRUMP at all.  

Seal Six is the Rev. 8 Trumps coming to pass, the Asteroid Impact creates FIRES which lead us to the Sun & Moon going dark.

Seals 1-5 are the Anti-Christ being allowed to go forth, which is a Judgment from God, He gives us the King we desire, just like God chose David but Israel chose Saul. 

The 7th Seal in Rev. 8 brings the DOTL which lasts fir 1260 days. The exact same amount of time that Satan chases Israel/Woman. The same amount of time that the Beast rules. Everything in prophecy is centered around the Greatest Ever Troubles, which lasts for 1260 days.

God is saying all this, you are just not interpreting it correctly. The Pharisees saw Isaiah 53 like we do, they just refused to believe the Messiah would be a Suffering Servant. They so wanted a Conquering King thus that was all they could see.

[Revelation Man]

13 hours ago, Biblican said:

I did an expository study of Revelation that took six years. One thing we have to understand is that the majority of the book is comprised of visions which are like dreams and they have to be interpreted as such. In other words, you can't interpret it like an ordinary book, it has to be revealed. I can only show you how it was revealed to me. We also need to understand that some of the visions are progressive and cover long periods of time, while others are details that are happening as the other visions are unfolding. For example when John is shown the beast rising out of the sea, this is a process that evolves over many years before the Empire has full control. It all just does not happen within a three year or seven year period. 

The Book was originally written to encourage the persecuted church. That is the significance of Chapter six. God is assuring His martyrs that they will be vindicated.

The first seven chapters deal with the church which is the preparation for the rest of the visions.  Chapter eight begins the warning period of the trumpets and is not the tribulation as many have been taught. Trumpets are  used in scripture to call religious assemblies and before a war. In Revelation's context it is war. The symbolism is telling us that this is a time of preparation and warning. The plagues are released in this chapter and they match the ones in chapter 16. They evolve over a long period of time. During this time John, who represents the church is seen being commissioned to preach the gospel in chapter ten. In eleven which may begin the first three years of the trib there is evangelism in Israel which is stopped just as the beast comes into full power and the witnesses are silenced. While there may be two literal witnesses, they are candlesticks which means they have to be or represent churches. There is no other application for the word candlestick in Revelation. It means church. Their death shows the martyrdom of God's people, but symbolically it is showing us that the church can no longer evangelize and that is when the rapture happens. 

The witnesses are called up, and are possibly ministering in the first three years of the trib and the beast is in full control in the second half and the actual blood bath of that time is shown to us in the last part of chapter fourteen which is the tribulation the attack on Israel. After that begins the time of wrath before Jesus returns. This is the period of the bowls.  So basically to break it down for you -

Chapters 1-7 The introductory chapters that deal with preparing the church.

Chapters 8- 11 - the Warning period of the Trumpets, and the woes which have to do with physical and spiritual warfare, "The Beginning of Sorrows."

Chapter 12 -  is what I call a bridge chapter. It signifies that there is going to be a change in the narrative and gives a condensed history of the spiritual principles behind the conflict. It connects us to -

Chapter 13 which is a description of the Beast empire and the antichrist as they are coming into power at this time.

Chapter fourteen shows us the remnant that has been raptured in heaven just before the tribulation at the end of that chapter. 

Chapter 15, is a picture of the overcoming church that has gone through the tribulation and is seen victorious in heaven. If you take the two groups in chapter seven and transport them in your mind to chapters 14 and 15, we see the same two groups. One has been sealed to be protected from it the others go through it.

Chapter 16 begins the bowl judgments, the time of wrath when the church is no longer on earth just before the Lord returns.

Chapters 17 and 18 -  details of this period and Babylon's fall.

Chapter 19 - 22 Jesus returns, He reigns for 1000 years and then God wraps everything up.

There, I have just condensed a three hundred page book in a few paragraphs it's the best I can do.

 

I can appreciate the effort of 6 years study brother but without getting the TIMING correct one has no shot at putting the book of Revelation in proper Chronological Order or tagging the things going on properly. Basically in chapter 1 Jesus gives us the order.

He told John to write the things which he had seen (Rev. 1 Jesus in all of his Glory. The things WHICH ARE (Church Age). and the things which will be HEREAFTER (70th week).

So, Rev. 1 is simply Jesus in his glory. Rev. 2 & 3 is the Church Age and everything after Rev. 4:1 is the Hereafter or 70th week. Yes, the Church is seen in Rev. 4, 5, 7:9-17, but they (we) are seen in Heaven, after the pre trib or Pre 70th (which is more correct) week Rapture. The Seals are Jesus FORETELLING of the coming Wrath of God via the 7 Trumps (SEE ABOVE POST for details). Rev. 7 is the Jews repenting (being sealed) and then fleeing Judea (the 144,000 is simply a CODE for all Israel who repents). We are in the 70th week here, just before God's Wrath starts at the 1260 events, thus Rev. 7 is the 1290 events, where the Jews flee Judea.

Now comes the Judgments that last for 1260 days

Rev. 8, 9 and 16 (really 15&16 are one chapter) gives us all of God's Wrath/Judgments, all the other chapters are Parenthetical Citation Chapters, meaning they all happen  during chapters 8, 9 and 16. They are just different going on than God's Plagues per se. 

Rev. 10 is simply called 7 Thunders but its the 7 Trumps, time will be no more [as we know it] after the 7th Thunder Sounds.

Rev. 11 is unique, it is the Two-Witnesses 1260 day Ministry as ordained by God. BUT.......it starts 1335 days before the Second Coming of Jesus (Which ENDS ALL OF THESE WONDERS). Thus they must die before the Beast dies, because they are the 1335 Blessing that shows up BEFORE the DOTL comes, as shown in Malachi 4:5 and Zech. 13:8-9 and 14:1. So, this chapter is simply about the Two-witnesses ministry. It covers 1260 days, but we are shown that they pray down the 3rd Woe before they die.

Rev. 12 and 13 both covers 1260 days, Satan chases Israel for 1260 days and The Beast rules for 1260 days, so both START via Revelation 8's Asteroid Impact/God's Wrath.

Rev. 14 is The Harvest Chapter. We se Israel (144,000) on Mt. Zion, but thy ae really at the Petra/Bozrah area being protected by God, but Jesus will rule with them for 1000 years, so he is shown Gathering the Wheat (Israel) into his Fathers barn. Likewise we see to Wicked are Harvested in verses 17-20 via the grape harvest. But in a FLASHBACK in vs. 14 we see the Church being Raptured.

Rev. 17 is the Harlot (ALL FALSE RELIGIONS) being Judged over a 1260 day period where they get killed off.

Rev. 18 is Babylon (Whole World) being Judged by God over a 42 month period of time.

Rev. 19, like Rev. 14 covers the full 7 years, we see the Bride in Heaven BEFORE she gets married to the Lamb, then returning with Jesus at the very end. 

So, everything centers around the 1260 middle of the week event.

God Bless

 

[Alive]

3 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The things WHICH ARE (Church Age)

But, what does 'are' relate to? If you take the other words literally in terms of time stamps, why not do the same for 'the things that are'?

This is the sort of inconsistancy that makes me wonder.

[Revelation Man]

27 minutes ago, Alive said:

But, what does 'are' relate to? If you take the other words literally in terms of time stamps, why not do the same for 'the things that are'?

This is the sort of inconsistancy that makes me wonder.

I think Jesus is denoting the Current Age (Time of the Gentiles or the Gentile Church Age). Jews can (of course) be saved during the Church Age, the Disciples started the Church, but the mantle was taken away from Israel as a Nation, and given to the Gentiles, when that time is come full (Rom. 11) the 70th week will then start thereby Israel is back on the clock. A lot of people confuse the time of the Gentiles with Gentile Rule, but Gentiles have always ruled, the TotG can be understood by reading Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11. Paul is showing how God (the Potter) choses the vessel He so pleases to chose, he picked Jacob over Esau before both were born, the Elder shall serve the Younger. (Thus Israel will be under or serve the Gentile Church for a time) But Paul says God did not forsake Israel, their calling (Kingdom Age) is without repentance, thus he says at the very end in Rom. 11 that ALL Israel will be saved, that doesn't mean all Jews, of course, it means Israel as a Nation is saved, Abraham's seed is saved,  but only when the Time of the Gentiles Servitude is over, meaning Israel can not repent until the Church is gone, and that means even the 70th week can not start until the Church is gone and our servitude is complete.

So, the THINGS WHICH ARE is shown in Rev. 2 and 3, the Church Age is given to us via the number Seven (7), which means Divine Completion, I think we have every type church through the 2000 some odd year church age. We see the 7 Spirits and 7 Eyes of Revelation simply means God sees all and is everywhere. So, 7 represents Divine Completion, and thus the things which are equals the Church Age in total. Everything after as can be seen in Rev. 4:1 represents the 70th week or HEEAFTER [the Church Age]. So, in essence, when Jesus spoke to John in 90ish AD, we are in the Church Age, Israel had been toted of via the Diaspora, and of course Jerusalem had already been sacked. The Churches were now God's vehicle to take the Gospel unto the whole world. Thus the THINGS WHICH ARE would have meant the Church Age. 

Hope this explained or helped out. Gotta run to the coffee shop. Been sad and mostly staying at home since my little Bama passed away. He had his 15 year Birthday March 2 then about a week later I found out he had Lymphoma, and he was gone about 6 days later. He slept with me 15 years, I hope all dogs do go to heaven. He was my buddy. 

[Alive]

Just now, Revelation Man said:

I think Jesus is denoting the Current Age (Time of the Gentiles or the Gentile Church Age). Jews can (of course) be saved during the Church Age, the Disciples started the Church, but the mantle was taken away from Israel as a Nation, and given to the Gentiles, when that time is come full (Rom. 11) the 70th week will then start thereby Israel is back on the clock. A lot of people confuse the time of the Gentiles with Gentile Rule, but Gentiles have always ruled, the TotG can be understood by reading Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11. Paul is showing how God (the Potter) choses the vessel He so pleases to chose, he picked Jacob over Esau before both were born, the Elder shall serve the Younger. (Thus Israel will be under or serve the Gentile Church for a time) But Paul says God did not forsake Israel, their calling (Kingdom Age) is without repentance, thus he says at the very end in Rom. 11 that ALL Israel will be saved, that doesn't mean all Jews, of course, it means Israel as a Nation is saved, Abraham's seed is saved,  but only when the Time of the Gentiles Servitude is over, meaning Israel can not repent until the Church is gone, and that means even the 70th week can not start until the Church is gone and our servitude is complete.

So, the THINGS WHICH ARE is shown in Rev. 2 and 3, the Church Age is given to us via the number Seven (7), which means Divine Completion, I think we have every type church through the 2000 some odd year church age. We see the 7 Spirits and 7 Eyes of Revelation simply means God sees all and is everywhere. So, 7 represents Divine Completion, and thus the things which are equals the Church Age in total. Everything after as can be seen in Rev. 4:1 represents the 70th week or HEEAFTER [the Church Age]. So, in essence, when Jesus spoke to John in 90ish AD, we are in the Church Age, Israel had been toted of via the Diaspora, and of course Jerusalem had already been sacked. The Churches were now God's vehicle to take the Gospel unto the whole world. Thus the THINGS WHICH ARE would have meant the Church Age. 

Hope this explained or helped out. Gotta run to the coffee shop. Been sad and mostly staying at home since my little Bama passed away. He had his 15 year Birthday March 2 then about a week later I found out he had Lymphoma, and he was gone about 6 days later. He slept with me 15 years, I hope all dogs do go to heaven. He was my buddy. 

Oh I know. I have heard this for near 50 years. As much as I would like to think it is so, I have to be honest and consider it supposition. The language doesn't say that. It does say the things that 'are'--which is clearly present tense. My thinking may be wrong, but it may be right.