When will the Judgment Seat of Christ (BEMA) occur?

[other one]

16 hours ago, chesed said:

It looks like the OP has hijacked his own thread! I'm not sure if that's permitted on this Forum?

that usually happens by someone at or before the 100th post.   Everyone has had their say and it's time for rabbit holes.  It's actually good for it breaks up the monotony of repeating the same old thing and/or blaming each other for being either dumb or hard headed.

It's actually a good thing because it seems not very many are willing to just let a thread die when there are differences of opinion.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, FreeGrace.

Be careful. You're talking to a brother here! Try not to use the word "you" in your arguments. Use rather the word "one," as in "one should ... ." Don't make it personal!

Got it!

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

I don't find anywhere in this short passage "being absent from the body" means "being in Heaven." To the contrary, I believe that this is talking about the RESURRECTION of our bodies as new bodies, and that THAT is when we are "present with the Lord" Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus").

Seems to me Paul is contrasting whether a believer is physically dead or physically alive.

To be physically alive means to be "absent from the Lord", and to be physically dead means to be "absent from the body" and "at home WITH the Lord".  Am I missing something?

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

If someone wants to "pigeon-hole" someone, one can try to "pigeon-hole" me! I was raised an independent Bible Baptist believer, premillennial and pre-tribulational rapturist all the way. I became a Messianic Jew (I am Jewish, according to my mother's mother). But, I don't hold to any of the major beliefs of either branch, when it comes to prophecy and eschatology. I've GROWN APART from their belief-systems!

I hear you!  When I finally really discovered what Acts 17:11 was about, my eyes were opened.  And when I apply the Berean verification method to the various theologies, I find that Scripture doesn't say what they say.

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

I've come to learn that the Messiah is the One ANOINTED to be the King of Israel, just as David and Shlomoh ("Solomon") were! And, that's what the Greek word Christos means, as well, from which we get our title "Christ!" And, the JOB of every King of Israel is to be the Supreme Court Judge for his Kingdom! If the Messiah reigns for at least 1,000 years, then He will be JUDGING the nations for that time period, whomever is under His jurisdiction! It will be neither BEFORE He comes in some arbitrary 7-year period, nor will it be a quick one-time thing that happens at His arrival! It will occur THROUGHOUT His Kingdom!

Amen!

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

But, to say that His Kingdom only lasts for 1,000 years is to deny the prophecy at His birth!

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel [Gabriel] said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob FOR EVER; and of his kingdom THERE SHALL BE NO END."

One can try to "pigeon-hole" THAT, if one wants to try!

I think the 1,000 years is just a reference to the MK, which is 1,000 years, if Rev 20:4-6 is literal, which I believe it is.  Of course, He will reign throughout eternity on the new earth.

[George]

This thread was reported for personal attacks ... let's keep it clean ... it's okay to disagree in love and debate the subject.  Let's keep it real ... Be blessed!

[Retrobyter]

11 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Seems to me Paul is contrasting whether a believer is physically dead or physically alive.

To be physically alive means to be "absent from the Lord", and to be physically dead means to be "absent from the body" and "at home WITH the Lord".  Am I missing something?

Shabbat shalom, FreeGrace.

Paul is contrasting whether a believer is physically living without the Messiah being physically present, with a believer being physically living with the Messiah having returned!

I believe the "absent from the body" is absent from the group of believers with whom one associates, his or her ekkleesia Kuriokon, his or her called-out group of the Lord, his or her "church."

We're not told to anticipate "going to Heaven." We're encouraged to anticipate "the RESURRECTION!" That's why Paul spent so much time on the topic in 1 Corinthians 15.

9 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I hear you!  When I finally really discovered what Acts 17:11 was about, my eyes were opened.  And when I apply the Berean verification method to the various theologies, I find that Scripture doesn't say what they say.

That's because many are taught to read into the Scriptures what they've been told that they say, rather than reading the Scriptures for what the author is saying to the reader!

9 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Amen!

I think the 1,000 years is just a reference to the MK, which is 1,000 years, if Rev 20:4-6 is literal, which I believe it is.  Of course, He will reign throughout eternity on the new earth.

Absolutely. And, we will reign right along with Him here on this earth. (Revelation 20:6; Luke 19:17, 19) His Kingdom wll be set up much as Jethro instructed Moses to do in Exodus 18. We will be assigned places over which to rule and reign, and our ultimate King will be the Messiah Himself! He will be the King of kings, which is a title that means Emperor. And, the Messiah will be answering to His Father, just as He did during His First Advent.

John 5:19-23 (KJV)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

Just remember that we will reign with Him not only through the Millennium but also in the New Earth. (Revelation 22:3-5).

11 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I hear you!  When I finally really discovered what Acts 17:11 was about, my eyes were opened.  And when I apply the Berean verification method to the various theologies, I find that Scripture doesn't say what they say.

Amen!

I think the 1,000 years is just a reference to the MK, which is 1,000 years, if Rev 20:4-6 is literal, which I believe it is.  Of course, He will reign throughout eternity on the new earth.

Yep! I think you're right!

[FreeGrace]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, FreeGrace.

Paul is contrasting whether a believer is physically living without the Messiah being physically present, with a believer being physically living with the Messiah having returned!

I believe the "absent from the body" is absent from the group of believers with whom one associates, his or her ekkleesia Kuriokon, his or her called-out group of the Lord, his or her "church."

2 Cor 5:6 - Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord.

Paul is telling believers that when we are "in the body" (physically alive) we are away from the Lord.  Believers.

v.8 - We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Here, Paul indicates it is better to be "away from the body" and "at home with the Lord".

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

We're not told to anticipate "going to Heaven." We're encouraged to anticipate "the RESURRECTION!" That's why Paul spent so much time on the topic in 1 Corinthians 15.

Yes, Paul wrote both ch 5 and 15.  However, Paul is confident to say he "would PREFER tro be away from the body and at home with the Lord.  There is no discouragement from anticipating going to heaven.  In fact, Paul was confident to encourage it.  v.8

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

That's because many are taught to read into the Scriptures what they've been told that they say, rather than reading the Scriptures for what the author is saying to the reader!

Yep, that's just what I did.  To be "at home in the body" which means to be "away from the Lord" is about life and death.  When "in the body" we are physically alive.

To be "at home with the Lord" means to be physically dead and WITH the Lord.

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Just remember that we will reign with Him not only through the Millennium but also in the New Earth. (Revelation 22:3-5).

For sure!  Something to anticipate!

[chesed]

On 4/6/2023 at 7:55 AM, FreeGrace said:

Those who believe in a pre-tribulational resurrection and rapture trip to heaven also believe that the Bema will occur in heaven, after the resurrection of "the Church".  However, this is what the Bible says about when it will occur.

I just noticed that the title of this thread asks WHEN will be the Bema seat. But the opening paragraph addresses the WHERE

Now I'm confused.

Where when is where and when where is when, one has then entered another dimension, a dimension of sights and sounds that rapidly approaches the Twilight Zone.

[FreeGrace]

6 hours ago, chesed said:

I just noticed that the title of this thread asks WHEN will be the Bema seat. But the opening paragraph addresses the WHERE

Now I'm confused.

Where when is where and when where is when, one has then entered another dimension, a dimension of sights and sounds that rapidly approaches the Twilight Zone.

The Bible is clear about both the WHEN and the WHERE of the Bema.

It will be WHEN the King returns to earth at the Second Advent.

It will be on earth, where the MK will be.

[chesed]

9 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

The Bible is clear about both the WHEN and the WHERE of the Bema.

It will be WHEN the King returns to earth at the Second Advent.

It will be on earth, where the MK will be.

Whatever,..whenever or wherever.

Edited April 17, 2023 by chesed

[FreeGrace]

20 minutes ago, chesed said:

Whatever,..whenever or wherever.

Is there biblical evidence that the Bema will occur elsewhere?